Can't do woman talk? Am I broken?

[viixie]

Okay so I'm a grown woman but I just find small talk boring I've never felt like I've fit in.

I've just been for a walk with some female friends and I've always felt like I've never fit in with females. I've always felt like the odd one out. They will chat and gossip about people and work and their lives etc and I don't talk as much. I have always been the quieter one but I find this kind of small talk boring. I feel like I'm there because I have to be to try and seem normal rather than to enjoy myself. It's an effort for me to try and fit in in this conversation. I am aware they are probably doing 70% of the chat and I'm meeting them back with 30% if you see what I mean. If I'm in a group of people I will let the others do most of the talking, I find it draining and uninteresting. Of course I pretend to be interested and try to involve myself but inside I find it draining. I'd rather be at home, I much prefer one on one company where I will then feel comfortable being myself and having a chat. I feel like I never really let anyone know or see the real me unless it's someone close like my partner or close family. I feel I am never fully relaxed or myself with anyone else.

Am I broken? Anyone else?

‘I really struggled with social chit chat for years as l had no idea how to do it because it didn't happen at home, and my Dad's voice in my head was telling me it was all vapid nonsense anyway.’

My mum and I were shaking hands with all the people offering us condolences at my grandmother’s burial, only to find my dad had gone because my mum and I were ‘always chatting to people.’ We had to drive around the cemetery in the hearse to find him.

@speakout

Why should we have to fake it to any huge extent?

I will make as much small talk as it takes not to offend, but I prefer to lead an authentic life.
I try not to spend large periods of time making banal converastion with anyone.
Should I force myself?
How authentic is that way to lead a life?

Agreed. There's a self-sufficiency, too, in having no problem at all with your own company.

A close friend of mine is single and was understandably lonely during lockdown so added a number of her friends to a WhatsApp group who meet for occasional Zoom evenings. I love her dearly or I'd never have agreed as I am not one for friendship groups. And I wouldn't admit it anywhere else, but I find it hard work.

I could chat for hours with just her. And I don't dislike her friends at all. We just barely know each other and have little in common. I'd prefer not to do it, but whilst I've sucked it up for her sake I won't be continuing after lockdown ends. I feel like a phony, and like you, I don't care for that. At least not in my leisure time.

Faking it is ok as far as work is concerned. Networking is important and fortunately it's made me a few good friends. I'm not as confident as I look, though!

@LibertyMole

‘Apologies. 49% of women could draw the chain compared to 75% of men. So not outliers then. But still a difference.’

And that was among non-cyclists.

Overall, about 70% of women and 85% can draw a picture of a functioning bicycle.

Even if it had only been 50%, do you not think that you must be working under an enormously sexist set of assumptions if you think that women who can draw an everyday functioning object are such a tiny minority that they are outliers?

You’re combining the total results of cyclists/non-cyclists in the study and assuming that the ratio is the same for males vs females. The author however comments that more men cycle regularly than women. So there will be more male cyclists and more female non-cyclists - making your overall total percentages inaccurate. The author did not total up her male/female results for that reason. So again - while outlier was the wrong term (again, apologies), there is certainly a difference. The author’s exact words are: “huge sex differences”. It’s just one study. I’m sure there may be others which will contradict it. But it’s really not nonsense to say that men and women (as a group) think and converse in different ways. Doesn’t mean one is better than the other but it’s perfectly understandable that some people may prefer one style to the other.

‘You’re combining the total results of cyclists/non-cyclists in the study and assuming that the ratio is the same for males vs females.’

No, I’m not. I am referring to the Lawson study as you provided an imag not a link, so I can’t know the overall figures for the study as you didn’t provide them.

It is absolutely sexist nonsense to suggest that only a tiny number of women can draw a functioning bicycle, which is what you said. To believe such a thing is misogyny.

Which still does puzzle me why OP would describe what her good friends talk about as ‘small talk’. Small talk to me is something that you usually do with unfamiliar people to break the ice using safe topics of conversation (weather, locality, travel etc.) OR something you do at the beginning of meeting a good friend as an exchange of pleasantries for a small amount of time before you launch into more intimate conversations. I think she might be using the word small talk for (what she deems) superficial talk.

I agree. I asked earlier what exactly is "small talk", because the impression I am getting from some of the posts on this thread is that it is basically conversation that the poster doesn't want to take part in.

People don't just launch into deep, philosophical discussions the minute they meet a complete stranger (maybe if they are drunk they do). I suppose it defies normal social convention not to make at least some kind of small talk when you meet someone new, otherwise how do you break the ice?

@LibertyMole

‘You’re combining the total results of cyclists/non-cyclists in the study and assuming that the ratio is the same for males vs females.’

No, I’m not. I am referring to the Lawson study as you provided an imag not a link, so I can’t know the overall figures for the study as you didn’t provide them.

It is absolutely sexist nonsense to suggest that only a tiny number of women can draw a functioning bicycle, which is what you said. To believe such a thing is misogyny.

I’m not going to repeat myself. You can easily Google the study. Rebecca Lawson, drawing a bicycle. I already apologised for saying that only outlier females can draw a bicycle but according to the study, the fact remains that significantly fewer can do it correctly than males can.

Do you ever look at people talking and wonder why they find the conversation interesting ?
All the time. I sit there thinking what's the point of talking about this shite.

‘I’m not going to repeat myself.
You can easily Google the study. Rebecca Lawson, drawing a bicycle.
I already apologised for saying that only outlier females can draw a bicycle but according to the study, the fact remains that significantly fewer can do it correctly than males can.’

No, I am quoting from the Rebecca Lawson study, peer reviewed and published research. You have put up a screenshot of Dave Atkinson’s work on his blog, which is not peer reviewed or published.

And I don’t think it is really about apologising. It is about wondering, given we live in a time and a country where every girl studied physics until the age of 16, how you could have believed that understanding basic functions of a bike was something only exceptional women could do.

Because it isn’t just you. It isn’t a matter of personal blame. There will be many other people who believe women can’t learn plumbing skills, or be electricians, or succeed in Chemistry or Engineering.

And of course there are sex differences, and we’re not sure why, but they are generally two massively overlapping bell curves, not abilities that barely overlap.

I may also be in a bad mood from watching all three series of the Handmaid’s Tale in one week.

Your problem is simply your disdain for 'females'

Directly from Rebecca Lawson’s study.
I don’t think anyone believes that women can’t do the things you’ve said above.
Just that men (on average) may think about certain things more.
While it was fair to challenge my “outlier” misquote, I think I’ve already corrected it and apologised several times. Unfortunately this dialogue has turned what was an interesting thread into something really turgid.

God I love small talk and lockdown has made me realise quite how much I need those little everyday interactions and conversations. I’ve even loved being back on the school run
There is always a tone of superiority whenever being introverted is discussed, like us chit chat types never read books or think original thoughts however life is, in my opinion, a whole lot easier and nicer when you have lots of friendly acquaintances whom you can give and take favours and help each other out. Life is very much who you know, so don’t look down on us small talkers!

There is always a tone of superiority whenever being introverted is discussed, like us chit chat types never read books or think original thoughts

I certainly get that impression from some of the posts on the many threads on this subject recently.

I wonder if some of it is just a little bit of envy that some people can effortlessly chat about "nothing" to complete strangers?

Small talk is the lubrication of communication, stop being such a snob

Corona, I read the study and quoted from it when I first started talking to you. I have no idea why you are now screenshotting random parts from it when you were earlier arguing from a totally different study.

As I have said, I don’t think need you to apologise at all. I do think you should think about why you could ever have believed it to be true in the first place.

If I read a study and I misremembered it as being that Irish people who can explain what electrons are are outliers, I would question whether I had an underlying prejudice against Irish people, as it is such an implausible study result.

@Poppercot

God I love small talk and lockdown has made me realise quite how much I need those little everyday interactions and conversations. I’ve even loved being back on the school run There is always a tone of superiority whenever being introverted is discussed, like us chit chat types never read books or think original thoughts however life is, in my opinion, a whole lot easier and nicer when you have lots of friendly acquaintances whom you can give and take favours and help each other out. Life is very much who you know, so don’t look down on us small talkers!

What pleasure do you get out of it? Can you explain?

There is always a tone of superiority whenever being introverted is discussed

I don't think it's superiority.

Society largely encourages and rewards loudness and extrovertedness, so it's understandable that introverts will feel defensive.

@tangerinelollipop

There is always a tone of superiority whenever being introverted is discussed

I don't think it's superiority.

Society largely encourages and rewards loudness and extrovertedness, so it's understandable that introverts will feel defensive.

I don’t think society rewards loudness or extrovertedness at all, more like it rewards confidence, good social skills and tactfulness/diplomacy in social situations.

You can be an introvert and still have confidence and good social skills. I know several. There are many introverts out there who though they may prefer less of it are still confident in social situations, interactions and conversations.

Enjoying your own company doesn’t mean you can’t or don’t enjoy the company of others.

What pleasure do you get out of it? Can you explain?

I know you didn't ask me, but I get a lot of pleasure from little communications - a chat with my lovely neighbour over the garden fence or exchanging a pleasantry with the checkout operator in Tesco for example.

Or the other day when walking in the sunshine, and a very old lady just smiled at me and said what a lovely day it was. She made me feel happy, and I'd like to think that I made her feel happy because I spoke back to her. For all I know I might have been the only person who spoke to her that day.

It lifts the spirits when someone is nice to me and makes a nice comment. TBH I'm struggling to understand why someone would find any negativity in that.

How would you have responded to the old lady?

That’s really nice Ivy.

It makes a big difference to people who feel lonely, disrespected or isolated.

@LibertyMole

Corona, I read the study and quoted from it when I first started talking to you. I have no idea why you are now screenshotting random parts from it when you were earlier arguing from a totally different study.

As I have said, I don’t think need you to apologise at all. I do think you should think about why you could ever have believed it to be true in the first place.

If I read a study and I misremembered it as being that Irish people who can explain what electrons are are outliers, I would question whether I had an underlying prejudice against Irish people, as it is such an implausible study result.

It’s not a random screenshot. It’s the relevant table which sums up the difference between males and females. As well you know.

Random chatting makes people feel good. DS2 loves to chat ( l know, he's a bloke and everything! Shocker ... ) when he worked at Sainsburys his checkout queue was always twice the size of everyone elses because he took ages shooting the breeze with all the old chaps - his supervisor was lovely, she said she hadn't the heart to tell him off because all the old boys made a beeline for him to have a natter, but she did used to stick him on the self-scans during the busy times to stop the whole system grinding to a halt while he talked beards with someone for 20 minutes ...

YABU to describe small talk as 'women talk', there are plenty of women that talk about deeper things than what's going on in their life, gossip etc. It's not a gendered issue. It's who you choose to surround yourself with.

Im not sure the issue is women talk. You said you let them do the vast majority of the talking. You dont like to open up and let people get to close to you and people dont know you, and you dont find their chat interesting. Some people are superficial but loads of women arent, despite the stereotypes.
What sort of stuff do you like to talk about?