Can't do woman talk? Am I broken?

[viixie]

Okay so I'm a grown woman but I just find small talk boring I've never felt like I've fit in.

I've just been for a walk with some female friends and I've always felt like I've never fit in with females. I've always felt like the odd one out. They will chat and gossip about people and work and their lives etc and I don't talk as much. I have always been the quieter one but I find this kind of small talk boring. I feel like I'm there because I have to be to try and seem normal rather than to enjoy myself. It's an effort for me to try and fit in in this conversation. I am aware they are probably doing 70% of the chat and I'm meeting them back with 30% if you see what I mean. If I'm in a group of people I will let the others do most of the talking, I find it draining and uninteresting. Of course I pretend to be interested and try to involve myself but inside I find it draining. I'd rather be at home, I much prefer one on one company where I will then feel comfortable being myself and having a chat. I feel like I never really let anyone know or see the real me unless it's someone close like my partner or close family. I feel I am never fully relaxed or myself with anyone else.

Am I broken? Anyone else?

@Morgoth

Apparently a group of men that don’t know each other that well will completely forgo the organic social foreplay of small talk and jump immediately into conversations about Faust, Chopin and Nuclear Fission but women only talk about Love Island, hosiery or their child getting a peanut stuck up their nose.

Everyone’s different but as a cohort men are more likely to be interested in and to talk about things and women to be interested in and to talk about people. This study (by a female psychologist) showed that when asked to draw a bicycle men were more likely to draw the bicycle correctly. Women were more likely to draw a person on it. Not EVERY man and woman - but enough that there was a definite difference of approach. Also while both men and women may talk about Chopin, the context would be different. Far more women than men attend live classical concerts whereas far more men than women buy and study the actual music. I’m sure all of this is reflected in the typical male vs female conversation. Both types are valid. Many women and men are outliers and prefer the other way. But to pretend there’s no difference AT ALL isn’t living in reality land.

Here

Misogyny means hatred of women (Cambridge dictionary). Saying that women as a group often have different types of conversation to men isn’t the same as saying you hate women. I’m aware of the definition thanks. The whole definition, not just the bit about hatred of women. And I still think you’re failing to recognise an example of it, particularly in relation to the second part of that definition.

This has been a brilliant thread, and I agree with so many points on it.

What exactly is “small talk”?
Beyond talking about the weather and the traffic, surely anything else is what is important to the person talking isn’t it?

There is nothing wrong with being quiet or an introvert or simply preferring your own company, but I am getting the impression from some of the posters on this thread that what some people class as “small talk” is what other people class as conversation.

So, do some people class anything that doesn’t interest them as “small talk”? I don’t watch soaps or reality TV (except for Bake Off and MasterChef), but I don’t look down upon people who watch Coronation Street and Love Island, for example, with disdain or class them as “small talk”. It is just conversation that doesn’t interest me.

I’m curious to know how that those who hate “small talk” make friends or meet their partners. Surely, they don’t launch straight into a philosophical, intellectual discussion the minute they first make their acquaintance do they?

And why is “small talk” or trivial conversation looked down upon with such disdain? I really dislike the way that some posters sound so superior about it when they say “I hate small talk”. In many cases it is just an ice breaker. It is OK to not want to talk to people about things that don’t interest you, but it isn’t OK to be smug and superior about not wanting to pass the time of day with a lonely and elderly friendly neighbour.

@viixie it sounds like these “friends” just aren’t very interesting to you, so why do you bother with them?

I must have a small mind because I love talking about people , although I also talk about ideas and events.

As an aside, why have there been so many posts on this type of subject recently? Is lockdown getting to everyone?

@Sn0tnose

Misogyny means hatred of women (Cambridge dictionary). Saying that women as a group often have different types of conversation to men isn’t the same as saying you hate women. I’m aware of the definition thanks. The whole definition, not just the bit about hatred of women. And I still think you’re failing to recognise an example of it, particularly in relation to the second part of that definition.

Ha, ok. The prejudice part - which was later added to the definition. I’ve attached the definition of prejudice. But my previous post, above, shows some evidence that men (as a group) and women (as a group) tend to have different ways of thinking about things. So saying that they tend to have different conversation styles is not prejudicial. Or misogynistic.

Why do some women HATE that men and women (as a group) have differences?
That, to me, is misogynistic.

@Coronawireless men and women are different. I think people are objecting to op labelling women talk as trivial talk. Well that's what I objected to anyway.

@Wearywithteens

This reminds me of the self-congratulatory thread about ‘quiet’ people the other day. What I learned from that was that quiet people silently judge and label loud, annoying, trivial, self absorbed, braying, shallow, boring extroverts but at the same time expect those same people to empathise that a ‘quiet’ person isn’t interested in them, doesn’t want to pass the time with them, finds them rather silly and will happily offload all the social spade work in a group situation to them.

Quiet people, unlike annoying loud extroverts, read ‘books’ and have ‘thoughts’. They watch the news and have ‘views’ about things. But not about low brow things like other people or, God forbid, anything on TV. No, they think about superior things like science, philosophy and the world. Annoying loud extroverts wouldn’t know about that though, they’re too busy being annoying and loud about their self-absorbed trivial non-important jibber jabber. I also learned that quiet people find it hard to make friends or be accepted in groups. I wonder why?

Op - there are good psychological, social and anthropological reasons for what you see as irrelevant gossip and small talk. I think you should find different friends who meet your specific social requirements.

good post

I can't bear these type of threads either. very iM nOt LiKe oThEr gIrLs.

This thread has confused me so much. mostly because the op has not come back and said what she would like to talk about?

My friends and I can talk about so many different topics, yes what we watch on tv but loads of more "intellectual" topics to.

The people who say conversations with friends bore them and are uninteresting arent trying hard enough with their friends imo. One friend of mine is in the beauty business which is not something which I'm into but hearing her passion is lovely. But when I do get bored we can change the topic

As for gossiping, the men in my life are 10 times worse then the women. I have so little trust in the men in my life after hearing them gossip and snipe

Anytime @knittingaddict 😁

Why do some women HATE that men and women (as a group) have differences?
That, to me, is misogynistic.

Ffs, really?! 🙄 I know I shouldn’t bite, but I’m trying really hard not to eat the Black Forest gateau in the fridge, so I will. I obviously can’t speak for anyone else, but I absolutely do not hate that men and women have differences. I completely accept that many women are different from many men in many ways. Of course we are. And I appreciate those differences. What I don’t like is that inane chatter about tv programmes and neighbourhood gossip is classed as ‘woman talk’ and anyone who would rather have a more intellectual conversation is asking whether they’re broken because they aren’t able to ‘woman’ properly. That is misogyny. You vehemently disagree and that’s fair enough. I can’t be arsed trying to convince you; we’d both be wasting the others time.

@Coronawireless I agree with you completely. There are major differences to the way each sex interacts socially and the content of the most popular types of conversation. Anthropology and evolutionary psychology of course shows disparity. I was just making an exaggerated comment as a joke in response to the banal commentary that women only talk about superficial matters and that the average “depth” of male conversation is significantly larger and that apparently men forego small talk altogether - which of course isn’t true as it’s a natural evolutionary social mechanism which acts as a normal conversational lubricant when you talk to someone for the first time.

I’m more perplexed by OPs use of the word small talk around good friends she hangs out with regularly as normally any ‘small talk’ would subside with good friends after the first 10 mins or so when usual pleasantries have been exchanged. I think by small talk she means things she doesn’t find interesting to talk about - which is a different matter.

In my teens I felt I had to act 'deep' and was a goth and didn't like small talk.

But as I got into my mid 20s I started to really enjoy it.

I got some mental health issues I had treated, so chatting to others and not saying the wrong thing becaume slightly easier. IDK if that's something that might help you @viixie ?

My late mil ( whose favorite conversation was herself) used to say ' talk is cheap ' .
Not entirely sure what she meant there, but might have been a war time thing! She certainly didn't stop chatting.
I read a book once about a boy who didn't talk at all : it was only fiction, but it was unnerving He became a master criminal! Can you imagine if everyone stopped talking ?..
I say, bring on the small talk myself.
(Even if Mrs Roosevelt thought we are not intelligent enough or whatever! )

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying people are barking if they don't like small talk, just that that was something that helped me with it.

Which begs the question - what would the OP prefer to talk about instead? Conversational variety is good in any friendship. OP, if these friends have never conversed with you about anything you’ve ever found interesting or enjoyable then how did you become friends with them in the first place?

observing differences is not misogynistic. deciding that one group has x characteristic, and one group has y characteristic, and that the characteristic belonging to the group that holds more social, political and economic power than the other group must be inherently superior is misogynistic.

I too find this thread very confusing.
Why are you even friends?
With my friends we talk fun gibberish, and also very deep topics.

My late mil ( whose favorite conversation was herself) used to say ' talk is cheap.' Not entirely sure what she meant there, but might have been a war time thing! She certainly didn't stop chatting.

@the80sweregreat They mean it's easy to say something but actions are more telling. Like if a bloke says he loves someone but treats them like shit.

very iM nOt LiKe oThEr gIrLs.

ah yes, the cool girls.

Im not big on small talk but I love people. Small talk is a necessary evil in order to get close enough to some one that you can share a deeper connection, love, friendship, a baring of souls, the comfort to drop the social facades and talk about those deep ideas having gaged whether they are compatible, interesting, etc. If you talk about love island because you are passionate about love island and somebody shuts it down, then why would you share your opinions on the meaning of life or the solution to all humanities ailments, or whatever. You wouldn't would you? The person can't be bothered to give you the space to be yourself and have your interests, even more so if they don't want to talk about themselves or their interests either, and so you don't get to the heart and soul underneath. When somebody tells me they love love island I try to listen to the why? I try to listen to their excitement and joy and be happy for them. Not condescendingly tell them I'm not interested in love island. That just tells them I'm not interested in what they have to say. So why would they then tel me about their other interests or passions? They wouldn't would they. And then you find that you never have that meeting of minds, you never find out your commonalities. You just decide you are not like other people. We are all so much more alike than we are different. So instead of hearing "love island" hear "I am your friend and I want to talk to you about what brings me joy" and when they are done talking respond with whatever brings you joy and confirm they too are your friend. That's small talk. It says we are both people here on this day, in this same weather, with these same needs for joy and hope, with these same daily occurrences and annoyances. I am here, you are here, we are together and that is a good thing. It is connection and humanity, and it can take a lot of energy and effort sometimes but it is so worth it. And if it isn't? Then you can try and be an island by yourself. Nobody is stopping you

‘I’m sure all of this is reflected in the typical male vs female conversation. Both types are valid. Many women and men are outliers and prefer the other way.’

Women who draw pictures of functioning bicycles or study music are not outliers.

But maybe I just understand what an outlier is because I secretly have a ‘man’ brain.

I have that. It's my autism.

Trick is to hang out with people with shared interests.

My most eminently qualified friends and family abhor having to talk shop when they leave work. They usually want to talk shite! It can take me an hour to wind down from 'work mode' when I've finished my day, as your mind is still occupied with shit from work. When my mind relaxes, Christ but I do not want to discuss anything too taxing on the brain.

This 'superiority complex' that some people have is fucking ridiculous. If your brain was actually exercised at work daily, you might find that it needs a bit of light relief.

In my experience, the only people who discussed 'high brow' issues were unemployed, unqualified dope heads.

My friend loves Love island and used to talk about it! She was disappointed that I had no idea who Jack and Danny were , but I just laughed along because I watch Eastenders and I know she wouldn't know who Sharon and Keanu are! We just take the Mickey out of each other. It's not a biggie is it?
People I worry about are the ones who have no idea who is running the country or the woman on pointless who had to answer ' name a Labour politician' and said ' Boris Johnson' because he sounded ' important' !
They need a bit of small talk ! Lol