Reporting your son

[Aqua55]

Looking at the rape culture in schools, and having a 7 month ds myself, i was wondering how many parents would report their school aged sons to the Police if they suspected or knew that they had committed a sexual assault.

So there's a "rape culture" in schools?

Is this actual reality or mainly a creation of the media?

Really cannot believe the level of stupid I am reading.

@ReginaFalange85, This is a conversation about what you, as a parent, would do if your school-aged child committed a sexual assault against another child.

The OP has a baby. It’s safe to assume that the people who have responded to the thread have children of a range of ages. Mine are teens, some posters have said their children are still toddlers. Probably some of those responding don’t have any children (or don’t have children yet). It’s a discussion about a hypothetical situation. A ‘thought experiment’ if you like.

Although some of those posting have been through this exact situation and post from personal experience.

@ReginaFalange85 what are you not following here?

*I second the person who responded to this comment. And there is a lot of it about on Mumsnet at the moment: it's an emerging narrative and it's derailed a fair few threads about sexual violence and abuse.

This minimising of rape - a horrible, invasive, humiliating psychologically damaging crime - together with a culture of victim-blaming and on occasion active tormenting of women who say they have been rape victims, has shown an extremely ugly undertow of this site over past weeks. I won't ask if these people think about what they are writing as they write it, as I'm convinced they know exactly what they're doing. And the narrative usually arises from a position of NAMALT, 'women are just as bad', and taking issue with this position makes you a 'man hater'.**

Yes, I’ve noticed that. I feel like every time I speak about my experiences of abuse, I have to clarify that I don’t think all men are like that and that I’m not a man hater. When it’s totally irrelevant to the thread, as it’s already been spelt out several times.

It never used to be like this, it makes me very sad, as it used to be a safe place for women to talk about their experiences of sexual violence.

@Ncforthistoday

Sadly no second guessing and no regrets. The victim was also one of my dc.... No peace though.

My goodness. That's just heartbreaking. You have immense strength.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

Girls can be just as horrible as boys, to my mind, and psychological bullying is every bit as damaging as any other type.

Response:

^Clearly stated by someone who has never been through rape.
That is perhaps the worst thing I have ever read on Mumsnet. Congratulations^.

I second the person who responded to this comment. And there is a lot of it about on Mumsnet at the moment: it's an emerging narrative and it's derailed a fair few threads about sexual violence and abuse.

This minimising of rape - a horrible, invasive, humiliating psychologically damaging crime - together with a culture of victim-blaming and on occasion active tormenting of women who say they have been rape victims, has shown an extremely ugly undertow of this site over past weeks. I won't ask if these people think about what they are writing as they write it, as I'm convinced they know exactly what they're doing. And the narrative usually arises from a position of NAMALT, 'women are just as bad', and taking issue with this position makes you a 'man hater'.

I've been a victim of rape twice, both times at the age of fifteen, and endured sustained bullying (at the hands of both mean girls and boys) and I know exactly which of these incidents were the most damaging. To try and lump them into to the same category of problem is repulsive. And I'll call this type of behaviour out every fucking time I see it. It's not acceptable. (And says something very ugly about the agenda of the kinds of people posting it).

I've come under sustained attacks from two or three posters - perhaps the same poster, their style of expression and bellicose tone are strikingly familiar - for taking this stance. MNHQ are aware (and take a dim view of it).

It's taken me the thick end of 25 years to be able to speak about this: in part thanks to #MeToo, and I won't be put off by some piece of work hiding under an alias on MN. Talking about it might help someone else. Staying silent helps only the perpetrators.

And who, exactly, stands to gain what by keeping the status quo precisely the same as it always was? I will not be bullied into stopping writing about these experiences.

I was sexually assaulted by a woman and for years I didn’t realise it was even sexual assault because she used to give me a bath when I was a child. I imagine there are millions of kids who have experienced what I did - it just doesn’t get properly investigated, or worse brushed under the carpet because you’re accusing a woman.

What do you want from me? Admittance I have been raped? Okay. Have it. To say all boys have those tendencies. No.

That's what happen when men infiltrate a predominantly women group.

They tend to derail and hijack the place, trying to make our voices smaller. There's something about an all women group, men have a hard time with.

I refuse to say namalt. They're not going to police my words or thoughts. Period.

Wasn’t there a drama on tv a couple of years again about a Mother and son in this sort of situation and she wouldn’t believe he could do it?
Hermione Norris was in it as the Mum ( possibly called “Some Mothers Son”?)

I was sexually assaulted by a woman and for years I didn’t realise it was even sexual assault because she used to give me a bath when I was a child. I imagine there are millions of kids who have experienced what I did - it just doesn’t get properly investigated, or worse brushed under the carpet because you’re accusing a woman.

That is terrible. I do agree that the misconception that women don't ever abuse children is dangerous. In terms of sexual offenses, statistically it's rare. The same goes for men who are the victims of this sort of crime at the hands of other men. It seems to be even more shaming and taboo, and that's wrong.

I think it gets rugswept whoever you accuse, sadly. Society is more comfortable with the belief that victims are liars than that perpetrators are actually guilty. And the earlier in life it happens, the harder it is to process and the more difficult a job you'll have to unpick it in therapy. I'm so sorry

NB. I understand where you are coming from. I always understood that the violent gang rape I experienced as a 15-year old was unmitigated rape.

The other instance, at the same age, I only recognised was rape this year. That's knocking on thirty YEARS later. But as someone who's been through extensive therapy for trauma I know that's how it operates (although I'm stunned I could have actually missed this realisation, given the knowledge I now have). But this is why it often takes victims decades to come forward. Those who don't understand this say we are 'jumping on the bandwagon'. As if they could possibly know.

@CockneyCutie

Yes I remember that drama. She did refuse to believe that he’d killed the girl, right through but then in the end she did. It ended with her going with her son to the police station to confess.

That’s what I would want to do if I discovered that one of my DDs had committed a serious crime. It would be hard, as they’re both adopted and I know how damaged DD1 (12) in particular has been as a result, DD2 (9) less so.

@RantyAnty

That's what happen when men infiltrate a predominantly women group.

They tend to derail and hijack the place, trying to make our voices smaller. There's something about an all women group, men have a hard time with.

I refuse to say namalt. They're not going to police my words or thoughts. Period.

Brava. I'm right with you.

What do you want from me?

Honestly just wanted you to say what it was that you were struggling to understand @ReginaFalange85. The way you were posting made it seem that you were mystified about the topic of the thread as you kept mentioning the OP’s baby.

I’m really sorry to hear you were raped; that’s awful.

I’m also sad that you feel that this thread is saying that all boys have the tendency to commit rape. I don’t think I’ve seen that here.

Personally, I believe all humans- every single one of us- is capable of committing awful acts, even murder. Most of us don’t, thankfully. I have never found it helpful to ‘other’ perpetrators of crimes as if they are monsters/evil etc because that just makes everyone feel ‘it could never happen to me’.

Humans are fallible, and sometimes behave in appalling and cruel ways.

My DD was at nursery, primary and secondary school with a boy who lives in our village. My son had been friendly with him for a while and we knew the family a little.

When they were around 15 I saw how disrespectful he was to girls (sluts, whores etc) as he was an FB friend of DDs and I monitored her account. I went to their door and told his Mum as I thought she should know. She said nothing and closed the door.

FF several years and DD has had lots of mental health issues, depression, anxiety and minor self-harm. She's nearly finished her degree, but she's had a lot of support and counselling. Until last year I didn't know the root of it.

She disclosed that this boy had seriously assaulted her on the school bus on the way to school one day. They were 16 and the only seniors on the top of the bus. She also told me that when he had been a member of a 'party' group at school, at least 3 other girls had said that he'd had sex with them while they were drunk. Another girl had been inappropriately touched in a classroom. None of these girls reported what was happening to an adult as they were intimidated and/or were scared of being found out to have been drunk. He hung around with groups of girls and picked them off as he pleased.

I drove DD to the Police station and she made a report immediately. We know that's now been charged with at least two sexual assaults, but we don't know whether the girls who were raped made statements.

He's an Officer in the military now and is on bail awaiting a trial for several sex crimes.

There are things I would report my own kid for, but not many things, and whilst ive talked to all of my kids about consent and do everything I can to bring them up with feminist principles, im very much a family first kind of person. There would be a lot of variables I guess, but calling the police on your own child is huge imo. Absolute last resort if I really thought they were a danger to themselves or others

I refuse to say namalt. They're not going to police my words or thoughts. Period

Damn right, especially when NEVER in my life have I seen a man being careful to say Not All Women.

I don't have children, but I wonder what the mothers of the numerous men who have inflicted various acts of sexual harrassment and coercion on me would think of their behaviour.

@Mumofasadgirl what a terrible story. Your DD is a warrior for having reported this; I know that is so hard to do.

Parents of sons, how do WE tackle such a horrible, insidious culture and what's an appropriate age at which to do this? Perhaps it starts off with small things, like ensuring that at age 8 (the usual cut-off point) they no longer us an all-female changing room, with an age-appropriate explanation as to why. Or to ensure that they're not raised to believe women will wait on them hand and foot, or that any objectification of women is discussed and nixed should it ever come up in conversation.

How else do parents approach this and at what point do you think it's beneficial to do so? (Always taking into account that we are not raising our sons in isolation from the rest of society).

And do people think the sunlight given to this issue in the wake of fourth-wave feminism, #MeToo, and now the reports emerging from our schools, will ever make a difference, or make this as socially unacceptable as other forms of prejudice?

The 'Not My Nigel' brand of denial is the last thing that's going to help with this. OP - thank you for posting this thread, it's valuable.

Any advice welcome, as

Yes I would and I will bring my boys up with them knowing that too. There is no excuse for this behaviour.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks I personally think boys need to be raised to have more empathy too. Girls are encouraged in this a lot, to think of others, consider people’s needs, be kind etc, to the point that it sometimes goes too far. I think boys need some more of this, to consider other people’s feelings, not always put themselves first, etc. They need to be encouraged see women and girls as full human beings, because society will often give them the opposite message.

@cinammonbuns

This thread is stomach churning. The amount of people who would protect their children even if the committed a heinous crime is disgusting but not shocking.

Absolutely. Seems they wouldn't give a shit if their sons had destroyed someone's life. Gross.

Yes I'd report and hopefully disown with a heavy heart.
Similarly if they murdered or tortured anyone unless self defence.
In saying all that if DD murdered a man most likely in self defence I'd dig out the patio or take the blame.
Double standards.
Wouldn't support DF/Dbro either.

I do not get why people are surprised by the responses. It is better than the virtue signalling you get from a lot of posters or people in modern society today. Everyone can preach morality and have a strong opinion of other people's children online, face to face etc. It is the problem with society anyone can say #bekind but from my experience, many people who say or promote this are hypocrites and just do it for views, followers and make people believe they are a good person.

Similarly, anyone can here say "if my child did this they would get reported straight to the police" that is the right noble thing to do no one disagrees with that. But my question is how can you guarantee that you if your child was the rapist you would do it? For many of us it has not happen so how can we 100 percent be sure we would do the right thing? It goes back to the fact that we see our children in a different light even if they were a rapist ,murderer etc we still see them as our little child.

What people need to realize that "if this happens" and a situation actually occurring involving your child being the rapist will have different outcomes. That is a fact. Yes we see some parents doing the right thing but many won't also. At least they were honest and not virtue signalling like many people on the internet. Should they be proud they said that? Of course not. But at least they were honest and did not say an answer what everyone wants them to and what they felt. Of course is it the wrong decision and any parent who does that can have that living on their conscience.