Panicking that we cannot afford this baby and we will not cope.

[Redrosesblue]

I have just found out I'm pregnant and completly freaking out. DD has just celebrated her first birthday this week and this is a completely unplanned pregnancy.
We always planned to start TTC for DC2 when DD was at least 2 years 3 months so that by the time the baby arrived, she would definitely be entitled to her 30 free hours childcare. I earn good enough money and am the breadwinner. DH is self employed and his income has been hit hard by Covid (perfectly timed for mat leave with DD1 to start) and I ended up going back to work much earlier than planned to make sure we were okay.
There's no way we can afford double the childcare. DD will only be 1 year 8 months when this baby arrives so even if I take her out of childcare for my mat leave, she'll still be far off 3 by the time I need to go back to work which means double the childcare fees! I am terrified. We cannot afford this baby. I also suffered very badly with hyperemesis last time and I don't know how I will cope. DD is still breastfed to sleep and DH can't get her to sleep on his own. There's so many reasons why this is just not a good time! I'm so scared. I don't want to have to consider termination and never ever thought I would need to but I am so worried that there's no way we can make this work.

Could you compress your hours into 4 days for a while so you’re only paying for 4 days’ childcare rather than 5?

In fact, that's what I'd do. Finish nursery when you start 2nd mat leave. Take her to loads of groups while you're off, then start them both with a childminder and sign your eldest up for a free preschool which the childminder will take her to.

Im so sorry you face such a difficult predicament OP. You’ve had lots of practical advice, but just wanted to stick my angry woman hat on and say it’s so sad and disgraceful that our country’s crippling early years costs put you in this position. In most other countries in Europe at least, you just wouldn’t be facing this decision. I’m constantly amazed that the absolute state of our (lack of) early years funding isn’t way way higher on the political agenda... but then hey it’s just women and children isn’t it?!

I would definitely pull DD out of nursery whilst on maternity leave and start them both at a childminders when the time comes.

I've read all your posts OP and seriously don't understand why you cannot consider terminating this pregnancy and cutting yourselves some slack. It sounds as if you are in for a grindingly difficult time otherwise.

You do have options, termination being one and it's definitely a consideration however if your highest concern was childcare costs whilst both in private day nursery, you will need to also consider that schools often run 38 weeks, therefore most parents with multiple children will need to consider childcare in those 12 weeks holidays also schools are often 6 hour days, therefore you will need to consider drop off and collections and ime any plans you formulate need to be long term. I would suggest your husband builds his business around weekends and takes a larger role around childcare while you maintain working a 4 day week and any days one of you are home, you avoid nursery costs. I would also consider moving if you are living very rurally, this by it's very nature will be more costly as you are more than likely running 2 cars and both have sizeable commutes if needing 10 hrs childcare a day.
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@Yaya26

Don’t shoot me for raising it anyone - sick leave for an extra few months at the end of your mat leave for DC2? Most women in my work tend to lengthen their mat leave this way sometimes for genuine reasons- exhaustion if they have a couple of young kids - not yet sleeping through the night etc. We get 6 months full pay sick leave.

Jeez no. Every mum of two little ones could claim this.

Just for a cost comparison my DD went to a childminder from the age of 1 till she started school. We paid £4.50 an hour.
Plus she was totally flexible and helpful if we were late to get to DD (train issues etc)
Once DD hit 3 our childcare was also actually free!! We didn't have to pay top ups or for certain hours or for lunch.

She did 30hrs and we paid zero. If she'd been at nursery we would've still been paying something!

Yes your husband could commit to one day's childcare a week and maybe take an evening shift delivering or something just to tide you over. It will be really hard but at least then you're done and they'll both be at school close in age

Yes I did the same with a childminder. Dc1 was £4.50, dc2 was £4 (about 4.5 years ago) until she took dc1 to preschool for me and picked him up and it was all free for him. I also only paid the hours we needed. Something like 8.30am - 4pm. And I chose a childminder near work to save on commuting costs.

2 dc doesn't always mean double the childcare costs. When my dc were smaller I always fit a discount t on childcare for my second dc.

Could you afford an au pair or maybe a nanny for a few months whilst both of them are at home.

My first dc also went to primary school a little earlier than most to accommodate my return to work. Speak to the local school who might be able to help.

And lastly don't feel ashamed if thinking the way you are. This is your life and you do what's best for you all

I think your dh needs to commit to 1 day/ week childcare, even if that means working at the weekend. Can you start that now to start saving? I’d try to keep dd in nursery 1 day/ week through maternity if you possibly can because I know how hard settling in can be.

I had twins so fully understand the childcare costs. It’s only for a few months so I really hope you can make it work

Things I did:
Kept taking dd to expensive day nursery when I was on May leave because I didn’t want to upset her routine. I eventually gave up and she went to local play group and she was fine!
Went I interest only on mortgage
Used a Newly qualified nanny as it works out more cost effective for two. You might also find a mix of playgroups and childminders works.
It sounds to me like you have a set idea in your mind about what you want for dd but different things will be fine.
It also sounds like your dp should or could give up work to look after his children and you might also find this helps on the tax credits front.

On a practical level 2 close together is great. Costs are just spread differently. Everyone I know stopped DC1 nursery whilst on may leave and just used baby & toddler groups etc.
Two is tougher which ever way you do it. If you terminate a wanted baby who has just 'turned up early' I think you may well live to regret it as it's a big decision. Maybe try look after ways to improve your support network & finances

Not saying it's an easy decision at all, but you do have the choice of a termination. Our mothers didn't, and many generations before us had really, really tough lifes because they didn't have that choice. Sending hugs.

@BonnyandPoppy

I can’t believe a tree surgeon earns so little! I’m pretty sure the one we use earns more though he does do a lot of council work and sells firewood and wood chippings too. Had to wait 7 weeks for him last time we used him as he was so busy and that was during lockdown too.

My DSS is a tree surgeon and he charges £300 a day for labour, more if it's a particularly complex job. And he's never short of work, except during nesting season when there's not much that is possible.

I really feel for you, OP. Childcare costs in this country are ridiculous.

If you really can't make this work, there really is no shame in getting a termination.

OP, it's not black and white though. You can consider keeping DD in nursery when your DC2 arrives for one day a week, or even half a day if possible, to give her some time to socialise and give you time with DC2. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

Those who say take mortgage holiday - please don't. In 6 months time you'll be hit with much higher repayments. That's just poor financial advice and planning.

Try to sit down and think about it strategically. You'll have to bear the cost of childcare anyway if you're hoping for more than one child. The fact you are having them closer together means one thing - these costs are piled up at once and not spread out. Nothing else changes. There is a positive in you having much more of a breather once this expensive period is over. So for the time being you need to do financially what you'd do anyway - spread the cost of childcare over a longer period of time. Personal loans can have various interest and lending criteria, from experience Halifax tends to offer 3.5% interest to customers and it would likely be that for you on a say 15-20k loan. That was my personal loan for a car and it really doesn't work out much monthly over 5 years and not much in interest tbh. They lend up to 7 years. You need to compare the loans, I think on one of the main money saving websites you can do this. Most banks also offer a soft check to see if you are likely to be accepted, before runing a hard credit check. Shop around. In 5 years' time or less you won't even know you had a loan and at the time both your DCs will be in school and you'll be on better money and saving.

I'd also get a credit card (whoever is not taking the loan) with 0.0% on purchases and bslance transfers if you have anything to transfer, as a back up to those unpredicted rainy day purchases.

I've had to go through something similar before with house renovation. Now I'm going through having twice as big of a mortgage, renovation and baby on the way, due this summer. FWIW, I had 3 MCs and it was never planned that all these things would come together at once. Both DH and I are paid well, much better than before, but it's still incredibly hard and we know with all this going on we're in for a 5 year tight run, probably no extras and not much money spare. But with savvy financial management, ie cutting down, savings and sensible loans, we will go through it. I too like you tend to plan on the current money for years to come. However, please don't forget that money fluctuates and whilst of course anyone's position can get worse, it usually gets reasonably better, particularly if your DH brings in so little now. There definitely is scope for improvement there and if not, he'll need to pull the plug and go out to make more money elsewhere. We all have to think this way.

Re HG - you may not have it in every pregnancy, don't set yourself up for it automatically. If it happens, you will go through it, you have once already and that's hell of an achievement. You've got this! From that point of view, trust me there is no good time to have HG at any point in your life. Don't blame yourself and push more responsibility on DH for looking after DD if it happens. You're both in it, not just you. Any friends or family around who could help with childcare when you're poorly? Also DD will stay in nursery for now, right? Do you think you would be able to continue workinh? Can you WFH or part WFH to release the burden of commuting etc if you're poorly? If you're NHS you may get enhanced sick pay even if you can't work temporarily? It's not the end of the world and your DD will not remember you going through it, don't even start to have mum guilt over this!

A baby is a blessing if you're wishing for it, it really is. It might turn out to be so even if unplanned, after the initial shockl! Of course not always, but from what you wrote I really believe that if this pregnancy goes well for you, you will be fine, you're understandably overwhelmed now. I hope it all pans out well 💐

Get a cuppa and a piece of paper and write down your actual realistic options, research a bit and things will fall into place 💐 Wishing you best of luck, I have a lot of sympathy to how overwhelmed you're feeling now, but this will pass and you will see the way out very shortly. You will do whatever is right for you 💐 xx

One thing you may not have realised is that you dd’s birthday is going to save you a fortune in childcare fees. If she has turned 1 this week then she is a March baby.

Kids get their 30 hours on 1st Jan, 1st April and 1st Sept after they turn 3. So your dd will get hers on 1st April 2023.

I just came on to say, so look into a nanny. I have 14 months between mine, and went back to work when they were each 6 months old. A nanny was cheaper than private nursery for two babies, and she also helped a lot keeping the house in order (and was amazing and remains a life-long friend). A nanny often seems like the luxury option, but in your case it might be more affordable.

Wouldn't a nanny cost more than the OPs actual take home pay once employer's pension contribution, NI, tax and the nanny's salary is all counted?

PS - another option could be equity release on remortgage. But I would be careful with this, a personal loan is usually a better deal as you'd repay it relatively quickly and you'd continue to acquire equity in your home which will gradually decrease your mortgage payments. A loan is more sensible, but just flagging up there are some other options to consider if you're desperate to avoid it. xx

If you have a spare room a au pair could be a option , they are normally about £100 a week plus you pay all there food etc

Other option could you remortgage your house to release some equity to cover you for a year of childcare.

Is your DH undercharging?

I recently had a tree surgeon and he brought his employee. They chopped down 13 trees. Chipped the branches into wood bark and sliced through trunks to make more manageable for us to split into logs. The charge was £100 per hour.
This is the third time we have used this company, his rates in this area are competitive with others doing comparable service and he is very sought after. I want further work down in the autumn and have booked them already.
Your OH should be clearing £1200 a week, not a month! Tell him to have a radical price review and charge what he is worth.

I was also going to say, is your dh undercharging. I was recently charged €450 to take down one medium side tree ( took 3 hrs from arriving to leaving). And have just been quoted €600 for a hedge removal ( about 2.5m long/2m high).
They have a 1-2 month waiting list. When they removed our tree they then went off and did work at the end of the street.

In winter they seem just as busy removing dead, fallen trees. They also provide firewood.

In terms of clients not paying for months, that’s ridiculous. Dh and I are both self employed. You have contracts written that prevent this (or majorly reduce), ie they have 1month to pay, if not by x date they accrue additional % per day not paid.

I don't know anything about what a tree surgeon should cost, but I wouldn't expect it to be cheap and I would expect one with a successful business to average quite a bit more than £1200 pm.

But I'm intrigued about the comment about a 40 minute commute and taking ages to get paid. Can't he find work more locally, and shouldn't he be getting paid more or less on completion?

Or is his business set up as a limited company and the £1200 pm is the wage he takes and there's more money left in the business as investment/dividends?