Panicking that we cannot afford this baby and we will not cope.

[Redrosesblue]

I have just found out I'm pregnant and completly freaking out. DD has just celebrated her first birthday this week and this is a completely unplanned pregnancy.
We always planned to start TTC for DC2 when DD was at least 2 years 3 months so that by the time the baby arrived, she would definitely be entitled to her 30 free hours childcare. I earn good enough money and am the breadwinner. DH is self employed and his income has been hit hard by Covid (perfectly timed for mat leave with DD1 to start) and I ended up going back to work much earlier than planned to make sure we were okay.
There's no way we can afford double the childcare. DD will only be 1 year 8 months when this baby arrives so even if I take her out of childcare for my mat leave, she'll still be far off 3 by the time I need to go back to work which means double the childcare fees! I am terrified. We cannot afford this baby. I also suffered very badly with hyperemesis last time and I don't know how I will cope. DD is still breastfed to sleep and DH can't get her to sleep on his own. There's so many reasons why this is just not a good time! I'm so scared. I don't want to have to consider termination and never ever thought I would need to but I am so worried that there's no way we can make this work.

I changed careers when childcare costs became too much with an unexpected 3rd child. I work weekends and my DH works Monday to Friday. We don’t have to worry about school holidays or kids being off sick etc. We took a hit financially but it’s not forever.

DH needs to forget about the tree surgeon business for now because it's not bringing in enough
Hmm. I know what you mean, but you can't just shove a business on the shelf and pick it up later exactly as you left it while half your clients trotted off to the competition in the meantime, and your business partner is left in the lurch. It's hard on both OP and her DH in different ways. I insulated my DH a little bit- he is already a dab hand at getting bargains in the supermarket and secondhand stuff off ebay so no need to push the grim reality in his face too much. But I do remember the time when I was stressing over double nursery fees and even for a full days' work he was only bringing in £6 / day more than the nursery fees. He had a commute too so minus diesel money and he was probably working for net zero. I did kind of push this sum in his face one day when he texted something like ho hum, rained off today, oh well. (He was self employed but didn't own the businesses he worked in). I got home from work and pointed out that essentially he hadn't earned zero that day, he had earned minus two lots of nursery fees because you still have to pay the full childcare fee at such short notice. If one of us is too sick to work or a child is sick, fine, but you need bad weather stuff available to do as fallback, and also think about kids- in- tow stuff. So, keeping a stack of firewood to split on those days, pricing, surveying (he hates doing the reports after but it's decent money). He came up with the machinery rep idea and it's going OK in addition to his one day a week (hopefully more when we get childcare in our new location sorted out) doing "proper" tree work.

I know you're really worried about your husband's business partner but you need to worry about the three and then four people in your growing family! Sit him down and crunch the budget with him and explain why you are so worried and then he may try to get a second, part time job at least. You shouldn't have a partner who doesn't see reality and you doing all the stressing out!

I can’t believe a tree surgeon earns so little! I’m pretty sure the one we use earns more though he does do a lot of council work and sells firewood and wood chippings too. Had to wait 7 weeks for him last time we used him as he was so busy and that was during lockdown too.

@Notimeforaname

Disgusting. I don't know any woman who does this in my workplace. If they did, they will be remembered I've lived and worked in 2 different countries and it was/is the done thing for a lot of women.

It is disgusting. What a scummy way to behave.

There's enough discrimination against women in the workplace without encouraging to it by scamming employers and purposely causing them more problems and expense.

If your DP's business partner can climb, can the business afford to hire a self employed groundsman one or two days a week to keep things ticking over? Your DP could do as much of the "night time/out of hours" stuff himself as possible- servicing gear, maintaining the facebook page, communicating with clients- to try to make things as fair for the business partner as he can. Hard to get a reliable groundsman on a part time basis but they do exist.

@Redrosesblue I’d look into the possibility of a mortgage holiday for the difficult few months.

can’t believe a tree surgeon earns so little!

Clients just see the invoice and think vets and tree surgeons must be minted

Op will you get a discount for the second child in nursery?

I'd reduce her nursery hours during your Mat leave, couple of afternoons so she keeps some routine.

But the loan might be a serious option. I'm debt averse but I think I'd take a loan to cover nursery fees rather than terminate, especially as you want another child anyway and money is the only reason you'd consider it.
Good luck,

You just have to cut back on everything else. I didn’t have any help with childcare. I had four no help from family either. A friend and I helped each other out when I had a surprise. If you are already wanting another child you use all the same baby stuff, you make cheap recipes, you don’t go out or buy new clothes, drive an old car etc.
Once you have got over the shock you will find a way.

Congratulations.

Do you have enough equity in your home to take a long mortgage holiday or to secure borrowing for the extra expense for the next 5 years?

If you can get in quick, since your income has been effected by covid, you might be able to take a mortgage payment holiday now for 6 months and put the money aside to pay for childcare when the baby comes (but I think you have to apply in the next couple of days).

Financially, if you can find a way through the cashflow issues, having two closer together is probably slightly less expensive than spreading them out.

I can hear the panic through your post. You need to separate the things you can’t do from the things you don’t want to do. You were planning to have another child anyway, so the negative impacts will only be temporary. Your DD will cope perfectly well with changing to a different childminder. They’re like goldfish at that age. I had my second child when my first was 17 months and she regularly forgot she even had a brother.

There are actually lots of positives about having kids close together. You get all the baby stuff over and done with quickly and they can have shared toys and similar schedules once you get past the newborn phase. My small gap was unplanned but honestly looking back now I wouldn’t do it any other way.

@TheGriffle

Just a quick Google on the loan idea, £15000 (roughly 9 months nursery for both kids) repayments over 3 years is nearly half what your paying currently for nursery so a loan might not be a terrible idea.

Nobody pays 9.9% for a loan in this day and age. Surely it would be around around 3% or less.

@SofiaMichelle and @blueshoes yes it is a utterly disgusting situation that OP is in this crap situation that she and her dh both work and yet she is trying to work out if she and her dh keep her little 3 person family afloat for a few months if they keep dc2. Desperate times - desperate measures. She more than likely would end up needing sick leave with the stress of doing it all - don’t see many men under the same pressure do you? And in my case it didn’t matter a damn that I worked my socks off for years, went back to work shortly after my first daughter died and 16 weeks after my second daughter was born. The lazy good for nothing men I worked with still got promoted ahead of me.

If you work in the NHS are you due an increment over the next couple of years? Would family look after the kids whilst you do KIT days? If you spread those days out between month 6 and 9 that would be a decent amount of extra pay, and might not feel like too much for family and friends to help out with. Also remember you will be entitled to all of you AL, do you work in a job where you could work NHSP during your AL? I think I had about 6 weeks AL added to the end of my mat leave and I worked extras throughout and took home about £4000 one month (I’m on similar pay to you). Or alternatively ask to spread that AL out over the upcoming months so that you take 1 day a week and then only pay 4 days of childcare.

You make it work

I had twins in January so how can imagine the childcare costs. I am also the main earner. I can only take 20 weeks maternity leave and I've taken out a 10 year loan to cover the childcare fees - it's all going into the government tax free childcare account to get the 20% to up

I run my own business and you mention DH not getting paid sometimes for months. This needs to change. There are ways to ensure you get paid on time...contracts for one. Even small jobs. He can also get half upfront. I do that all the time.

I won't suggest he gives it up but unless he's out cutting down trees 8 hours a day and 5 days a week, he needs something else alongside the work.

He could diversify into gardening or handyman. Or get a part time job.

Can your DH do smaller jobs for householders at weekends? He'd probably get paid faster.

Why has covid affected his business? He doesn't need to have stopped working, what with trees generally being outside and all that. There's been absolutely loads of work happening on trees where I am, so there's a demand for it.

Did he get all the SEISS grants? He's probably entitled to the next ones, even if he wasn't entitled to the first ones if his business was too new.

What about cheaper childcare options such as a childminder or nanny share - with the latter you're not paying for "two" children as such. Is there anyone who can help with informal care eg grandparents?Can you get a pay rise at all?

I think if you're considering a termination on the basis only of childcare costs you need to think a bit about the bigger picture - how would you feel if you did end this pregnancy but found that you were unable to conceive again in future?

Don't worry about bf to sleep - these things always work put. My elder child bf to sleep throughout my pregnancy even after I dried up, and then self weaned not long before I had the baby

@PurplePansy05

I think we need to get away from thinking it is expensive, and rather, see it as an appropriately priced service.

I think we need to stop justifying the UK governments doing absolutely fuck all for parents on average or slightly above average income in terms of supporting them with childcare costs and encouraging working. We are squeezed like lemons. Childcare costs in this country per family are extortionate and disproportionate and it's not because people don't make much money but because people on middle incomes get no or barely any help making it impossible. If you ever bothered to compare the costs with any other EU country, your jaw would drop and this would be an eye opener. The UK is an unsupportive shithole for most working parents and consecutive governments onlg look at shifting the costs on parents and not offering them any relief whatsoever. It's an absolute disgrace.

OP 💐 it's very stressful and a shock to the system. I'd say get a loan. Get it as late as you can, save up as much as possible now and get a longer term loan. This plus get DH to work a second job/more hours/change jobs for the time being. You will make it work. Don't forget increased child benefit and some nurseries give a sibling discount too. Every little helps! xx

This. I completely agree.

I live abroad. Taxes are higher here but you see very clearly where your money goes so I don't begrudge paying it. One place the government pays into are the nurseries. They are subsided here and for full time, you only have to pay 160 euros a month. Private nurseries range from 400-700 euros, but it doesn't usually go higher than that.

Back to the op. I can't imagine how you're feeling, op. I too have a nearly 9 month old and still feed to sleep. There is no shame in abortion if you feel it's right. However, it would be good to really lay out all options and difficulties to see if you can make it work (if that's what you want). Can you talk it over with someone else in your family? That's great your husband is being optimistic and supportive but if he doesn't understand the gravity of the financial situation, maybe it would help to have some outside perspective? And he might also realise that you need a solid plan and not to just wing it?

There’s a chance that you might never be ready for the financial hit. We planned to have a 3 year gap between our two (this was before the 30 free hours, we only got 15 free hours after eldest turned three). When I fell pregnant (at the time we had planned for), instead of being excited and thrilled, I panicked about how we would cope. Unfortunately I miscarried within only a few days.
I became pregnant a month or so later, and this time forced myself not to worry about money.
The year when they were both in nursery was tight but we got through it, and every year became easier.
Big hug to you, hope you’re ok x

Thank you. I'm just feeling so overwhelmed. This wasn't supposed to happen and I'm just struggling to see past all the hard bits. I'm so annoyed for my DD. I was so sick last time and even once my medication finally made me function I was beyond exhausted. She's so little and I feel like I'm going to spend the next 8 months praying time away but missing her just to survive. And then I found having a baby so so hard; I've only just really started to feel like some semblance of myself again and that I can really enjoy DD and now that will be so much harder with two. I don't know that I can do it.

@DipSwimSwoosh

But if you take a year your dc1 with be 2y8m when you go back, so only a few months of paying double childcare. Is that out of the question? Or could you do shared parental leave, or return part time?

Shared parental leave??? Her partner is self employed, no leave there!

I know it seems a shame to take her out of nursery but hopefully playgroups will be back on by then so she can still socialise. I had a similar gap and the months of paying double childcare were really hard but not forever.

Can you get an au pair? If you're working from home and Dh work is patchy and he's at home a fair bit an au pair could work for those few months before free hours kick in?

Also before you commit to that nursery, what does 30 hours look like to them? Often it's still quite expensive so you might be better using a childminder who will drop off at a school preschool (which is actually free)