Double standards on mn.

[thatwasme22]

This week so far:

1. I have seen various posters defend Caroline Flack for having issues. Maybe she did but then the same argument would not be made on Chris Browne.

1. A thread on the physical attractiveness on male politicians. Imagine a male forum did this on females.

1. A thread with a woman hiding her inheritance from her husband and encouraged to do so by many posters and him being called financially abusive for being sensible over money. When men do this on mn it's all ltb.

Am I missing something? I call myself a feminist so am pro equality and that's how I raised my kids but why is this not being called out on mn?

Hold on a minute.

This is a majority female site. I don't know any others.

On relationships etc people only tend to post when things are not going well.

Most people are het.

So obviously there will be a lot of threads with women who are unhappy about something in their relationship with a man.

That's not double standards. But is it what a lot of this thread boils down to?

The post earlier about a thread I didn't see.

Sounds like a woman was having an affair with a married man, he went back to his wife, she was upset.

Well, ok? Sounds like something that may well happen?

Double standards are at a societal level, or an official demonstrating them (do as I say, not what I do).

That does not seem to be what is being discussed on this thread.

Plus the massive disparity in male and female words and behaviour towards to opposite sex is somehow irrelevant (?).

And the analogies that have been drawn are, on the whole, terrible.

Is the idea that women are as bad as/ worse than men in these sorts of things? I've not seen anything to convince me.

No, when discussing men who have raped and beaten women, bringing in women who have had affairs as a comparison, is really pretty offensive.

I agree completely.

Not to mention, on MN the OW is about the worst thing you can be. They tend to get a much tougher press than the men.

@Pumperthepumper I do. But I am under no obligation to give it. It was just an opinion, and I think a look through the threads confirms that.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

No, when discussing men who have raped and beaten women, bringing in women who have had affairs as a comparison, is really pretty offensive.

I agree completely.

Not to mention, on MN the OW is about the worst thing you can be. They tend to get a much tougher press than the men.

Yes, it really surprised me that people think MN is a place for OW to get sympathy, when to me it’s the total opposite. I always feel those threads are crying out for someone to say ‘hang on, he was the married one’.

[quote Butwasitherdriveway]@Pumperthepumper I do. But I am under no obligation to give it. It was just an opinion, and I think a look through the threads confirms that.[/quote]
You’re certainly under no obligation to justify yourself. Most people fancy a discussion where they air their views but not you. So.....enjoy your evening, I guess.

'. I always feel those threads are crying out for someone to say ‘hang on, he was the married one’.'

I don't read those threads too much but when I do there are usually a mix of.

(Single woman dumped by married man and upset he's dumped her to go back to his wife)-

You deserve everything you get going with a married man
Hold on he was married she wasn't he's the pig here
You're best off out of it, men who have affairs don't change
How do you think the wife feels you're an awful person
And depending on the circs, I understand why you're upset but move on

I mean more or less.

On a site mainly female, many in het relationships, and many with children, often small children, plenty who have had partners cheat, why are divorced etc, it's not surprising that this is a blue touchpaper subject surely? And also it's not a surprise that people sometimes make poor choices, behave badly, are naive etc and when things go wrong they have an emotional reaction? I mean that's all just normal. For both sexes.

I find it odd how what is essentially normal and pretty universal human behaviour (falling for the wrong person, it going wrong) is evidence that women/ MN are awful. I honestly don't get it.

I mean I know that women tend to be held to high standards but this is just silly.

I agree OP and it’s the same few posters who can not wait to jump on men for anything. They like to back each other up, and anyone who has an opposing viewpoint is patronised and belittled. Like someone said I hope these people don’t have sons, because some of you can’t seem to separate your hatred of the patriarchy, to the individual man. You know the ones who have done nothing wrong, maybe even have been victims of violence by women or men, who possibly have mental health problems (suicide being a main cause of death in young males). But you’d happily kick them when they’re down because they were born with a penis. Do you support your sons when they have troubles and forget they are also the big bad men or do you tell them to get a grip because their problems are nothing compared to women’s? Genuinely interested because it sounds much like a vendetta against males for some of you. The point about the politician looks rating thread is valid if it was indeed the same posters. You complain about men doing this to women, yet retaliate and sink to that level. Honestly the hatred coming from some is unreal. Pathetic.

Oh won't someone help the poor men? Build some refuges for them, poor persecuted underdogs.

Step parents. A woman on here is expected to treat her step DC kindly (like all decent people) but is never expected to provide for them and her family treat them equally to their actual Grandchildren. Step Fathers are expected to immediately treat step DC exactly the same as his own DC and his family are expected to do the same or be cut out of their lives.

@Wannakisstheteacher

Step parents. A woman on here is expected to treat her step DC kindly (like all decent people) but is never expected to provide for them and her family treat them equally to their actual Grandchildren. Step Fathers are expected to immediately treat step DC exactly the same as his own DC and his family are expected to do the same or be cut out of their lives.

I absolutely don’t recognise that description. Both types of step parent get a rough ride on here.

Stepmothers are definitely demonised on here and almost always accused of being the OW

Stepmothers are definitely demonised on here and almost always accused of being the OW

No, they aren't. I'm so sick of that trope.

@HeyDemonsItsYaGirl it's not a trope, it's what happens go onto relationships board it won't be hard to find

I agree OP and it’s the same few posters who can not wait to jump on men for anything. They like to back each other up, and anyone who has an opposing viewpoint is patronised and belittled. Like someone said I hope these people don’t have sons.

The patronising, belittling, minimising members of this site are the ones who persist in peppering threads with 'NAMALT' responses. The threads I refer to in particular are those on which women have bravely shared shared stories of the most heinous abuse they have suffered at the hands of men. Then they receive gentle admonitions from handmaidens to the patriarchy to consider the feelings of men.

Because that's the sort of thing a rape victim really wants to hear. Did you expect such commentary would go down well on a thread such as that? Not least, some victims who have objected have been subject to some horrendous bullying and belittling of their situation (which certain posters have attempted to mitigate by patronisingly saying, 'I'm sorry for what you've been through').

No, they are not.

As for the low blow that you hope these women don't have sons, I hope they do. They are far likely to raise their male children with more sensitivity to these issues, and are similarly aware that parents don't raise children in a vacuum and there is a very brutal society out there to navigate. This all promises a far a better sense of awareness than those who persist in sticking their heads in the sand and carolling 'Not My Nigel'.

It is, also, possible to have real concerns about the suicide rate of younger men AND find unacceptable the level of harassment experienced by women and the low conviction rate for serious sexual offences. I find the sort of view that (wrongly) sets these concerns up as some kind of mutually-exclusive polarity very over-simplistic and myopic.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks amazing post!! I'm always pleased when women who recognise the patriarchy for what it is and how it affects all men, have sons. I die a bit inside when the "not all men" crowd have sons.

It says a lot about people when they would rather protect the egos of men than the safety of women

@NiceGerbil

So what I'm getting now is that all women need to act with scrupulous ethics all time everywhere.

If they don't it proves women have double standards

That's another thing that comes up a lot

One woman doing wrong demonstrates that all women are bad
One man doing something wrong is an individual and no reflection on others

This

@MinnieMous3

Because I said having an affair with a married man then wondering why he is fickle enough to go back to his wife is a double standard?! I’m suddenly a men’s rights activists?!

It's not a double standard.

@thatwasme22

''Really, really disgusting to compare this to domestic violence. Affairs are not illegal.''

The thread is not about dm though and there was no comparison, it is about behaviour in general men get crucified for on mn and that women too often get excused for on here. I clearly outlined that and I was bringing it into the post as it was about female celebrities.

You are "crucifying" the woman participants in these affairs, using them as proof of double standards, while not calling out the men they were sleeping with. All your posts wreak of double standards, and not the kind you're trying to convince us all exist.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

No, when discussing men who have raped and beaten women, bringing in women who have had affairs as a comparison, is really pretty offensive.

I agree completely.

Not to mention, on MN the OW is about the worst thing you can be. They tend to get a much tougher press than the men.

Well said.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

I agree OP and it’s the same few posters who can not wait to jump on men for anything. They like to back each other up, and anyone who has an opposing viewpoint is patronised and belittled. Like someone said I hope these people don’t have sons.

The patronising, belittling, minimising members of this site are the ones who persist in peppering threads with 'NAMALT' responses. The threads I refer to in particular are those on which women have bravely shared shared stories of the most heinous abuse they have suffered at the hands of men. Then they receive gentle admonitions from handmaidens to the patriarchy to consider the feelings of men.

Because that's the sort of thing a rape victim really wants to hear. Did you expect such commentary would go down well on a thread such as that? Not least, some victims who have objected have been subject to some horrendous bullying and belittling of their situation (which certain posters have attempted to mitigate by patronisingly saying, 'I'm sorry for what you've been through').

No, they are not.

As for the low blow that you hope these women don't have sons, I hope they do. They are far likely to raise their male children with more sensitivity to these issues, and are similarly aware that parents don't raise children in a vacuum and there is a very brutal society out there to navigate. This all promises a far a better sense of awareness than those who persist in sticking their heads in the sand and carolling 'Not My Nigel'.

It is, also, possible to have real concerns about the suicide rate of younger men AND find unacceptable the level of harassment experienced by women and the low conviction rate for serious sexual offences. I find the sort of view that (wrongly) sets these concerns up as some kind of mutually-exclusive polarity very over-simplistic and myopic.

I throughly enjoyed this post

@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows
Also Amber Heard and Carmen Electra have also assaulted partners and not had their careers affected. I mean, Amber Heards career is going just grand and she has been recorded as
admitting to repeatedly abusing Depp. And regardless of whether he abused her or not back, his career is over, here is grand. Which is so ridiculous to me, why has it happened that way? It can’t be just because she is a woman because the utterly vile Chris Brown’s career is continued and no one says a word? I don’t have an argument either way here by the way, I’m just babbling away. I just don’t get who gets ‘cancelled’ and who doesn’t. The public, or the media, are very strange.

@MarieIVanArkleStinks has it

*Picture this. A patriarchal society with a frighteningly misogynistic culture in which 2-3 women a WEEK (statistics, Women's Aid) are killed by men, and twice the average statistic of women have been killed during lockdown by their male partners. A society in which hundreds, thousands of women responded in their droves to #MeToo and awareness started to spread of how pervasive a scourge on our society this is. In which, just this month, stories have started to break - frightening, heartbreaking stories - about the horrible atmosphere of disrespect against girls and, yes, rape culture, pervading our schools.

In one corner of toxic cyberspace, in a society set up to privilege and serve the interests of the half of the human population who happen to be sporting a penis, there's a site with a predominantly female demographic. On some of its threads, the scales of this overwhelming pro-male bias and anti-female prejudice are tipped in favour of women.

Well, fuck me.*

I said nothing about rape! I never said NAMALT! I think that more needs done and men should be doing more to help BUT I think some of you are so against men that it must affect the way you treat the men in your life. Including sons. It must. The amount of people mocking men’s feelings when men are just peoples sons. Teaching your sons to be good people should be a given. I don’t question that at all. But the way you talk about men like it’s their fault for existing is disgusting. How young do you start making them ashamed of their gender? I assume not as a toddler. Teenager? When do you start telling them or showing them that they don’t matter like their sister does? Or is it just everyone else’s sons that are the problem? And then you’re a total hypocrite. This is not about everyone here. Only about the ones who are shouting about men’s feelings not mattering. Is there ever a situation where they do matter? Like, your boy being heartbroken when he’s dumped for the first time? STFU you’ve nothing to be sad about, you’re not a girl!! I’m asking a question here because I am hoping these examples ARE silly and that you mother and care about your children equally. I don’t want to assume the worst about people. If anything like the last post though, nobody will answer it, but instead trot out something deflective. It’s not all about the rape threads you mentioned @MarieIVanArkleStinks it’s everything when a man is mentioned here. He forgets to take the bin out -LTB!! Yes it may be an over simplistic view that constantly berating men and taking the piss out of their feelings means that you don’t care about them - I can’t fathom it and I am trying to ask so that if I’m wrong I can understand! I bet nobody will actually make any attempt to answer the question but twist it instead.

I bet nobody will actually make any attempt to answer the question but twist it instead.

Have you heard of conformation bias? Its like we are reading different threads. Saying 'LTB' is given in response to him not taking the bins out is minimising the amount of flat out abusive behaviours we see on some threads.
I've only seen women say 'LTB' for stuff that matters. Many women on Mumsnet have a background in the women's sector or are abuse survivors themselves, and are more aware of red flags and escalating abuse than you are.