Do men know this is creepy?

[FlossieTeacakesFurCoat18]

Yesterday I was walking in woodland near my home, something I do regularly. I was approaching a gate leading to the lane and a guy was coming through it towards me. I glanced back once I was through the gate and he'd turned around and was now walking behind me. I stopped by a tree and pretended to be fiddling with my phone so I was facing him and kind of stared him down... He then made a 90 degree turn and went up the hill.

I don't think he was actually going to do anything sinister but surely guys know that you don't do an about-face and start following a woman you've just passed in a relatively remote space with no other people around? He wasn't a young lad who might not have realised this is scary for women, he was in his thirties.

I realise men can be clueless but is it possible to be THAT oblivious? Do they do it on purpose or am I paranoid after seeing screenshots from reddit users saying they get a kick out of following women and seeing them get nervous?

Ugh, I hadn't seen that screenshot before. How vile. The bit about 'becoming important to her' was very interesting as well as creepy. It reminded me of older men cat calling me when I was a teen just to be noticed, never mind if that's for negative reasons. Horrible!

My dad has boasted about doing this! He once told he was walking through a deserted corridor at work and a woman turned the corner, so he slowed down so she would think he was following her. He thought it was funny.

@Boatingforthestars

Unfortunately though it's getting to a point where I can feel guilty for doing absolutely nothing wrong and am becoming very self conscious with how I conduct myself

Well, sorry, but that's a good thing.

I'm sorry if you feel guilty, but women have been made to feel guilty for aeons - your skirt is too short, your blouse is too tight, you're showing too much cleavage, you shouldn't be walking out late at night on your own etc.

Perhaps that might give you a bit of insight into how women feel?

If you had your phone OP, next time just do a nice panoramic screen shot or video and include him.

I walk back from our rural train station at night with an enormous torch, I have no intention of paying £10 for a journey that takes me 7 minutes max.

I can't believe this goes on. Where the hell are their parents? Surely any mother would be furious and disgusted with this sort of behaviour.

If I found out my son was doing something like that I'd be the one to fucking fear, no matter how old he was. We'd see what a big man he thought he was when I got hold of him.

It cant be good though unless it's also good that women feel that way which obviously is far from good.
Nobody should feel guilty for doing nothing, regardless of gender.

I agree with all your points about skirts, cleavage etc completely unacceptable that anyone should be made to feel bad about that.
But as a big burley guy I also feel insecure walking late at night, that is not a problem only women suffer.

I dont know what the solution is to that problem, educating people doesnt change anything as they know what they are doing is wrong. I personally believe there is just bad people in the world and you should do everything you can to avoid putting yourself in a vulnerable position around these people and that effects both genders equally.

I do not think anyone should be intimated , however there is a difference between intimidating behaviour and being viewed as intimidating just by going about your own activities . In my view we can't say every time we see a man when we are out walking is intimidating

@Lentillover1900: presumably, you were clear you'd dropped a glove, no?

Not in the slightest. I stuck my hand in my pocket, realised it wasn’t there, turned on my heel and started walking in opposite direction

I wonder if the mum of the boy in the screenshot is a MNer

Boating a problem with trying to avoid these situations is that as a female they're everyday, small scenarios. It's not just the "walking home late at night " stuff you see in Luther. If we were to try avoiding them we'd never leave the ruddy house.

@Doyoumindfisithere

Not only that, but if we don’t generalise and those things happen, then we are blamed for those things happening, because we obviously should have been more careful/less naive, etc.

Oh, yes - if you are wary you are being unfair, but if you are not wary you have no one to blame but yourself if something happens. FFS.

100% this. We are wrong for 'hurting mens feelings' and we are wrong for getting raped because we should have known better than to.......... Insert any activity here.

Sorry @boatingforthestars what are you worried about??

If they're doing this to get a kick, I absolutely believe they will become offenders in future. They are flirting with their own boundaries, with their own inhibitions by doing this and every time they do it they will become close to offending because acting like a twat won't be enough anymore.

It's clearly driven by misogyny and maybe just general sadistic thrills. It's absolutely pathetic. OP, I would say you had an escape her and you did the right thing by staring him down. Clearly that put him off in this case.

@Veryverycalmnow

Ugh, I hadn't seen that screenshot before. How vile. The bit about 'becoming important to her' was very interesting as well as creepy. It reminded me of older men cat calling me when I was a teen just to be noticed, never mind if that's for negative reasons. Horrible!

@Veryverycalmnow God it's so pathetic, so sad isn't it?? That they would distress a young woman simply to be seen, to go LOOK AT ME!!!!!

I think you know when it’s creepy. No ones going to jail here but assuming that he knew he was a dickhead isn’t assuming all men are rapists.
It’s not all men but it’s definitely not women following men in forests.

@Sometimeswinning

Sorry *@boatingforthestars* what are you worried about??

Not sure what bit your are getting at so can give 2 answers

The feeling guilty bit I worry about my innocent actions making a lone female feel insecure, without me consciously doing it.
Example: I drive a van, was driving with my children although you wouldnt see them from outside, saw a young woman in her early twenties who looked an awful lot like a family member, looked longer than I meant to trying to decide of she was who I thought she was, realised she wasnt and by now had a quite confused look on her face staring back at me.
I literally looked at her, yet drove home feeling guilty that day for wondering if I saw a family member whilst out in my van.

As a big bloke I feel worried walking around late at night, I was set upon by about 4 lads in my early twenties from behind walking home one evening. I had never seen these people before and never have since.
They beat the absolute crap out of me, i lost consiousness and woke up getting kicked in the face. The next day I had full facial xrays and a quite severe concussion, the hospital also super glued part of my forehead back together as it was gaping wide.

Being a man does not make you be born safe and excemt from random acts of violence from strangers.
I'm not trying to take anything away from women but just pointing out men feel the same way too.

I may have been lucky, but when I was a long time ago a young white woman travelling home alone in NYC late at night, I was queuing for the bus when I was surrounded by about half a dozen lads, all black or dark Latino. They chatted, I replied politely. When they clocked my accent, they asked what attitudes were like toward POC in the UK. I replied 'I am white; why would you ask me? how can I know?' They sat around me like a squad of bodyguards until I got off the bus. I haven't often felt as safe as I did that night.

@Boatingforthestars, you're sticking with the late night walking senario . Have you ever felt nervous walking down a corridor at work? Sitting on public transport? On a daily basis waiting just living your life?

@Lorieandrews have you, or your trainers wife ever had a fight with a man intent on assaulting you? Knowing self defense might not make a difference and might get you more hurt than if you didn't know any. Many women freeze when in rl.

It's seen as the normal state of things for women to be self-conscious and alert to men in public, but asking men to consider themselves in relation to women is seen as a step too far. Men can be incredibly disingenuous on this issue. They've been using the fact that we fear them to their advantage for millennia but they dismiss these fears as hysteria or even bigotry.

Boatingforthestars am grateful for your honest response to pp questions, but the point you raise is one which is often raised. Men feel this way too. I wonder why telling women that men are scared of other men too is supposed to help anything in this situation? It really does not make me as a woman feel safer to know that a large strong man is nervous of men as well. Are we supposed to just shrug and think that makes it ok? Really curious as to how this is any kind of answer to the situation?

Being a man does not make you be born safe and excemt from random acts of violence from strangers. Completely agree and what happened to you was absolutely dreadful.

I'm not trying to take anything away from women but just pointing out men feel the same way too. In the nicest possible way, so what? This is about women and the million things we have to think about every day to protect ourselves from male violence that your average man doesn’t even consider.
Asking women to consider your experiences as a man sounds like an attempt to either shut women up (‘stop moaning women, men have it bad too’) or make it about men (‘Stop moaning women, we suffer from worst violence than you do, so what about us?). I hope that you’re not aware you’re doing it, but what you’ve written absolutely is an attempt to take away from what women all over the world are going through.

Just to be clear.
A man saying they are scared too, and what they are scared of is men, kind of backs up the whole premise of the OPs thread.

@Gingernaut

Yup. They know it's creepy.

That guy is a creep and he is doing something creepy.

I honestly don't think the vast majority of mainstream guys would like that.

Maybe I'm an idiot, maybe I'm crazy lucky, but honestly I don't think I know any guys who would like that.

I appreciate that men fear public violence but the kind of violence men face is largely overt: gangs of teenagers who are out for trouble, home-invasion burglars, drunks at kicking out time, football hooligans. Women have to fear those people too, but we also have to fear the violent who are leading double lives, the ordinary man who is waiting for an opportunity. As I said on a thread on the feminism board in the wake of the Sarah Everard murder, a taxi- driver might avoid picking up a group of drunks if he doesn't like the look of them, but I doubt there are many men who have had the thought that their taxi-driver could rape and murder them flicker through their head.

And we all know that the reason we are targeted is that we are women. There is the fact of pure hatred to deal with.

@pippitysqueakity

Boatingforthestars am grateful for your honest response to pp questions, but the point you raise is one which is often raised. Men feel this way too. I wonder why telling women that men are scared of other men too is supposed to help anything in this situation? It really does not make me as a woman feel safer to know that a large strong man is nervous of men as well. Are we supposed to just shrug and think that makes it ok? Really curious as to how this is any kind of answer to the situation?

There is no answer to the situation, I'm just pointing out that you are not alone in how you feel. Like I said previously, my belief is that there are just bad people out there, and the most we can all do is try to not put ourselves in harm's way. Certain types of people cant be educated on things because they dont care, which then goes full cirle to my point that I dont believe there is a solution.

I'm not trying to cause an argument but what do you think the answer is?