If you're still sticking to ALL the rules/guidance - why?

[RaspberryCoulis]

Will start by saying I am not sticking to the covid rules any more. Obviously I can't go places which aren't open. But we have had people in the house, kids are going out with friends probably in larger numbers than are permitted, we're crossing local authority boundaries which is supposedly illegal in Scotland. Why? Because we've been in lockdown for a year, cases here are very low, and some things are more important than Covid.

But on every thread there are people claiming that they are sticking rigidly to every single rule and guideline, never breaking ANY rule. They would probably say I was a selfish covid-denier who was hellbent on murdering their granny.

So if you're sticking to all the guidelines and rules, without fail - why? People who are clinically extremely vulnerable (officially) I can understand in part if they're not vaccinated. But the rest of you? Is it because you're scared of Covid, or scared of your neighbours, or scared of breaking the law by mistake?

@user1471539324

Nobody is equating the two, *@kellehi*...

Perhaps you should critique your own logical arguments before trying to pick holes in other people’s. Most posts that you’ve written have contained flawed logic.

Yes they obviously are equating them. They have said that they are analogies

ddl1: "Because exactly this happened"

@Fridget

Their false optimism just leads to disappointment over and over again

I agree @PrincessNutNuts that the messaging is appalling, but I do suspect that if they said it’s another year of this misery a lot of people would lose all motivation to comply. I don’t know what the answer is to that.

Info is a bit of a pick and mix these days, isn't it? People seem to choose who they want to believe.

Vaccines as a magical cure all silver bullet is another one that alarms me. Even before most people have had one.

People are going to be so disappointed when they find out that vaccines can't do it on their own. For a good long while it's going to be a balance between achieving population immunity (vaccines, natural infection) and containing/suppressing/eliminating the virus through public health measures (find, test, trace, isolate, behaviour change).Or lockdowns if we keep failing to do those properly.

I'm the kind of person who would rather just have the truth and the comforting lies add to the stress for me.

My parents always believe Boris, so they are constantly making plans and being disappointed.

@RaspberryCoulis and some things are more important than Covid. the things that are more important/of equal importance are legal. So you can support a vulnerable person, visit a dying relative, have a friend move on who is experiencing DV , provide medical treatment etc etc.
Having mates round etc no , you are just incredibly selfish and self centred. People may die as a direct result of your actions and you will never know.
I don’t want to live my life with the knowledge I could be responsible for someone’s death.
Nothing is more important than serious illness and death whatever the cause Covid or otherwise.

Yes they obviously are equating them. They have said that they are analogies

Analogy does not mean “equating two things”.

Yes we are still following the rules because we view it as the right thing to do.

Is it because you're scared of Covid, or scared of your neighbours, or scared of breaking the law by mistake?

No. It's because I don't want to spread covid. I don't want to be responsible for my hospital bring overwhelmed again, I don't want to pass covid to people who may become very ill with it and I'd really, really like to be able to stop calling people's loved ones to say they've died.

I think you are a selfish twat. It's not you that suffers. It's other people.

scientifically and ethically

@SmileEachDay

Yes they obviously are equating them. They have said that they are analogies

Analogy does not mean “equating two things”.

Tell ddl1 then.

Analogy: a thing which is comparable to something else in significant respects.

@kellehi they are comparing for the purpose of discussion, not necessarily equating.

It's Mumsnet ffs. Not newsnight.

[quote Fridget]@Sirzy does anything less then perfection count as “doing your bit”? So someone who has lost their job due to the lockdown, and not seen their parents for a year (during which their mother died without having seen each other for months), hasn’t “done their bit” if they see 2 friends in their garden tomorrow instead of Monday?[/quote]
It's the motivation isn't it.

I don't have an issue with something like that.

I have an issue with folk being selfish arseholes.

I live in West lothian Scotland and actually cases aren't low here but maybe in your part of Scotland they are. We have had two family members die of covid, early 60s no prior health conditions. I haven't been home in nearly a year and would like to see my mil and parents desperately to tell them they are going to be grandparents again. I would have loved to have mil and my nephew over for my dd's birthday, this will be her second during lockdown and she is going to be 5. She misses seeing her family and doesn't fully understand why she can't see them.

Mostly I am keeping to the rules because I can't trust people like you to do so. I work in healthcare and am public facing, being pregnant makes me extra cautious. We can't tell people to wear masks and have to serve them anyway, people still get too close even when I pointedly remind them to keep distance. If I flouted the rules and caught it I could potentially cause havoc for my community midwife who is seeing other pregnant mothers. I care for others, even strangers so do not want to put myself or them at risk.

Analogy: a thing which is comparable to something else in significant respects...for the purposes of clarification and explanation. It’s a rhetorical device.

It doesn’t mean that one thing is the same as another.

[quote user1471539324]@kellehi they are comparing for the purpose of discussion, not necessarily equating.[/quote]
What possible meaning should I expect to apply to the phrase "because exactly this happened"

@SmileEachDay

Analogy: a thing which is comparable to something else in significant respects...for the purposes of clarification and explanation. It’s a rhetorical device.

It doesn’t mean that one thing is the same as another.

So you accept that you cannot equate/compare/use an analogy/whatever when it comes to drawing parallels with people 'not fully complying with the rules' and 'carrying out medical procedures without washing hands'?

Fantastic, we are in 100% agreement

Because I'm a Nurse and watching someone die of Covid, especially without their loved ones present, is awful. And because people like you OP exist.

So you accept that you cannot equate/compare/use an analogy/whatever when it comes to drawing parallels with people 'not fully complying with the rules' and 'carrying out medical procedures without washing hands'

Jesus. I’m really glad you’re not in my English lit class.

Completely sticking to rules. They don't go far enough, frankly. Why not breaking rules? Social contract and science.

It appears that I have inadvertently grown up. Bugger.

@AfternoonToffee

I have no friends, so nothing to break rules for.

Actually I have broken rules, last Friday I visited a relative and sat in her house and Thursday I had someone in my house. The reason? To tell them that their sister was dying and the man was the funeral director.

I have no real desire to do anything that involves breaking the rules, but neither am I wearing it as some kind of badge of honour.

Next week I'll break the rules again as I am planning on having additional neighbours in the garden after the funeral. Can't have a wake, but can legally have two households in the garden, so that is 9. A couple of extra neighbours is neither here nor there.

I'm in much the same position having just lost my Dad.

Funeral is also next week and we will be doing much the same as you.

Why? Because I want to do my bit to prevent more lives being lost, and the best way to do that is to follow the advice of medical professionals who know what they are talking about, rather than listen to what muppets on the Internet suggest.

@SmileEachDay

I’m just hoping that they don’t work in STEM if they don’t understand the difference between comparable and equal😬. Could be some catastrophic errors made.

@SmileEachDay

Yes they obviously are equating them. They have said that they are analogies

Analogy does not mean “equating two things”.

Indeed. But there has to be some degree of similarity to the two scenarios or the analogy is meaningless. They can’t be completely different.

They don’t have the be the same, but I think there is so little comparison between your example and lockdown requirements (for the reasons in my last reply to you) that the analogy doesn’t work.

No, not been following for a while. I want to teach my children that there's 'being kind' & there's 'bend over while I royally shaft you'. Big difference.

Young people have sacrificed enough now. I'm over 50 & I'm embarrassed at how my generation & those above are still expecting privilege at the expense of others. It's been 12 months & all vulnerable have been offered vaccines. Anyone still too fragile to coexist with covid is also too fragile to catch flu, shingles, Nora virus & a whole host of other things. Thus can't continue.

Indeed. But there has to be some degree of similarity to the two scenarios or the analogy is meaningless. They can’t be completely different

Yep.
In both cases infection control is the issue. In both cases there is a set of rules in place. In both cases there are individuals making decisions that are against those rules.

More in common than lots of analogies. You don’t like the analogy. That’s fine. That doesn’t mean it’s a bad one.

@RaspberryCoulis

DH and I have been working from home for a year. We're not seeing relatives as they are quite some distance away. We're not using public transport, gathering in large groups.

In what way is it "risky" for DH and I to drive 30 minutes to the next council area for a walk rather than drive 5 minutes within our own council area? Makes no sense.

I'm law abiding too. Never arrested, never had so much as a speeding ticket.

But you’re not law abiding are you?

You are doing what you want to do, based on your perception of the risk. Obviously you know better than all the people who have studied it a depth. 🤨

So yes, I’m sticking to the rules - even though some are inconvenient and I think the risk is negligible. If I can break the rules, then others feel they can. Then a larger number twist them slightly. Then more people are ignore them and everyone else has to deal with this for longer.

But hey don’t you worry about breaking the rules, law abiding person that you are!