If you're still sticking to ALL the rules/guidance - why?

[RaspberryCoulis]

Will start by saying I am not sticking to the covid rules any more. Obviously I can't go places which aren't open. But we have had people in the house, kids are going out with friends probably in larger numbers than are permitted, we're crossing local authority boundaries which is supposedly illegal in Scotland. Why? Because we've been in lockdown for a year, cases here are very low, and some things are more important than Covid.

But on every thread there are people claiming that they are sticking rigidly to every single rule and guideline, never breaking ANY rule. They would probably say I was a selfish covid-denier who was hellbent on murdering their granny.

So if you're sticking to all the guidelines and rules, without fail - why? People who are clinically extremely vulnerable (officially) I can understand in part if they're not vaccinated. But the rest of you? Is it because you're scared of Covid, or scared of your neighbours, or scared of breaking the law by mistake?

Surgeons don't use sterilising machines, They have nothing to do with them. They also go into their career knowing that there are standards regarding infection control and aseptic technique

The analogy wasn’t really centred on who drives the sterilising machine.

I should remember not to be analogous on here. It seems to cause no end of confusion.

🤦🏻‍♀️

I do have a clinically vulnerable child, who is unvaccinated...but that is not why we as a family are following the rules, we're following them because this is a public health crisis, and as such everyone has to abide by the measures that will help us move on from this shit show.

Nice strawman you have created there.

Not really. Because exactly this happened (doctors dismissing and refusing to co-operate with hygiene recommendations) in the 19th century; and caused many unnecessary deaths, especially of women in and shortly after childbirth. Ignaz Semmelweiss, the strongest early advocate of asepsis and handwashing by obstetricians. thereby made himself extremely unpopular with many of his colleagues.

My DC play football with two friends who are siblings in their classes. I'm not a total knob in letting this take place, my DC have lost their much loved grandma to Covid. It was horrific.

But, I fail to see that four of them playing outside, distanced, is more risky than them sitting with each other in classrooms with 28 others for 6 hours a day.
Besides, in 3 days time it will be allowed anyway.

Other than that, no, we've not broken rules. No journeys, no visits, no indoors visitors. I'm missing my family hugely though.

OP , are you aware there are people who have died because of missed scans etc because of lockdown ? Are you OK with that ?

@ddl1

Nice strawman you have created there.

Not really. Because exactly this happened (doctors dismissing and refusing to co-operate with hygiene recommendations) in the 19th century; and caused many unnecessary deaths, especially of women in and shortly after childbirth. Ignaz Semmelweiss, the strongest early advocate of asepsis and handwashing by obstetricians. thereby made himself extremely unpopular with many of his colleagues.

Another strawman. Wow, you lockdown fanatics are really outdoing yourselves today.

Once again, the WHO advice is that the restrictions you espouse are unnecessary... It is ridiculous to suggest that it is equivalent to doctors not scrubbing their hands before a medical procedure.

Another strawman. Wow, you lockdown fanatics are really outdoing yourselves today

It’s...umm..that’s not a straw man either. Mine was an analogy and this is some historical information about infection control.

Do you really love straw or something?

@kellehi

On the front page of tomorrow's Telegraph has a headline 'Over 70's to get booster jabs from September'

That's after 'all we have to do is vaccinate the vulnerable everybody and we'll let you get back to normal. But yeah, as long as you all keep on 'following the rules', it'll be over soon enough.

Is this a surprise? A lot of vaccines don’t confer lifelong immunity, and this was always an unknown with covid vaccines, but a lot of scientists said from the beginning that boosters could be needed. It’s more likely they’re needed to cover new variant strains of concern which we’re still merrily importing with our leaky borders.

Would you prefer the govt ignored this and just said “ we won’t worry about boosters even if they’re clinically important, because we told you we’d lift restrictions once we’d vaccinated the first time?”
Situations change, so strategy changes. I’ve been very critical of this govt and all their mistakes, it’s good to see some caution being exercised

I m following the rules by default as nothing I want to do is open!...All I want to do is go to Alton Towers!!

Feeling this one - I've been missing funfairs and rides somethin fierce (Waltzer particularly - love those), I want community centres open in-person again, to go swimming - like right now, I just cannot think of what I would want to do that's possible that I'd break the laws for. None of what I want are there anyway.

Post-viral complications are not new, so why give them a fancy name?

Except we do?

Sometimes we group by symptoms particularly when there is evidence of multiple causes for that cluster of symptoms, sometimes we group specifically by the virus involved, but there are multiple 'fancy names' that are given to conditions that develop suddenly after a viral illness. Scientists have discussed it helpful to have long Covid discussed in that way -- both with it's own name and as part of post-viral conditions. It means we can recognize this specific type and research and those dealing with it can use the knowledge and experience of the wider communities and experiences. Lot of people with conditions like mine have been trying to help people with long-covid navigate things.

Though I'm at no greater risk to COVID than the general population, even though my post-viral condition does mess with my vascular system (which I use to my advantage on a Waltzer) - it's a large part of why I've little incentive to break the rules. I'm not scared of any of those things OP, it's simply that going out is often not easy for me especially with seats having been largely removed, I've been having a massive increase in symptoms which means a lot more pain and mobility problems, and my disabilities have left me largely isolated and lonely beyond my household, especially after several deaths in the family. The type of activities I'm most looking forward are just not yet available and socially, most people I know have other priorities so I'm just going to have to rely on Steam for a while. It sucks, I'm mentally shredded to pieces and physically in tatters as my reconditioning work has become such a struggle, but my options are limited.

Their false optimism just leads to disappointment over and over again

I agree @PrincessNutNuts that the messaging is appalling, but I do suspect that if they said it’s another year of this misery a lot of people would lose all motivation to comply. I don’t know what the answer is to that.

@SmileEachDay

Another strawman. Wow, you lockdown fanatics are really outdoing yourselves today

It’s...umm..that’s not a straw man either. Mine was an analogy and this is some historical information about infection control.

Do you really love straw or something?

I already explained that a strawman is an oversimplified analogy to create a position which can then be attacked.

Let me ask you this, once everyone is vaccinated and covid is done with in the years to come, are you going to start going about your life as normal carrying out medical procedures without washing your hands?

I admit to breaking rules although very cautiously - the people I have met up with have all had the virus (positive PCR tests) plus have been vaccinated and most are tested weekly because of their jobs. So in effect not putting anyone at risk but helping with our well-being

@RaspberryCoulis - horrible goady post

It’s the law

I know people through work who have been disciplined for not doing so (out of work hours)

I’m not risking that

Because I want lockdown to end on schedule
Because I'd hate to be responsible for making someone ill
Because other people (nurses etc) are making real sacrifices and I respect & support their efforts
Because I want to teach my DS not to be selfish

@SmileEachDay

what I DON'T agree with is a slow dissolution of the regulations because individuals make decisions based on... what? "Common sense", whatever that is? Convenience? What they want to be the case? Because I don't think in the majority of cases it's scientific knowledge or judgement

Exactly this.

Can you imagine if surgeons in operating theatres decided they couldn’t be arsed with gloves or sterilising equipment? What would happen to infection control?

I know what an analogy is but it’s a poor one. I simply don’t think you can compare asking surgeons to wear gloves and masks in theatre as their employer, to a government taking away the most fundamental and basic of freedoms to leave your house or to see your family.

One is a requirement of an employment contract, the other is a basic human right to liberty which has been curtailed.

I have no friends, so nothing to break rules for.

Actually I have broken rules, last Friday I visited a relative and sat in her house and Thursday I had someone in my house. The reason? To tell them that their sister was dying and the man was the funeral director.

I have no real desire to do anything that involves breaking the rules, but neither am I wearing it as some kind of badge of honour.

Next week I'll break the rules again as I am planning on having additional neighbours in the garden after the funeral. Can't have a wake, but can legally have two households in the garden, so that is 9. A couple of extra neighbours is neither here nor there.

what I DON'T agree with is a slow dissolution of the regulations because individuals make decisions based on... what? "Common sense", whatever that is? Convenience? What they want to be the case? Because I don't think in the majority of cases it's scientific knowledge or judgement

THIS

@espressotogo

Op, in the real world most people are like you. They're not going crazy but, at this stage, they are bending the rules and are not hysterical like most of MN. Most of the things I would like to do like go to the pub or the gym I can't do yet but I am glad that my kids are now back at school and that my son is back at football training - where I get to mix with all the other parents outdoors (much more than 1 other) which is great and very much within the rules - although no doubt considered dangerous by many on here.

For those calling the OP thick and claiming that they listen to the scientists who are qualified to make these judgements - you do realise that there are many other scientists who are equally as qualified and eminent as Chris Whitty et al who do not agree with the measures in place and are of the opinion that lockdowns cause more harm than good ? Just because these people are not on SAGE it doesn't make their opinions any less valid. Also, there is growing evidence that tougher lockdowns vs no actual lockdown doesn't seem to make much difference to the trajectory of the virus. So, while we think that logically lockdowns must work because they prevent social contact, we don't know that they are as effective as we think in preventing transmission - especially when a large % of the cases stemmed from hospitals and care homes.

The vaccine IS the silver bullet and we have now vaccinated much more than the small % (and it is small in context of the population) of people that are likely to die or get seriously ill from it - the first dose gives a high level of protection - and it is this that is the most likely cause of death rates reducing not lockdown. The government can't bang on about its highly successful vaccine roll out but not expect people to question why we are still locked down !

This. Thank you. The hysteria on here is something else! Numerous very senior healthcare professionals DON'T agree with the measures either Inc a fair few intensive care staff. They are horrified at the thwarted narrative we're being fed, plus they are sick of the way health and social care are hiding behind the "can't due to covid" facade. Local CAMHS spots over the phone?! What a load of crap.. It's hard enough to engage teenagers as it is without that being a barrier too. And it's unsafe when you're dealing with risk. I was still doing clinical work at the start of the pandemic and I insisted on doing it F2F.

Nobody is equating the two, @kellehi...

Perhaps you should critique your own logical arguments before trying to pick holes in other people’s. Most posts that you’ve written have contained flawed logic.

@HazeyJaneII

I do have a clinically vulnerable child, who is unvaccinated...but that is not why we as a family are following the rules, we're following them because this is a public health crisis, and as such everyone has to abide by the measures that will help us move on from this shit show.

Exactly the same as us.

And the frustrating thing is those who aren’t willing to do their bit will also be the first to complain if the next stage of opening up is pushed back

And the frustrating thing is those who aren’t willing to do their bit will also be the first to complain if the next stage of opening up is pushed back

Exactly.

@Mintjulia

Because I want lockdown to end on schedule Because I'd hate to be responsible for making someone ill Because other people (nurses etc) are making real sacrifices and I respect & support their efforts Because I want to teach my DS not to be selfish

This too

YABU
Because I don't only think about myself.

@Sirzy does anything less then perfection count as “doing your bit”? So someone who has lost their job due to the lockdown, and not seen their parents for a year (during which their mother died without having seen each other for months), hasn’t “done their bit” if they see 2 friends in their garden tomorrow instead of Monday?