If you're still sticking to ALL the rules/guidance - why?

[RaspberryCoulis]

Will start by saying I am not sticking to the covid rules any more. Obviously I can't go places which aren't open. But we have had people in the house, kids are going out with friends probably in larger numbers than are permitted, we're crossing local authority boundaries which is supposedly illegal in Scotland. Why? Because we've been in lockdown for a year, cases here are very low, and some things are more important than Covid.

But on every thread there are people claiming that they are sticking rigidly to every single rule and guideline, never breaking ANY rule. They would probably say I was a selfish covid-denier who was hellbent on murdering their granny.

So if you're sticking to all the guidelines and rules, without fail - why? People who are clinically extremely vulnerable (officially) I can understand in part if they're not vaccinated. But the rest of you? Is it because you're scared of Covid, or scared of your neighbours, or scared of breaking the law by mistake?

@Mintjulia

Because I want lockdown to end on schedule Because I'd hate to be responsible for making someone ill Because other people (nurses etc) are making real sacrifices and I respect & support their efforts Because I want to teach my DS not to be selfish

Where do you stand on people making sacrifices which they never chose to make? Namely the people who have been made bankrupt as a result of lockdown, and whose children are now homeless. The children who have a parent who has committed suicide because they can't cope with the agony of having 'let their family down' through no fault of their own?

Do you respect and support their efforts, too, or does only Covid count?

My family has lost pretty much everything as a result of lockdown, not as a result of Covid.

I have also taught my DC not to be selfish. Fat lot of good it has done them, because all the decisions have been made by people who don't have a fucking clue about real life, and supported by those who have been largely unaffected.

@LagunaBubbles

Because I'm a Nurse and watching someone die of Covid, especially without their loved ones present, is awful. And because people like you OP exist.

Surely it should be awful watching anyone die.. full stop. Nobody held up any other types of death on a pedestal before...

Why should watching somebody die of something non-Covid be less worse? 'I'm a nurse, so my opinion is instantly worth more than "people like you OP..." Yeah, of course. You put on your halo, and hey presto! You think you are better than the OP...

You don't know anything about them, what difficulties they are facing in their life, what pressures Covid has put on them the previous year to make the decisions they have made... Their job, livelihood, place to live, relatives, physical health, mental state, whatever. Nope, it's 'I'm a nurse, yes I have been on full pay all year, yes sorry the NHS have largely ignored anything non-covid so treatable conditions such as cancer have become terminal, but 'I'm a nurse, so...'

I can just imagine, winter 2021/22 will come along and we'll get 'Another lockdown folks, stay home, save lives, protect the NHS, I'm a nurse', repeat ad nauseum...

@LagunaBubbles

Because I'm a Nurse and watching someone die of Covid, especially without their loved ones present, is awful. And because people like you OP exist.

^^^^
I think this says it all.
Just think about this for one moment and imagine what it is like to be in
@LagunaBubbles shoes.
Or the loved ones present.
This is real.

Because I have no reason to assume that I know better than the scientists and public health experts. Because I can see what's happening on mainland Europe on the news. Because I don't ever want to have someone's death on my conscience. Because it's a small sacrifice compared to my friends who have been working in ICUs.

I follow the rules because they are the law and I don’t want it inadvertedly either catch covid or pass it on to someone. I’m not selfish so why would I not follow them?

@SmileEachDay

Indeed. But there has to be some degree of similarity to the two scenarios or the analogy is meaningless. They can’t be completely different

Yep.
In both cases infection control is the issue. In both cases there is a set of rules in place. In both cases there are individuals making decisions that are against those rules.

More in common than lots of analogies. You don’t like the analogy. That’s fine. That doesn’t mean it’s a bad one.

Here's where the analogy doesn't work...

Once everyone is vaccinated and covid is done with in the years to come, are you going to start going about your life as normal carrying out medical procedures without washing your hands?

Or are you one of those 'masks and socila distancing forever, just in case' type of people?

@kellehi

Why should watching somebody die of something non-Covid be less worse? 'I'm a nurse, so my opinion is instantly worth more than "people like you OP..." Yeah, of course. You put on your halo, and hey presto! You think you are better than the OP...
^^^^^

You're missing the point.
By following the rules you could help stop the spread of covid.

Here's where the analogy doesn't work..

Ooooh, go on, tell me!!

Once everyone is vaccinated and covid is done with in the years to come, are you going to start going about your life as normal carrying out medical procedures without washing your hands

no, that doesn’t mean the analogy doesn’t work.
Also: no, why would I?

*no why would I carry on with masks and social sustaining. Didn’t copy last bit.

Because if everyone did what you’re doing before the adult population is vaccinated, we’ll all suffer from restrictions for a bloody sight longer. What makes you exceptional?

@Snowdrop30

Because I have no reason to assume that I know better than the scientists and public health experts. Because I can see what's happening on mainland Europe on the news. Because I don't ever want to have someone's death on my conscience. Because it's a small sacrifice compared to my friends who have been working in ICUs.

Can you see what's happening in Florida in the news?

You are being very choosy about which scientists and public health experts to follow... Why do you assume the scientists recommending lockdown know more than those recommending a different approach?

Had this awkward conversation with DBro on the phone today 😬

He agrees with your stance on it all OP, however I will be waiting until we get the green light to meet up in Scotland with family in different regions. Not long now.

I forgot an important one - because I can. I am lucky that I have a regular salary and can afford to WFH. I have got MH problems but they are treatable and bearable. I'm not suicidal. I'm not living with someone who hurts or scares me or my children. So - I can. I understand that there are people who are genuinely at risk of harming themselves by now, or need to get out of an abusive situation, or have so little money that they feel forced to do illegal cleaning, childcare etc. No judgement. I can (just) afford to keep paying my cleaner all the way through this - so I have. Those who can, should, in my book. Yes it is subsidising others; I'm at peace with that.

@DenisetheMenace

Because if everyone did what you’re doing before the adult population is vaccinated, we’ll all suffer from restrictions for a bloody sight longer. What makes you exceptional?

In about two weeks, this position will have changed to 'before the entire population, including children is vaccinated, and everyone is having regular six monthly boosters kept up to date'

Because the front page of Telegraph tomorrow will be talking about the over 70's being offered boosters from September' so everyone will have to change their position from 'being vaccinated' to 'being regularly vaccinated'

They'll just keep on telling you what to think...

“Not multiple people. Two people - a couple - on more than one occasion. Not loads of people in and out the house. Children are meeting up outside - does it really matter if there are 5 or 6 13 year olds rather than 4?”

Have you for a moment considered the potential consequences if everyone did the same? Oh, I forgot, it’s all about you.

You’re really not very bright, are you?
Are you Laurence Fox?

@kellehi, in this instance, because I know some of the people working with Chris Whitty. They have the highest regard for his judgement on the data he has available to him about this country. That's good enough for me.

You don't know anything about them, what difficulties they are facing in their life, what pressures Covid has put on them the previous year to make the decisions they have made... Their job, livelihood, place to live, relatives, physical health, mental state, whatever. Nope, it's 'I'm a nurse, yes I have been on full pay all year, yes sorry the NHS have largely ignored anything non-covid so treatable conditions such as cancer have become terminal, but 'I'm a nurse, so...'

I answered the OPs question. That is all. At no point did I say I was better than the OP. You miss the point spectacularly and its sad to me to read your post.

[quote Robin233]@kellehi

Why should watching somebody die of something non-Covid be less worse? 'I'm a nurse, so my opinion is instantly worth more than "people like you OP..." Yeah, of course. You put on your halo, and hey presto! You think you are better than the OP...
^^^^^

You're missing the point.
By following the rules you could help stop the spread of covid. [/quote]
Er, you do know that by far the vast majority of Covid transmission has occurred either as a result of the NHS shipping covid positive patients into care homes, or actually in the NHS itself?

Sticking to rules because I don't want to catch covid, especially now with just 4 months at most to go before I get my first vaccination.

And also because there isn't much I could do to break the rules anyway. Family lives abroad so can't see them, most places are closed, I wfh anyway and don't have a car so can't really go anywhere. So not much to tempt me to break any rules...

@SmileEachDay

Indeed. But there has to be some degree of similarity to the two scenarios or the analogy is meaningless. They can’t be completely different

Yep.
In both cases infection control is the issue. In both cases there is a set of rules in place. In both cases there are individuals making decisions that are against those rules.

More in common than lots of analogies. You don’t like the analogy. That’s fine. That doesn’t mean it’s a bad one.

No, it is a bad one, but yes obviously only in my opinion. I explained what the differences are which make it so, which you didn’t deal with in your answer. You just mentioned some similarities, but Im coming at it from the major differences.

If you think it’s a good comparison then we will agree to disagree. That’s fine, and I don’t think the point you’re making is a bad one. I just think that isn’t a good analogy to demonstrate it because of the significant differences between a fundamental and enshrined human right and a set of rules at work if you’re a surgeon.

Because the front page of Telegraph tomorrow will be talking about the over 70's being offered boosters from September' so everyone will have to change their position from 'being vaccinated' to 'being regularly vaccinated'

They'll just keep on telling you what to think..

Fantastic. Having spent a year locked up with a CEV husband, our son unable to attend College to protect him, I’m bloody delighted that there’ll be - hopefully - annual boosters.

No one tells me what to think. This Govt. is a collective useless shower, I take no guidance from it. We locked down weeks before they finally recognised what was glaringly obviously happening.

OTOH, I have complete faith in science and medicine and with regular boosters we’ll get out of this nightmare.

Er, you do know that by far the vast majority of Covid transmission has occurred either as a result of the NHS shipping covid positive patients into care homes, or actually in the NHS itself?

'Vast majority' of transmission?

Do you have data to support that?

@kellehi

The long term plan was always to have regular boosters, similar to the flu, but there wasn’t enough data to determine how frequently these would be needed. As we gather data, information will rightly change to reflect this. Children may or may not need to be vaccinated. Again, this was always on the table, its not news.

[quote Snowdrop30]@kellehi, in this instance, because I know some of the people working with Chris Whitty. They have the highest regard for his judgement on the data he has available to him about this country. That's good enough for me.[/quote]
Ah, so you'll only accept the views of people because people you know said good things about them?

Can you see what's happening in Florida in the news?

I think there’s a lot about this virus we don’t understand (including the experts!)

yes Florida is doing well. Also India. But on the other hand look at Brazil.

Different countries seem to be affected differently, and we were doing pretty bloody badly over the new year till we locked down. I don’t think we can assume we would have ended up like Florida.