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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask you not to judge all Muslims by the actions of the men outside the school

240 replies

flashbac · 27/03/2021 09:23

Hi

It shouldn't need saying but...

Please don't judge us all by the actions of a vocal few.

Some have already acknowledged the protesters were mostly if not all angry young men with seemingly nothing better to do. They don't represent all Muslims.

As Batley's late former MP said:
"We are far more united and have far more in common than that which divides us.”

OP posts:
Cadent · 28/03/2021 14:25

@makingmammaries nope you said Muslims set story by their communities and families so that’s why they should be in the streets.

That’s holding Muslims to higher account. Don’t do it.

makingmammaries · 28/03/2021 14:28

@makingmammaries nope you said Muslims set story by their communities and families so that’s why they should be in the streets.

I said they should go and tell their men to stop making arses of themselves if they don’t want to be judged for what the men are doing. I stand by that. Same applies to anyone, Muslim or not.

Cadent · 28/03/2021 14:34

You said ‘They set store by their communities and families and presumably by their good name’, and now you won’t even admit it. Pathetic.

kellehi · 28/03/2021 14:42

[quote KurtWilde]@kellehi this has nothing to do with misogyny. It's not because they were men it's because they were Muslim. Police have to be very careful when dealing with religious zealots and yes, it is double standards but not in the way you think. [/quote]
You didn't read the post that I quoted then? I am not arguing about this protest having anything to do with misogyny...

The rant I was referring to is reproduced below... I was referring to the misogyny in this single specific post...

Please don’t set up a false equivalence with the hugely problematic #notallmen.

In the case of sexual violence against women, the problem is an overwhelming one which almost all women have experienced at some time or another. There is a massive issue with the way men as a category behave towards women.

This is not remotely the case with Muslims. The overwhelming majority of Muslims are not aggressive, violent or dangerous. And the overwhelming majority of non-Muslims in this country have never faced any kind of persecution by Muslims. When it comes to Muslims, it is right to distinguish the actions of those who are violent and dangerous from the majority, because the vast majority are neither of those things.

Hope that clears things up for you.

makingmammaries · 28/03/2021 14:44

You said ‘They set store by their communities and families and presumably by their good name’, and now you won’t even admit it. Pathetic

Sure I said that. Because they do. So why wouldn’t I admit it. What I didn’t say is that they should be “in the streets”, as you claim, other than to go and get their men home (or at least be seen to try)

woodhill · 28/03/2021 14:46

@Cadent

Yes, because Muslims don’t have homes, jobs, kids, families, they need to be out in the streets ushering people home 🙄
So don't the protestors have the same issues? Too much time on their hands it seems
Cadent · 28/03/2021 14:47

@makingmammaries

You said ‘They set store by their communities and families and presumably by their good name’, and now you won’t even admit it. Pathetic

Sure I said that. Because they do. So why wouldn’t I admit it. What I didn’t say is that they should be “in the streets”, as you claim, other than to go and get their men home (or at least be seen to try)

You are making generalisations about Muslims, treating them as a homogenous Muslims. That’s dangerous and unhelpful.
Flaxmeadow · 28/03/2021 14:52

To ask you not to judge all Muslims by the actions of the men outside the school

I'm wondering if this should be the other way around. That you should be asking Muslims not to judge all non Muslims

Assuming the teacher is white and non Muslim. At his workplace he is a minority in Batley and if he also lives in East Batley he is at home as well. East Batley is 54% Muslim (West Batley is 33%)

Under national so called "hate crime" laws though he would not be protected because white people aren't, which ironically is hateful in itself. The grooming gang victims weren't protected under "hate crime" laws due to this either

LexMitior · 28/03/2021 14:55

This ridiculous protest is exactly why you should have more classes with discussion and critique of religions and other ideas in school. Not less.

If Batley doesn't want a teacher like this then there are plenty of schools that still understand the idea of education. Batley can have the special schools where the kids can't handle big ideas because the local minds are too small to handle it.

makingmammaries · 28/03/2021 15:08

You are making generalisations about Muslims, treating them as a homogenous Muslims. That’s dangerous and unhelpful.

Muslims are followers of Islam. The holy book of Islam is the Koran. The Koran and Islamic law in general set out rules as to Muslims should live. Those rules are focused on family, community, and what is proper behaviour.

What is dangerous and unhelpful about any of that?
Dear families of the men at the gates, please go and tell your men to go home.

FrippEnos · 28/03/2021 15:08

CloudFormations

Please don’t set up a false equivalence with the hugely problematic #notallmen.

Its only problematic if you have issues with the truth.

Proudboomer · 28/03/2021 15:12

.

To ask you not to judge all Muslims by the actions of the men outside the school
FrippEnos · 28/03/2021 15:12

flashbac

They flipping did. I'm getting annoyed at people thinking there was no response appealing for calm. Just because the media didn't show you it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

As big a part of the problem is that the press/media are not reporting this, or only as a very small paragraph in the whole article

KurtWilde · 28/03/2021 15:55

@kellehi I already apologies and said my post was aimed at someone else not you.

Karmakarmachameleon · 28/03/2021 16:41

Of course there isn’t any equivalence between #notallmen and asking people not to judge all Muslims by the actions of a handful.

For a start, sex and religion are wildly different characteristics and lumping them together is stupid.

The problem with #notallmen is that virtually all violence against women is violence by men. It’s a sex-based problem.

It’s clearly not the case that virtually all violence against non-Muslim people is carried out by Muslims. Or that 97% of non-Muslims have experienced harassment by Muslims.

I think things are far too frequently attributed to race or religion rather than sex. ‘Islamic terrorism’ is just another sub-category of male violence.

OppsUpsSide · 28/03/2021 16:49

‘Islamic terrorism’ is just another sub-category of male violence.

I completely agree with this, the religion is used by some men to dominate and abuse and be violent. If it wasn’t their chosen branch of Islam it would be something else.

kellehi · 28/03/2021 18:15

Interesting to note the two different approaches taken by the same police force.

The Batley protest where extreme violent threats were made to a British member of the public by a particular demographic in comparison to the extremely violent reaction by the police towards peaceful anti lockdown protesters just 12 miles down the road.

Moonstone1234 · 28/03/2021 18:20

Where are all the partners of these men?

saraclara · 28/03/2021 18:26

@Moonstone1234

Where are all the partners of these men?
So now it's the women to blame for not keeping their men under control?
kellehi · 28/03/2021 18:29

@Moonstone1234

Where are all the partners of these men?
Doing as they are told, and staying home presumably...
Warsawa31 · 28/03/2021 18:37

It's the same with any protestors - they all think that everyone agrees with them because look how many of us are here but the millions who aren't speak volumes right?

We don't have blasphemy laws in the U.K. so the teacher didn't breaks any laws. I think the subject was supposed to show the content that caused the murder of the illustrators at Charlie hebdo ? Reasonable enough for me - and people have the right to protest it as well.

The protests last year in Birmingham against the teaching of LQBT relationships was very interesting - a fundamental clash between the secular society and Islam. That isn't going away.

Muslims like all other religions are individual people who interpret the texts in their own way and act accordingly

kellehi · 28/03/2021 20:18

Given the number of laws we have the Batley protestors could all be arrested and tried for hate crimes, public order, threatening behaviour, malicious communication etc.

They are also not the sort of people who should be able to exert any influence over children. Children are taken into care for far less. Once again we see selective enforcement of the law which is becoming a daily occurrence in this country.

Moonstone1234 · 28/03/2021 20:21

Sorry, I meant why are all the protesters men. I am very uncomfortable with all of this.

OppsUpsSide · 28/03/2021 20:26

Once again we see selective enforcement of the law which is becoming a daily occurrence in this country.

I think a lot of people have noticed and are very unhappy about this. It would do anything to help the fundamental clash Warsaw commented on, and like Warsaw said, it isn’t going to just go away.

kellehi · 28/03/2021 20:56

@Moonstone1234

Sorry, I meant why are all the protesters men. I am very uncomfortable with all of this.
For the same reason certain buildings in the UK are allowed to have a sign that says 'Ladies entrance at the side/rear of the building' when it would never be allowed in any other circumstances