To ask you not to judge all Muslims by the actions of the men outside the school

[flashbac]

Hi

It shouldn't need saying but...

Please don't judge us all by the actions of a vocal few.

Some have already acknowledged the protesters were mostly if not all angry young men with seemingly nothing better to do. They don't represent all Muslims.

As Batley's late former MP said:
"We are far more united and have far more in common than that which divides us.”

@CloudFormations

#notallmuslims

Please don’t set up a false equivalence with the hugely problematic #notallmen.

In the case of sexual violence against women, the problem is an overwhelming one which almost all women have experienced at some time or another. There is a massive issue with the way men as a category behave towards women.

This is not remotely the case with Muslims. The overwhelming majority of Muslims are not aggressive, violent or dangerous. And the overwhelming majority of non-Muslims in this country have never faced any kind of persecution by Muslims. When it comes to Muslims, it is right to distinguish the actions of those who are violent and dangerous from the majority, because the vast majority are neither of those things.

I snipped out your misandrist ranting... There is not a massive issue with the way men as a category behave towards women, any more than there is a massive issue with the way Muslims behave towards non-Muslims

The overwhelming majority of men are not aggressive, violent or dangerous either. When it comes to men, it is right to distinguish the actions of those who are violent and dangerous from the majority, because the vast majority are neither of those things.

However, you can't eat your cake and have it too. You can't say #notallmen is problematic, but #notallmuslims is perfectly fine.

@Justanotherlurker

I think the teacher was highly insensitive and should have used different visual examples. I also think using those particular examples with school children indicates that the teacher has insufficient comprehension of the nuances, which isn’t good practice in teaching.

You are trying to say there should be blasphemy laws for one specific religion, this is a very slippery slope to take.

No, I wasn’t trying to say any such thing. I said precisely what I wanted to say about teaching practice, which is nothing to do with blasphemy laws. But if you would like to start a discussion about blasphemy laws I’m open to that. Perhaps start a different thread though, because it isn’t relevant to this one.

What I don't get is how come these protestors get treated with kid gloves, are allowed to congregate and mouth off with impunity, the police appear to stand by and not close down this protest whilst we are being told protests cannot happen because of covid and if you are a woman wanting to protest the murder of an innocent woman, you are not able to protest, will be aggressively policed and told that you can't protest because of covid rules. Why the double standards? It's not only misogynistic but absolutely unfair that there appear to be different rules for different groups and that violence and aggression are basically met with appeasement.

@catspider

What I don't get is how come these protestors get treated with kid gloves, are allowed to congregate and mouth off with impunity, the police appear to stand by and not close down this protest whilst we are being told protests cannot happen because of covid and if you are a woman wanting to protest the murder of an innocent woman, you are not able to protest, will be aggressively policed and told that you can't protest because of covid rules. Why the double standards? It's not only misogynistic but absolutely unfair that there appear to be different rules for different groups and that violence and aggression are basically met with appeasement.

Probably for the same reason there was no vigil for Lorraine Cox...

They should expect a reaction if they are going to mock people in this manner. Its wrong to show things like this in schools.

And what sort of reaction is acceptable?

A school closed down for two days because of a baying mob outside?

The teacher's name made public, knowing what is likely to happen to him, based on past evidence?

The fact that he will not be able to return to work, and likely will have to change his name and go into hiding forever?

Is this an acceptable reaction?

@kellehi this has nothing to do with misogyny. It's not because they were men it's because they were Muslim. Police have to be very careful when dealing with religious zealots and yes, it is double standards but not in the way you think.

There are definitely double standards when it comes to Islamic extremists. They are like the bully that you need to placate to stop them doing something really bad.

Every man I know would openly condemn sexual violence towards women. Not every Muslim will condemn these protests.

I would never condemn every Muslim for their extremists and know some Muslims who are wonderful, kind people who embrace and support all people from all communities.

However, I think that the community does need to take a look at how they treat their extremists.

Sorry that was meant as a response to @catspider

Let me add that I live in an area that has a Muslim majority, and for the most part we've embraced our cultural diversity and there are few problems. But there will always be a few - of all races, religions and gender - who tar the name of the rest. And as long as their voices are louder than the ones who should be condemning that behaviour, they'll continue to give everyone else a bad name. I have seen how police are far more gentle in their approach with certain religions and races in my area, because they're frightened of causing unrest and being labelled racist or Islamaphobic. For me, that's something that needs addressing.

Isn't this the not all men are like that arguement which people so hate when applied to the protected characteristic of sex but obviously not when applied to the protected characteristic of religion. Yes not all Muslims are protesting and beheading however across here and france virtually all of those were Muslim (and actually at a much higher rate than the male violence as a proportion of the population).

@catspider

What I don't get is how come these protestors get treated with kid gloves, are allowed to congregate and mouth off with impunity, the police appear to stand by and not close down this protest whilst we are being told protests cannot happen because of covid and if you are a woman wanting to protest the murder of an innocent woman, you are not able to protest, will be aggressively policed and told that you can't protest because of covid rules. Why the double standards? It's not only misogynistic but absolutely unfair that there appear to be different rules for different groups and that violence and aggression are basically met with appeasement.

Exactly that, why are they not being questioned about their reasons for travelling and fined like perfectly innocent people who have dared to go to a beauty spot for some leisure.

Surely they have no business to be there

For the comments above I was referring to the Charlie hebdo cartoons protests and attacks in France

Hi, OP.

Hope you're okay. It's so sad that you should have to justify yourself because you share a religion/race with individuals who have done wrong.

It's only minorities that have to do this. It's really peculiar.

Just waiting for rentagob, Tommy Robinson, to put his tuppence in about the "state" of Islam. But still waiting, in vain, on his take on police brutality...

Having read about it, why on earth would a teacher use a deliberately insulting cartoon in a lesson?!

Why on earth would people vandalise and destroy statues, burn flags, make fun of the Pope, put models of Jesus in urine and call it "art" when they know that is offensive to a lot of people? Why are some offensive actions seen as ok but others seen as terrible disrespectful and asking for trouble? Why are different types of protest and protestors treated differently by the authorities?

No-one in their right mind thinks all Muslims act in the uneducated and ill mannered way that these particular people have been acting

I agree completely, but would add that it might be nice to see more action taken against the minority who do behave like this - and that goes for whatever minority religion they happen to belong to

A lot gets said about "community sensitivities", but I'm not sure it helps overall when resentment builds up because some enjoy such a hands off approach

[quote KurtWilde]@kellehi this has nothing to do with misogyny. It's not because they were men it's because they were Muslim. Police have to be very careful when dealing with religious zealots and yes, it is double standards but not in the way you think. [/quote]
Yes, that was my point. I was referring to the PP's ranting about it being all men that were the problem...

If these men are an embarrassment, which is what your post seems to suggest, the Muslim community needs to rein them in.

For context, I think the cartoons are disrespectful and I dislike the whole “I am Charlie” movement.

However, given the amount of social control Islam manages to exert over its followers, if the community wants to be seen as acting in good faith it needs to get out there and send these men (why only men?) home.

Every man I know would openly condemn sexual violence towards women. Not every Muslim will condemn these protests.

Do you ask all white people to condemn what what pro-Trump protestors did?

Muslims are not a homogenous mass.

Yes, because Muslims don’t have homes, jobs, kids, families, they need to be out in the streets ushering people home 🙄

Such horrible views about Muslims from some and then they’ll be moaning on another thread why Muslims aren’t ‘integrating’.

@Cadent

Every man I know would openly condemn sexual violence towards women. Not every Muslim will condemn these protests.

Do you ask all white people to condemn what what pro-Trump protestors did?

Muslims are not a homogenous mass.

Why do you keep making references to what people in America do?

Yes, because Muslims don’t have homes, jobs, kids, families, they need to be out in the streets ushering people home 🙄

They set store by their communities and families and presumably by their good name. So yes, how difficult would it be to go and tell their husbands, brothers, sons to go home? If it’s they difficult, the problem is indeed a big one.

why should a particular religious group be able to hold the world to ransom because they feel offended? Basically they are saying conform to our standards or else we will riot/kill. I get not all muslims probably think this but yet this happens every time re. images of.mohammed. Yes, its shit to feel offended and religous sensitivities should be cared for to an extent in places like schools, but not one favoured over another. The teacher didnt not break any law in this country ffs. If he had shown a cartoon mocking Jesus people would just shrug and say free speech, even if christians are offended by it. I remember seeing some pretty anti Christian/church imagery on social media around the time when Poland recently introduced tighter abortion control (i agree people had the right to protest this, 100%) and most Christians i know, while not liking the images recognised other people had a right to express themselves or use them to discuss the issues at hand.

Why not? Je suis Charlie came about due to events in France.

@makingmammaries

Yes, because Muslims don’t have homes, jobs, kids, families, they need to be out in the streets ushering people home 🙄

They set store by their communities and families and presumably by their good name. So yes, how difficult would it be to go and tell their husbands, brothers, sons to go home? If it’s they difficult, the problem is indeed a big one.

You are holding Muslims to higher account than non-Muslims. Please don’t do that, that’s dangerous and unhelpful.

You are holding Muslims to higher account than non-Muslims. Please don’t do that, that’s dangerous and unhelpful.

Nope. If my husband, brother or son is publicly making an arse of himself I’ll be out there telling him to stop. And, if I fail to do that, there will be some disapproval coming my way. Families are supposed to look out for their members, communities too.