Daughters carer refused covid vaccine

[Nevic84]

My daughter 6 has multiple health needs mainly a tracheostomy but also a weakened immune system and minor heart defect.
She’s a happy and otherwise healthy child.
But she’s classed as clinically extremely vulnerable.
She has 1:1 carers as her condition is life threatening.
Her main carer has refused covid vaccine.
Not for any religious or health reasons she doesn’t want to be bullied into having it and if she gets it she’ll get it when she wants and not before (her words)
In her personal life she’s not following covid restrictions and having people over her house and going into other peoples house and visiting public places a lot only wearing mask when mandatory.
What’s peoples opinions and how would they deal with it?
Aibu to think if you work in care you would care enough to want to protect those who couldn’t be protected?
I worry about my daughter everyday I feel scared for her.
As an employer I can’t force her to have it.

@Lavanderrose

How does it effect you? We don’t know if the vaccine reduces transmission yet. Surely she’s still following safety measures anyway? Washing hands, mask wearing etr.

@Lavanderrose How does it affect the mother of a very sick child? Are you for real?

Yes, we DO know the vaccine reduces transmission.

That's why the VACCINE EXISTS.

And if you read the OP's posts, the 'carer' is NOT following safety measures. She is breaking the laws and mixing with others, and refuses to wear the mask at school with the child.

@Muchtoomuchtodo

I’m a AHP working in the NHS (with ECV patients). Out of our team of 7, 2 have so far declined to be vaccinated. It’s absolutely none of my business why, it’s their choice. Once that injection has been done, there’s no removing it.

I’ve had both of my jabs, but wasn’t given a sticker and unfortunately have lost my wallet containing the card since having it. Doesn’t mean I’m not fully vaccinated though.

And I’ll ask again, for those who are willing for the unvanncinated to be sacked, do you think the same about those who don’t have the annual flu vaccine or the MMR?

MMR if they're working with vulnerable people, yes.

Carers should have to have the same vaccinations as hospital staff

[quote Lavanderrose]@Voice0fReason the thing is there might be people who cannot have the vaccine due to medical issues. Thus it could be seen as discrimination.[/quote]
Again, how does that work with hospital staff?

@Lavanderrose

Personally I don’t think you should follow people’s advice on getting rid of her because she won’t have the vaccine. You could be taken to tribunal for unfair dismissal since the vaccine is not compulsory.

@Lavanderrose Who cares if the vaccine is compulsory or not? What does that have to do with anything? The OP can decide that it's a condition of employment that the 'carer' has the vaccine. And that's her right to. Nurses must have the Hepatitis vaccine. Many other occupations require vaccines such as the Tetanus vaccine, as a condition of employment. None of these vaccines are 'compulsory' per se, but they are for certain occupations. OP could take legal action against the 'carer' for negligence and harm if her child gets sick.

@Muchtoomuchtodo

I’m a AHP working in the NHS (with ECV patients). Out of our team of 7, 2 have so far declined to be vaccinated. It’s absolutely none of my business why, it’s their choice. Once that injection has been done, there’s no removing it.

I’ve had both of my jabs, but wasn’t given a sticker and unfortunately have lost my wallet containing the card since having it. Doesn’t mean I’m not fully vaccinated though.

And I’ll ask again, for those who are willing for the unvanncinated to be sacked, do you think the same about those who don’t have the annual flu vaccine or the MMR?

Yes I feel the same about the MMR. The UK lost its measles free status a few years ago. Because the disease is so highly infectious, it takes a tiny decline in uptake to threaten a community.

@Dobbyafreeelf

I'm a bit on the fence about this. As a self employed carer i total understand the need for vaccinations but at the same time I dislike the idea of being forced to a) have a vaccination or b) divulge any medical information to clients. My personal life and medical history are private and my own affair. Fwiw I have had my first vaccination. But if this had happened 5years ago I wouldn't have been able to. I was suffering from serious nerve damage in my arm and wouldn't have been able to tolerate a needle. But I also wouldn't have wanted to or felt comfortable with having to share that with clients.

@Dobbyafreeelf I was suffering from serious nerve damage in my arm and wouldn't have been able to tolerate a needle.

Don't you have more than one arm?

@Muchtoomuchtodo

I’m a AHP working in the NHS (with ECV patients). Out of our team of 7, 2 have so far declined to be vaccinated. It’s absolutely none of my business why, it’s their choice. Once that injection has been done, there’s no removing it.

I’ve had both of my jabs, but wasn’t given a sticker and unfortunately have lost my wallet containing the card since having it. Doesn’t mean I’m not fully vaccinated though.

And I’ll ask again, for those who are willing for the unvanncinated to be sacked, do you think the same about those who don’t have the annual flu vaccine or the MMR?

I’m an AHP with CEV patients too and have had both mine.

I think it’s selfish of staff to not have the vaccine and I’d feel the same about mmr too.

I’ve a feeling it’s more about them not wanting to be told what to do and it’ll be interesting if it becomes essential for certain things like travel whether these people change their minds when they can get something out of it for themselves....

@Lollipop888 you're so right

@Cokie3 read my 19:01 update 🙄

@Lavanderrose

People here saying get rid. But finding a good carer is not so easy, you’ll have to go through all the training again, plus your child and the carer will need to build up a relationship. If the carer is following your protective measures, has access to regular testing, then it’s their choice if they chose to have the vaccine or not. (I’m pro vaccine by the way) in a few months everything will be opening back up again anyway with no limit on social restrictions... You could also be breaking the law if you advertise for carers who’ve only had the vaccine.

@Lavanderrose The OP clearly does not have a good carer as it is. The 'carer' is NOT following protective measures, OP has stated this already. And the OP can make it a condition of employment that the carer has the vaccine. It is perfectly legal for the OP to advertise for a carer who has had the vaccine, you are being ridiculous by suggesting she could be breaking the law for advertising for a carer who has had the vaccine. MANY jobs require a vaccine of some sort. That, is PERFECTLY LEGAL. And you are deeply delusional if you think in a few months, everything will have 'opened back up again anyway with no limit on social restrictions'. Deeply, deeply delusional. And unicorns exist! The way the UK is going, I predict it will be two to three years - minimum, before everything is open again with 'no limit on social restrictions'. The OP's daughter doesn't have the luxury of having her life risked for two to three years.

[quote Lavanderrose]@Voice0fReason the thing is there might be people who cannot have the vaccine due to medical issues. Thus it could be seen as discrimination.[/quote]
@Lavanderrose Then if they can't have the vaccine due to medical issues, they simply cannot work as a carer.

Really very simple.

She will have her reasons for not having the vaccine. But that, combined with other choices she is making, I wouldn't have her looking after my child.

@Cokie3 no it really isn't that simple. It's discrimination whether you like it or not!

@Miasicarisatia

Those who are Critical of this vaccine refusing care worker speak as if care work is a sought-after and highly paid profession...

@Miasicarisatia So that makes it alright, does it? So the OP should accept less than acceptable? The OP should settle for less, just because it's not a sought-after and highly paid profession? I really am struggling to understand the rationale of some people on there.

@Dobbyafreeelf I read it after I posted. It still didn't explain anything. You willingly offered the information that you suffered nerve damage in 'a' arm. But then refused to elaborate further.

@XenoBitch Ummmm.......because the vaccine has not existed for a year, only NOW. That's why. Are you really this dense? confused It matters NOW because there is vaccine NOW.

ANd if the vaccine was not available for another year but the carer had already expressed not wanting to have it?
Yes, maybe I am dense and struggling to understand... but there really is no need for you to be so damn rude. I have a family member trying to pull the "I wont see you unless you get the vaccine" on me despite the fact I have been seeing them throughout the pandemic. Absolutely nothing has changed apart from a vaccine being out.

[quote Dobbyafreeelf]@Cokie3 no it really isn't that simple. It's discrimination whether you like it or not![/quote]
@Dobbyafreeelf You are being ridiculous. Is it 'discrimination' that nurses must have the Hepatitis vaccine? Or that some jobs, like the Police, say you must have the Tetanus vaccine? Is that 'discrimination'?

Or simply a basic Term of Employment?

It is NOT 'discrimination', whether you like it or not!

@XenoBitch

Because a vaccine exists NOW. It didn't exist back then. Just because it didn't exist back then, is not justification for not getting it now. It exists now, and people should be getting the vaccine now.

Not having a vaccine prior to now does not justify taking further unnecessary risk, when you can just have the vaccine. Why take a risk that is no longer necessary?

@Miasicarisatia So that makes it alright, does it?
Hi Cokie, it makes it a sort of stalemate situation as far as I can see☹️ carework ought to be much more highly paid and respected but because it isn't there are difficulties finding staff to fill vacancies and employers have very little leverage
i'm not sure what the solution is 🤷🏼‍♀️

Are you advocating for mandatory covid vaccination @Cokie3?

[quote Dobbyafreeelf]@Cokie3 no it really isn't that simple. It's discrimination whether you like it or not![/quote]
Discrimination against what though? A lot of the discrimination legislation works around reasonableness. It is reasonable to want carers of a vulnerable person to be vaccinated. Yes, that is tough on those who can't be vaccinated on medical grounds but that doesn't automatically mean they can claim discrimination.
If you choose not to have the vaccine, then I wouldn't have thought you'd stand a chance in a discrimination claim.

@Miasicarisatia Only for those who work with sick and vulnerable people. Apparently it's already compulsory for nurses to Hepatitis vaccine, so what's the difference with one more vaccine being compulsory for Healthcare workers? I don't think it's unreasonable for people who care for sick and immune compromised people to have the vaccine as a term of their employment.

[quote XenoBitch]**@XenoBitch Ummmm.......because the vaccine has not existed for a year, only NOW. That's why. Are you really this dense? confused It matters NOW because there is vaccine NOW.

ANd if the vaccine was not available for another year but the carer had already expressed not wanting to have it?
Yes, maybe I am dense and struggling to understand... but there really is no need for you to be so damn rude. I have a family member trying to pull the "I wont see you unless you get the vaccine" on me despite the fact I have been seeing them throughout the pandemic. Absolutely nothing has changed apart from a vaccine being out.[/quote]
Absolutely nothing has changed apart from the fact that a substantial amount has changed. You have a new mechanism for mitigating risk. The decisions someone accepted a year ago no longer have to be tolerated now, if there’s a better alternative.

If there’s a medical advance we don’t go around saying ‘well, people clearly managed just fine without it, why are they whinging about its importance now??’

@RockingMyFiftiesNot there's a difference between CHOOSING not to have a vaccine and not being able to have it on medical grounds though.
I'm not disputing the need for the vaccine but I am uncomfortable with having to share private medical information with clients. Especially when there are options to routinely be testing for covid, and very quickly.
It's also a different matter taking someone on with having the vaccine as a condition and forcing an existing employee who hasn't agreed to that as a condition of employment.

Absolutely her choice not to have the vaccine

Absolutely your choice not to have her anywhere near your CEV child.

If it was me I would tell her thank you for everything you've done, but goodbye