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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Daughters carer refused covid vaccine

267 replies

Nevic84 · 25/03/2021 20:20

My daughter 6 has multiple health needs mainly a tracheostomy but also a weakened immune system and minor heart defect.
She’s a happy and otherwise healthy child.
But she’s classed as clinically extremely vulnerable.
She has 1:1 carers as her condition is life threatening.
Her main carer has refused covid vaccine.
Not for any religious or health reasons she doesn’t want to be bullied into having it and if she gets it she’ll get it when she wants and not before (her words)
In her personal life she’s not following covid restrictions and having people over her house and going into other peoples house and visiting public places a lot only wearing mask when mandatory.
What’s peoples opinions and how would they deal with it?
Aibu to think if you work in care you would care enough to want to protect those who couldn’t be protected?
I worry about my daughter everyday I feel scared for her.
As an employer I can’t force her to have it.

OP posts:
Binglebong · 26/03/2021 10:19

RedskyyyFlowers

tiredwardsister · 26/03/2021 10:23

“Raises all sorts of questions about what else she chooses not to do”
I know I’m sounding pedantic but safe guarding concerns are based on evidence not speculation you cannot assume failure to wear PPE means other issues are going on. Either the OP as her employer or the registered nurse supervising her should insist that she wears PPE as I said above assuming she has been asked to wear it and it is being provided then she needs to be reminded to wear in a minuted 1:1 then if she stills fails to comply then put through a disciplinary. That is the correct way of addressing the issue. By doing it that way you are safe guarding the child. If the OP or registered nurse supervising her is aware that she’s not wearing the provided PPE and have done nothing about it then they are technically equally at fault but the situation can still be addressed by a formal 1:1.

Spikeyball · 26/03/2021 10:27

It's her choice not to have the vaccine and her choice to behave irresponsibly but in doing so she is also choosing to put your child at risk.

I would start looking for someone else. I know that is hard as we have a child with complex needs and direct payments.

I also it can be better not to depend on one person although I understand the difficulty in finding suitable people.

HoppingPavlova · 26/03/2021 10:29

Does she wear full PPE when dealing with your daughter? If so, there’s really nothing for you to be up in arms about. If not, she can be directed to wear it as a condition of employment and if she refuses then she goes. You can’t however make anyone have the vax, but you can force full PPE. If you are the employer you need to provide the PPE.

DareIask · 26/03/2021 10:29

@tiredwardsister

“Raises all sorts of questions about what else she chooses not to do” I know I’m sounding pedantic but safe guarding concerns are based on evidence not speculation you cannot assume failure to wear PPE means other issues are going on. Either the OP as her employer or the registered nurse supervising her should insist that she wears PPE as I said above assuming she has been asked to wear it and it is being provided then she needs to be reminded to wear in a minuted 1:1 then if she stills fails to comply then put through a disciplinary. That is the correct way of addressing the issue. By doing it that way you are safe guarding the child. If the OP or registered nurse supervising her is aware that she’s not wearing the provided PPE and have done nothing about it then they are technically equally at fault but the situation can still be addressed by a formal 1:1.
And you would do all of this as it is a safeguarding concern, as well as performance/disciplinary.

I didn't mention a referral to social care at this point.

Crabbypaddy · 26/03/2021 10:36

Receiving the vaccine does not stop her contracting or transmitting the virus. Not sure how many posts regarding this I need to repeat that

Belladonna12 · 26/03/2021 10:41

@Crabbypaddy

Receiving the vaccine does not stop her contracting or transmitting the virus. Not sure how many posts regarding this I need to repeat that
You can repeat yourself as much as you like but if what you're saying is rubbish it is not going to make any difference. Evidence suggests quite strongly now that someone who is vaccinated will have less chance of being infected and passing on the infection.
Belladonna12 · 26/03/2021 10:51

@HoppingPavlova

Does she wear full PPE when dealing with your daughter? If so, there’s really nothing for you to be up in arms about. If not, she can be directed to wear it as a condition of employment and if she refuses then she goes. You can’t however make anyone have the vax, but you can force full PPE. If you are the employer you need to provide the PPE.
Isn't it fortunate that a full PPE works?Hmm It's not as if around 40,000 hospital inpatients have been infected with Covid whilst in hospital in the last few months... OP may not be able to force her to get a vaccine but she doesn't have to employer her.
DareIask · 26/03/2021 10:59

The bottom line for me as a parent would be this carer isn't doing everything in her power to give my daughter the best, safest care.

Any arguments about the vaccine, the PPE, whether she can improve would be irrelevant for me as a mother.

As an employer it would of course be different.

Bluntness100 · 26/03/2021 11:02

@Crabbypaddy

Receiving the vaccine does not stop her contracting or transmitting the virus. Not sure how many posts regarding this I need to repeat that
You can stop now, stand down, we all know it significantly reduces it and gives the ops daughter a higher level of protection, repeating your self that it doesn’t stop it totally is really a bit pointless.
thriftyhen · 26/03/2021 11:04

I would 100% get a new carer. Your daughter's safety is your top priority.

Serendipity79 · 26/03/2021 11:12

I don't believe in forced vaccination - I am pro vaccines myself, but I do think you cant take away a fundamental choice like that, even if I dont agree with those who dont have them. So I dont think anyone can legally be penalised for not having the Covid vaccine.

However, working as a carer, breaking the Covid laws (whether people like it or not they're laws) and refusing to wear PPE are in my mind behaviours which are endangering the very vulnerable people that they should be protecting. And for that I would dismiss her.

GoWalkabout · 26/03/2021 11:17

Daily testing +

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 26/03/2021 11:20

An article re wilful neglect and care roles...

www.counselmagazine.co.uk/articles/wilful-neglect

Belladonna12 · 26/03/2021 11:21

@Serendipity79

I don't believe in forced vaccination - I am pro vaccines myself, but I do think you cant take away a fundamental choice like that, even if I dont agree with those who dont have them. So I dont think anyone can legally be penalised for not having the Covid vaccine.

However, working as a carer, breaking the Covid laws (whether people like it or not they're laws) and refusing to wear PPE are in my mind behaviours which are endangering the very vulnerable people that they should be protecting. And for that I would dismiss her.

What do you mean that they can't "legally be penalised"? Of course people can be penalised. Employers don't have to give a reason for getting rid of anyone if they have worked there for less than two years. Even if it's more than two years, they can still be dismissed and it would be up to the employee to take the case to an employment tribunal for unfair dismissal. In the circumstances it may not be considered unfair to dismiss someone who hasn't been vaccinated.
lunar1 · 26/03/2021 11:26

A tracheostomy makes your DD much more prone to infection, I would get rid of the carer.

XenoBitch · 26/03/2021 11:59

@Cokie3

No, are you serious? How on earth did you somehow arrive to the conclusion that I am not taking things seriously by my post? Which was asking a legitimate question?

Why sack someone for not having the vaccine when they they have not had the vaccine for the past year anyway? Why does it matter suddenly now?

Belladonna12 · 26/03/2021 12:02

Why sack someone for not having the vaccine when they they have not had the vaccine for the past year anyway? Why does it matter suddenly now?

Bizarre question. They couldn't have the vaccine previously so OP had to take the risk. It must of been very stressful and why should she want to continue taking it if she doesn't have to?

Beetlewing · 26/03/2021 12:25

She doesn't sound like she could be relied on to follow basic health and safety directives.

LilMidge01 · 26/03/2021 13:51

She wears PPE at home for insurance purposes but wouldnt wear it when supporting your daughter at school because she will 'look silly'?

Honestly, whilst she might be very good with your daughter and have a good bond with her, ulitmately she has clearly demonstrated that your daughter's health is NOT her priority and actually is very far down her list of priorities (so much so, that it is below going on holiday and 'looking silly').

I know it will be difficult in the short term as your daughter has a good bond with her....but she most likely won't be her carer forever either....I would find a new carer and do the difficult bit now. God forbid your daughter does get Covid (and I sincerely hope not), you will be having enough to deal with without also potentially worrying and blaming yourself for not having changed carer. It's just not worth the risk IMO

LilMidge01 · 26/03/2021 13:53

@Serendipity79

I don't believe in forced vaccination - I am pro vaccines myself, but I do think you cant take away a fundamental choice like that, even if I dont agree with those who dont have them. So I dont think anyone can legally be penalised for not having the Covid vaccine.

However, working as a carer, breaking the Covid laws (whether people like it or not they're laws) and refusing to wear PPE are in my mind behaviours which are endangering the very vulnerable people that they should be protecting. And for that I would dismiss her.

Completely agree with everything here.

It's more her disregard for prioritising your daughter's health than dismissing her for not having the vaccine. Vaccine is just the cherry on top.

Spudbyanyothername · 26/03/2021 13:54

Why sack someone for not having the vaccine when they they have not had the vaccine for the past year anyway? Why does it matter suddenly now?

There was no vaccine last year! Lockdown is easing. The virus is still present. All vulnerable adults but not this child can be vaccinated. If OP had proof the carer was not following restrictions AND increasing her risk of infection before (not necessarily the same) then she should have stopped her then, doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to continue now.

Nanny0gg · 26/03/2021 16:08

@SakuraEdenSwan1

It's none of your business what she does, good on her for refusing the vaccine.
Yes, very sensible Confused. It's very much the OP's business to keep her daughter safe

She's in the wrong profession

Nanny0gg · 26/03/2021 16:10

@orangebay

If she didn't tell you you wouldn't know. You could get a new career and they lie. She's probably not purposefully trying to hurt your daughter it's just so unknown what the problem is really or how it's spread
It's not unknown!!
Nanny0gg · 26/03/2021 16:13

[quote SakuraEdenSwan1]@Cokie3 no I am not trolling, enforcing medical procedures you are all happy to go along with, where does it stop?

I am CEV and a trained nurse, I too have refused the vaccine because years of experience tells me that it is not safe or enough know about it. And I also would like to ask how a carer is looking after a trachy? This should be done by qualified staff only.
[/quote]
Years of experience?

In epidemiology? Virology?

You know more than the scientists in the field?