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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Daughters carer refused covid vaccine

267 replies

Nevic84 · 25/03/2021 20:20

My daughter 6 has multiple health needs mainly a tracheostomy but also a weakened immune system and minor heart defect.
She’s a happy and otherwise healthy child.
But she’s classed as clinically extremely vulnerable.
She has 1:1 carers as her condition is life threatening.
Her main carer has refused covid vaccine.
Not for any religious or health reasons she doesn’t want to be bullied into having it and if she gets it she’ll get it when she wants and not before (her words)
In her personal life she’s not following covid restrictions and having people over her house and going into other peoples house and visiting public places a lot only wearing mask when mandatory.
What’s peoples opinions and how would they deal with it?
Aibu to think if you work in care you would care enough to want to protect those who couldn’t be protected?
I worry about my daughter everyday I feel scared for her.
As an employer I can’t force her to have it.

OP posts:
Nanny0gg · 26/03/2021 16:18

@Ivy455

"I wish it would become mandatory."

Disgusting that you think bodily autonomy should be taken away OP, Be careful what you wish for - it's a slippery slope.

I agree with the poster that asked why this is suddenly such an issue when she's been caring for the child all throughout the pandemic. The risk has not changed.

Tell that to hospital staff who have to have the hepatitis vaccine
Nanny0gg · 26/03/2021 16:19

[quote XenoBitch]@Cokie3

No, are you serious? How on earth did you somehow arrive to the conclusion that I am not taking things seriously by my post? Which was asking a legitimate question?

Why sack someone for not having the vaccine when they they have not had the vaccine for the past year anyway? Why does it matter suddenly now?[/quote]
You do realise the vaccine hasn't been around for the past year, yes?

GiveMeNovocain · 26/03/2021 17:15

@Belladonna12

I would just get rid of her if you can find another carer. She can't do anything about it she's worked you for less than two years. Even if it's been more than that time you can still dismiss her and all she can do is try and take you to an employment tribunal for unfair dismissal. I doubt she would get anywhere if she did that but even if she does it's a maximum of one years salary.
Here's some information on what the potential claim is worth. I'm not trying to say it's impossible to dismiss her but please get proper advice if this is the route you want to take www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/discrimination-at-work/taking-action/work-out-how-much-compensation-you-could-get-for-discrimination/

It's very unfair to expose other people to liability. You can't possibly know the level of damages she might be exposed to. Lawyers make far more off people who choose to take action without proper advice than those who preempt issues and avoid making mistakes in thee situations.

Chloemol · 26/03/2021 17:16

It’s her choice to have the vaccine or not

It’s your choice who you employ as carer

If she won’t have the vaccine and you don’t want to employ her then get another carer

thecatsabsentcojones · 26/03/2021 17:21

That makes me so angry. How selfish. Get rid, a child’s life is far more important than someone being ‘bullied’ into a vaccine. Horrible.

Miasicarisatia · 26/03/2021 17:30

but staff were led to believe they would be fired if they refused
empty threat surely?
Care work can be difficult and demanding yet is poorly paid, there is no queue of people desperate to work in care who will rush to take their place, sadly for many who work in the sector care work is what you do as a last resort when you cant get a 'better' job.
Of course care work is valuable and worthwhile, but you cant expect people to make sacrifices for a role which is low status and low paid:(

SpacemanDad · 26/03/2021 17:50

@Nevic84

I employ direct with direct payments. 1 pcr test a week. I do like her but it’s so difficult when it’s your child it’s like Russian roulette I’ve had my vaccine as an unpaid carer and it felt like the happiest day or my life (other than having my children) Everyone has different opinions on it. I half expect one day she’ll turn round and say she’ll have it just because she’s chosen the time, she likes to travel so I guess she’ll need it in the end somehow.
I'd certainly be reconsidering who was caring for my daughter if their behaviour is as you say, especially her not paying attention to COVID restrictions I'd hope that fairly soon society will encourage people to get their vaccination ie;- pubs, airlines, rail companies, restaurants etc will insist on evidence of vaccination in order for you to use their services to such an extent that people will be left with a choice of getting a vaccine or only being allowed in Wetherspoons for a drink
Lavanderrose · 26/03/2021 18:21

How does it effect you? We don’t know if the vaccine reduces transmission yet. Surely she’s still following safety measures anyway? Washing hands, mask wearing etr.

Lavanderrose · 26/03/2021 18:23

Personally I don’t think you should follow people’s advice on getting rid of her because she won’t have the vaccine. You could be taken to tribunal for unfair dismissal since the vaccine is not compulsory.

Dobbyafreeelf · 26/03/2021 18:32

I'm a bit on the fence about this. As a self employed carer i total understand the need for vaccinations but at the same time I dislike the idea of being forced to a) have a vaccination or b) divulge any medical information to clients. My personal life and medical history are private and my own affair.
Fwiw I have had my first vaccination. But if this had happened 5years ago I wouldn't have been able to. I was suffering from serious nerve damage in my arm and wouldn't have been able to tolerate a needle. But I also wouldn't have wanted to or felt comfortable with having to share that with clients.

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 26/03/2021 18:35

Unless anyone quoting law here is actually you know, am employment lawyer... Please do check the rules re employment....

Different laws/exemptions apply when doing personal care

It's a huge area... Where employment lawyers are continually having to update themselves as law is changing so much.

Dont except anything less than a proper legal opinion.

Please don't let your daughter suffer by employing this thoughtless woman

NeverDropYourMoonCup · 26/03/2021 18:52

@Dobbyafreeelf

I'm a bit on the fence about this. As a self employed carer i total understand the need for vaccinations but at the same time I dislike the idea of being forced to a) have a vaccination or b) divulge any medical information to clients. My personal life and medical history are private and my own affair. Fwiw I have had my first vaccination. But if this had happened 5years ago I wouldn't have been able to. I was suffering from serious nerve damage in my arm and wouldn't have been able to tolerate a needle. But I also wouldn't have wanted to or felt comfortable with having to share that with clients.
Did you not have another arm in which to have a vaccination?

Or any leg or arse muscles

Dobbyafreeelf · 26/03/2021 19:01

@NeverDropYourMoonCup my issue was a bit more complicated than nerve damage but I don't want to share too much as it is quite outing. But essentially no it would not have been possible for me to have had the covid jab at that point in time.

NeverDropYourMoonCup · 26/03/2021 19:03

Tell that to hospital staff who have to have the hepatitis vaccine

Don't forget the BCG. And the MMR. Both conditions of employment/obtaining Occupational Health clearance for NHS admin, non patient facing employment in my experience.

As I was on pretty hefty immunosuppressant medication at the time, I wouldn't have been able to have either. So they did blood tests to check I had immunity to both - without that, I would have been deemed unfit to commence employment.

Because no matter how much people go on about it being their right to not have vaccinations, nobody wants a clerk going into SCBU or the children's chemotherapy ward to collect the notes as usual when they're in the incubation stage of the Measles, never mind the nurse or doctor that's treating their infant.

dotdashdashdash · 26/03/2021 19:04

I'd be more concerned about her having not followed guidelines which would place your DD at increased risk. But if you've let that slide I'm not sure why you are so bothered by her not having the vaccine - someone without the vaccine but following guidelines is much less of a risk than the other way around.

ContentsMayBeHot · 26/03/2021 19:28

Absolutely get rid. I'm sorry that finding a replacement will be such an undertaking but I dont really see what else you can do.

Lavanderrose · 26/03/2021 19:34

People here saying get rid. But finding a good carer is not so easy, you’ll have to go through all the training again, plus your child and the carer will need to build up a relationship. If the carer is following your protective measures, has access to regular testing, then it’s their choice if they chose to have the vaccine or not. (I’m pro vaccine by the way) in a few months everything will be opening back up again anyway with no limit on social restrictions...
You could also be breaking the law if you advertise for carers who’ve only had the vaccine.

Belladonna12 · 26/03/2021 20:01

@Lavanderrose

People here saying get rid. But finding a good carer is not so easy, you’ll have to go through all the training again, plus your child and the carer will need to build up a relationship. If the carer is following your protective measures, has access to regular testing, then it’s their choice if they chose to have the vaccine or not. (I’m pro vaccine by the way) in a few months everything will be opening back up again anyway with no limit on social restrictions... You could also be breaking the law if you advertise for carers who’ve only had the vaccine.
Of course she wouldn't be breaking the law to only employ carers who have had the vaccine to look after her ECV child. What law do you think makes that illegal! Also, someone who looks after extremely vulnerable people and refuses to have the vaccine or even follow the restrictions is by definition not a good carer IMO.
Voice0fReason · 26/03/2021 20:59

@Lavanderrose

People here saying get rid. But finding a good carer is not so easy, you’ll have to go through all the training again, plus your child and the carer will need to build up a relationship. If the carer is following your protective measures, has access to regular testing, then it’s their choice if they chose to have the vaccine or not. (I’m pro vaccine by the way) in a few months everything will be opening back up again anyway with no limit on social restrictions... You could also be breaking the law if you advertise for carers who’ve only had the vaccine.
Do you think that refusing a vaccine is a protected characteristic?

Perfectly reasonable to make it a condition of employment.

Voice0fReason · 26/03/2021 21:01

@Dobbyafreeelf

I'm a bit on the fence about this. As a self employed carer i total understand the need for vaccinations but at the same time I dislike the idea of being forced to a) have a vaccination or b) divulge any medical information to clients. My personal life and medical history are private and my own affair. Fwiw I have had my first vaccination. But if this had happened 5years ago I wouldn't have been able to. I was suffering from serious nerve damage in my arm and wouldn't have been able to tolerate a needle. But I also wouldn't have wanted to or felt comfortable with having to share that with clients.
Which is absolutely your right.

It's also my right to refuse to consider giving you any work.
This will be a necessity for most care workers.

Muchtoomuchtodo · 26/03/2021 21:15

I’m a AHP working in the NHS (with ECV patients). Out of our team of 7, 2 have so far declined to be vaccinated. It’s absolutely none of my business why, it’s their choice. Once that injection has been done, there’s no removing it.

I’ve had both of my jabs, but wasn’t given a sticker and unfortunately have lost my wallet containing the card since having it. Doesn’t mean I’m not fully vaccinated though.

And I’ll ask again, for those who are willing for the unvanncinated to be sacked, do you think the same about those who don’t have the annual flu vaccine or the MMR?

Lavanderrose · 26/03/2021 21:19

@Voice0fReason the thing is there might be people who cannot have the vaccine due to medical issues. Thus it could be seen as discrimination.

Miasicarisatia · 26/03/2021 21:25

Those who are Critical of this vaccine refusing care worker speak as if care work is a sought-after and highly paid profession...

Ignorethecheeseinthefridge · 26/03/2021 21:37

Stop her immediately if you can- I work to support vulnerable people and think it is completely unfair to those we care for not to have the vaccine. Her lack of consideration in that and not following the rules is awful. Please don't waste anytime - delaying her departure is too great a risk.

Cokie3 · 26/03/2021 21:41

[quote XenoBitch]@Cokie3

No, are you serious? How on earth did you somehow arrive to the conclusion that I am not taking things seriously by my post? Which was asking a legitimate question?

Why sack someone for not having the vaccine when they they have not had the vaccine for the past year anyway? Why does it matter suddenly now?[/quote]
@XenoBitch Ummmm.......because the vaccine has not existed for a year, only NOW. That's why. Are you really this dense? Confused It matters NOW because there is vaccine NOW.