My husband says “notallmen”

[Lastchancesalonco]

NC for this! My teenage daughter and I were discussing the current outcry regarding violence against women and women living in fear, my husband entered the room, and immediately said it “wasn’t all men” and now men were “scared to do anything” wtf??? Scared to what exactly? Terrorise women? it’s very relevant I feel that my husband is a police sergeant! And although we do live in a very very low crime area so he doesn’t personally deal with many murders etc it’s mostly petty crime I KNOW he deals with domestic situations and has previously been very vocal about protecting people in domestic situations etc. This is very out of character for him, when pressed he said he felt people were “taking it too far” calling for a “6pm curfew” for men, when my daughter, who I’m ashamed to say was more vociferous than me because I was stunned, pointed out she effectively had an unofficial curfew for safety reasons, he seemed flustered like he hadnt thought of that, then he said “men are scared of attack too” and I said “who from? Who from? Not Denise on her way home pissed from her hen night is it? No it’s MEN you are scared of OTHER MEN” anyway he reflected a bit and was apologetic but I’m worried, he never used to be like this? Is he hearing some extremist narrative at work that poor white middle class men are under attack because the system that gives them every advantage is trying to be dismantled? He works with women and even a transsexual officer and has never shown any sign of prejudice or anything but acceptance for them and up till now never said anything concerning but he literally said “not all men” did we say it was??? I dunno it’s made me a bit sick, and I can’t help but wonder how a man who was previously totally on my wavelength about these things has changed to “but what about me”
Especially when we have a teenage daughter who will be going off to uni soon and won’t be in her safe little village! AIBU to take this so seriously or was he just being a giant selfish man baby and truly sees the error of his ways?

@tangerinelollipop

Yes, we absolutely should advise our daughters to be cautious (sorry if my comment wasn't clear)

Yes, we have to sadly, but the point of this recent discussion is to try and highlight the fact that we should not have to. The responsibility should be on men to not view and treat women this way. Yes I know that is realistically a near impossible task and women need to be cautious anyway, but your whole comment was just "the problem is stereotyping, and "women should be cautious". No, the main problem is not stereotyping, it is the fact that women are having to be cautious.

Your comment does nothing to even advocate for awareness of the issues at hand, it's literally just two different ways of deflecting the onus off men.

Can any of the Not All Men crew let me know if the huge number of men who wank off to women being choked and straggled in porn, are the good guys™️ or not?

Re the Curfew - Murder and kidnap is rape, however, the scum bag still did it.

Do you honestly believe, that all the murderes and rapists will adhere to the curfew? It is naive and lazy headline grabbing ideas.

Not to mention totally at odds with the The Human Rights Act 1998.

*When we had the terrorist attacks, the local muslim commnuity condemmed the attacks, saying that not all muslims were like this.

This was accpeted, and taken onboard, so why can't the same logic be applied here?*

It wasn't accepted by extreme right-wingers, unfortunately.

@Naunet

Can any of the Not All Men crew let me know if the huge number of men who wank off to women being choked and straggled in porn, are the good guys™️ or not?

errrr how did we get to here?

Dismissing women's well-founded concerns about murder and rape as 'a hardline feminist viewpoint' is a fairly hardline point of view.

*When we had the terrorist attacks, the local muslim commnuity condemmed the attacks, saying that not all muslims were like this.

This was accpeted, and taken onboard, so why can't the same logic be applied here?*

Because the statistics were much smaller of Muslims who were also terrorists.

@CirqueDeMorgue

*When we had the terrorist attacks, the local muslim commnuity condemmed the attacks, saying that not all muslims were like this.

This was accpeted, and taken onboard, so why can't the same logic be applied here?*

It wasn't accepted by extreme right-wingers, unfortunately.

Exactly, as this is not being accpeted by the extremes on both side. I pray that most people sit in the middle, lead a life of equality and treat people with respect, and social media is refelctive of the very very small but voal minorty of extremist nutters.

@Naunet

Can any of the Not All Men crew let me know if the huge number of men who wank off to women being choked and straggled in porn, are the good guys™️ or not?

Why on earth would anyone say they were 'good guys?' Do you actually think that's the kind of stuff that generally gets men off? Surely these fantasies would spill over into real life ?

Re the Curfew - Murder and kidnap is rape, however, the scum bag still did it

Do you honestly believe, that all the murderes and rapists will adhere to the curfew? It is naive and lazy headline grabbing ideas

Not to mention totally at odds with the The Human Rights Act 1998

No one has seriously suggested a curfew for men 🙄 it’s incredible how much traction this gets when it’s said about men, yet this suggestion and many similar are made about women all the time and no one gives a shit.

@fromdownwest

Re the Curfew - Murder and kidnap is rape, however, the scum bag still did it.

Do you honestly believe, that all the murderes and rapists will adhere to the curfew? It is naive and lazy headline grabbing ideas.

Not to mention totally at odds with the The Human Rights Act 1998.

The curfew was never a serious proposal. It was just a way to get people thinking about how women feel when they're told not to go out after dark.

Actually, statistically, men are attcked more than women.
However, I agree that women are more afraid than men. That is, few men would probably understand the fear that women have.
In the case of Sarah Everard, (which we do not know yet what happened, and I do not want to pre judge), a) it was not very late - being about 9.30 pm, and b), I think circumstances could be more difficult than normal because of the lockdown, meaning fewer people out and about.
What I mean, is that although I have not been attacked, like most women, I have been afraid, and one specific occassion I remember was due to the absence of other normal people about.
I recently watched a TV prog about Suzy Lamplugh who disappeared 35 years ago. Her disappearance happened during the day, and nothing to do with being out late at night, etc

Why on earth would anyone say they were 'good guys?' Do you actually think that's the kind of stuff that generally gets men off? Surely these fantasies would spill over into real life

Well it’s pretty standard stuff in porn these days, so yes, a lot of men get off on it.

Actually, statistically, men are attcked more than women.

BY OTHER MEN.

My 18 year old son said it saddens him that to me he is son to his girlfriend he is boyfriend but to a female walking in the street alone he is a potential predator I think that just about sums it up

This is simple. Men think of themselves as individuals and not part of a group. So it feels like a personal attack.

I think this is true.

My ds actually said to me, I feel like I am a piece of shit because I am male and white

Well tough. He can be as pro-feminist and anti-racist as possible but he'll still be a white male and therefor part of the problem.

He can understand that women being angry about male violence doesn't mean we are blaming all men - but it is a lot of men.

But it often comes across as all men. You don't have to say all men but repeat the message often enough...

Before retiring we had a 'diversity' course. I was apparently racist because I was a white female. Apparently after the course I'd still be a white female and therefor racist, only aware I was seen as racist for being white. Made me question the whole purpose of the course. When you ask what can men do it raises the same prospect they can be aware of the problems women face but they'll still be seen as a threat they'll just be aware you see him as a threat.

@StormcloakNord - Don't understand what you mean

Yes, we have to sadly, but the point of this recent discussion is to try and highlight the fact that we should not have to. The responsibility should be on men to not view and treat women this way. Yes I know that is realistically a near impossible task and women need to be cautious anyway, but your whole comment was just "the problem is stereotyping, and "women should be cautious". No, the main problem is not stereotyping, it is the fact that women are having to be cautious

I think the curfew thing was unhelpful. Stranger rape and murder is scary, but women are killed mostly through domestic violence and bad partners. We are so scared of something statistically rare and so blasé about the real threat. It is a dangerous red herring.

Anyone with a family member who won’t leave a dangerous partner understands this and it’s so frustrating.

Actually, statistically, men are attcked more than women

By men....so addressing the issue of male violence benefits men too!

I doubt he's listening to some extremist narrative at work. He's probably just pissed off that there are people saying men do this and men do that. No. Some men do this and some men do that. Not all. If we were to say white people were racist, quite rightly many white people would be pissed off. Some white people are racist, not all white people are racist.

Not all men. But almost all women.

These women are being attacked, assaulted, harassed, raped and murdered by SOMEONE. And the stats bear this out: it isn't other women.

men are attcked more than women

I wonder what the ratio of sexual violence perpetrated against men is as opposed to that perpetrated against women?

I've no doubt were statistical evidence available of that it might shock you. It would come as no surprise to me.

@BigFatLiar

My ds actually said to me, I feel like I am a piece of shit because I am male and white

Well tough. He can be as pro-feminist and anti-racist as possible but he'll still be a white male and therefor part of the problem.

Are you genuinely saying that an 18 year old boy, who you never met, have no idea of his principles is 'part of the problem'?

I think the mirror needs to be turned, as you are the problem. Imagine judging a class of people by a physical trait that they have no control over, and drawing conculsions purely based on a physical metric.

That never has ended well historically.

@LakieLady

I have a young ds aged 9 and I do worry that he is growing up in a world where being a male is automatically a terrible thing, and that’s so sad

Sad, but it's a golden opportunity to explain how not to be a terrible man, and have conversations about consent, respect, vulnerability, giving women space etc. (In an age appropriate way, of course)

Sadly no matter how well he understands and how nice a person he is it doesn't alter the fact that that is how we are raising our daughters to see him.

@Naunet

Why on earth would anyone say they were 'good guys?' Do you actually think that's the kind of stuff that generally gets men off? Surely these fantasies would spill over into real life

Well it’s pretty standard stuff in porn these days, so yes, a lot of men get off on it.

Ok, I don't know what kind of porn you're seeing but I wouldn't consider violence as 'standard' and would expect that any man who gets off on that would only get off on violent sex.

to a female walking in the street alone he is a potential predator I think that just about sums it up

I was taught to be cautious since I was little, decades ago. So this is not new. What's worrying to me is the current massive extreme emphasis to view men so negatively as a group. We need to be able to reach a middle ground somehow