My husband says “notallmen”

[Lastchancesalonco]

NC for this! My teenage daughter and I were discussing the current outcry regarding violence against women and women living in fear, my husband entered the room, and immediately said it “wasn’t all men” and now men were “scared to do anything” wtf??? Scared to what exactly? Terrorise women? it’s very relevant I feel that my husband is a police sergeant! And although we do live in a very very low crime area so he doesn’t personally deal with many murders etc it’s mostly petty crime I KNOW he deals with domestic situations and has previously been very vocal about protecting people in domestic situations etc. This is very out of character for him, when pressed he said he felt people were “taking it too far” calling for a “6pm curfew” for men, when my daughter, who I’m ashamed to say was more vociferous than me because I was stunned, pointed out she effectively had an unofficial curfew for safety reasons, he seemed flustered like he hadnt thought of that, then he said “men are scared of attack too” and I said “who from? Who from? Not Denise on her way home pissed from her hen night is it? No it’s MEN you are scared of OTHER MEN” anyway he reflected a bit and was apologetic but I’m worried, he never used to be like this? Is he hearing some extremist narrative at work that poor white middle class men are under attack because the system that gives them every advantage is trying to be dismantled? He works with women and even a transsexual officer and has never shown any sign of prejudice or anything but acceptance for them and up till now never said anything concerning but he literally said “not all men” did we say it was??? I dunno it’s made me a bit sick, and I can’t help but wonder how a man who was previously totally on my wavelength about these things has changed to “but what about me”
Especially when we have a teenage daughter who will be going off to uni soon and won’t be in her safe little village! AIBU to take this so seriously or was he just being a giant selfish man baby and truly sees the error of his ways?

'The curfew' is a thought experiment, not a real proposal. The point is to provoke an initial 'that's ridiculous!' response. Then to follow that with the recognition that this is women's reality. Then to consider what can really be done to change that.

People who are only able to see things from their own perspective (or the perspective of the people they've given the status of 'the important ones'), are the ones who get stuck at the 'that's ridiculous' stage.

@fromdownwest

Re the Curfew - Murder and kidnap is rape, however, the scum bag still did it.

Do you honestly believe, that all the murderes and rapists will adhere to the curfew? It is naive and lazy headline grabbing ideas.

Not to mention totally at odds with the The Human Rights Act 1998.

But it was never a serious suggestion, it was made to generate headlines and make men think gosh imagine if we couldnt go to the shop after 6 pm, imagine if we were expected to be responsible for other people's behaviour by having our freedoms limited.

Considering 98% of women say they have had some form of sexual harassment- it may not be ALL men but is sure an awful lot of men.

98% of women have not said they have had sexual harassment. 98% of women who were asked might have done but that is not the same thing.

I think the mirror needs to be turned, as you are the problem. Imagine judging a class of people by a physical trait that they have no control over, and drawing conculsions purely based on a physical metric.

Isn't that exactly what upsets him? He is part of the problem for being male? I've never met him, he is the lone male walking along the path. We are the ones judging him on his sex.

Ok, I don't know what kind of porn you're seeing but I wouldn't consider violence as 'standard' and would expect that any man who gets off on that would only get off on violent sex

Wow. I’d suggest you go look at the videos on the first page of PornHub and see how many of them have men forcing their dicks down a woman’s throat, hands round a woman’s neck or other violence. I’ve done it before and was shocked.

Women do not have an unspoken curfew. All people out at night have to be more careful, all people at night should be looking after there safety.

Women do have an unspoken curfew. It may not be your case but i know plenty of women who don't run in winter except at the weekend because they can't go after work when it's dark because they're worried about what might happen.

And when women are "advised" to think of their safety and not go out - what happens when they do go out? Maybe to work? Maybe (god forbid) for a run, and something does happen? More often than not they get victim blamed. THAT is the curfew women are under.

I think that a 6pm curfew for all men is unworkable TBH. My son /DH and all the decent men out there would have to/ be locked down .Would this stop the indecent ,nasty attackers anyway?I think you just had a misunderstanding with him really .

I've always wondered if it's the case but after recent weeks any man decrying "NAMALT" when others, probably women, are calmly and civilly discussing how their freedoms are curtailed due to violence predominantly perpetrated by men, is on my radar as definitely not giving much of a shit about the safety and freedom of women and girls.

There has been nothing ever say all men are like this (however in order for a societal shift to break the cycle, all men need to do their bit to challenge and call out other men. How? Well, that's another thread. But without them it will never happen. Ever) yet we aren't allowed to voice our feelings and concerns without having this thrown at us. Yes, shit for brains, I'd agree NAMALT - and?

OP Im concerned that as you say, as an officer if the law whose job it is to talk to victims, your DH quickly jumps to this. Despite what you and DD have said to show him the realities.

People who have a lot of privlidge don't realise that they have it they just see it as a given. So they really don't like it when people try to 'take it away' as it feels like you're taking away their rights.
So he bound to get stroppy. The work is in making him realise this!

If violent men (and I'll say it in case of whataboutery - the astonishingly small by comparison incidents of violence by women) stopped harassing, catcalling, groping, rape, assault and murder) EVERYONE BENEFITS.

Wow. I’d suggest you go look at the videos on the first page of PornHub and see how many of them have men forcing their dicks down a woman’s throat, hands round a woman’s neck or other violence. I’ve done it before and was shocked

And to add to this, 80% of videos were removed from pornhub recently because they couldn’t confirm if the content was consensual. Men’s reaction was “Whahhhhhh my favourite video has been removed” not “oh my god, I feel sick, I might have been getting off to someone’s rape”.

Well not all men is true. But what many not all men are forgetting is that it is the not all men who don’t challenge the sexist behaviour of their friends and colleagues, who laugh at their jokes, go along with strippers at stag nights, look at the porn they show them on their phones, don’t call them out when they comment about women’s bodies .

It’s great that some men are feeling uncomfortable, but I’d like to see them being a lot more proactive with challenging the misogynistic behaviour that is endemic in our society.

Maybe the partners of not all men could suggest this to them . Most women have learned over the years that the only way to get change is to stick your head over the parapet again and again and again and again and again......

He can be as pro-feminist and anti-racist as possible but he'll still be a white male and therefor part of the problem

I agree with the PP. It seems wrong how some are determined to dictatorially endow a group of people with guilt for acts they haven't committed themselves

@dottiedodah

I think that a 6pm curfew for all men is unworkable TBH. My son /DH and all the decent men out there would have to/ be locked down .Would this stop the indecent ,nasty attackers anyway?I think you just had a misunderstanding with him really .

Again, this was never a serious suggestion. It was put forward to make men think about how their lives would be impacted if they were told not to go out after dark.

*Christmasjoy
*
My DD 11 was subject to disgusting comments from men walking home in her school uniform. Before lockdown. This was another woman's husband/dad/boyfriend/son.

Yes not all men are like that but as another poster stated, too many are. Do you think I'm hysterical for being fucking furious this happened to her and it's probably going to the first instance of many?

It's huge indicator of privilege for a man, with the backdrop of recent weeks, to look at it all and feel he's under attack.

@Naunet

Ok, I don't know what kind of porn you're seeing but I wouldn't consider violence as 'standard' and would expect that any man who gets off on that would only get off on violent sex

Wow. I’d suggest you go look at the videos on the first page of PornHub and see how many of them have men forcing their dicks down a woman’s throat, hands round a woman’s neck or other violence. I’ve done it before and was shocked.

Wow indeed. Well, if that's the case, most men must be absolute sexual deviants. I've had one sexual relationship with this type and he's now a convicted rapist. It's one too many, for sure but in my experience, most men have 'standard' sexual tastes.

I'm not sure this whole debate is helping women. My DD13 had some kind of talk at school, misunderstood it and came home telling me 98% of women are raped. I said no, that's 98% experience sexual harassment. She was terrified: there is a sliding scale here. I told her most men won't rape but far too many men will be sexist/misogynistic or be involved in some kind of sexual harassment so unfortunately we do have to take pre-emptive actions for our own safety. We shouldn't have to but that's the reality.

@dottiedodah

I think that a 6pm curfew for all men is unworkable TBH. My son /DH and all the decent men out there would have to/ be locked down .Would this stop the indecent ,nasty attackers anyway?I think you just had a misunderstanding with him really .

I heard it's being passed in parliament today. It was such a serious and sensible suggestion they rushed it through

🙄

Have you learnt about what women go through in other countires?

//// Ah, when she was in tears at the shame of what they'd said to her it slipped my mind to tell her how lucky she is. Noted for next time. Because there will be a next time.

I saw a comment of Instagram recently that said the reason men were lashing out about all men is because they are looking back at their own past behaviour when they may have witnessed and ignored harassment of women.
Maybe they were pinging bra straps in school, maybe they 'took advantage' of a drunk girl, maybe they laughed along when other guys harassed women. All at a time when it was more 'socially acceptable', but now they have to look back and realise that they were assholes and that their actions weren't innocent and without consequences.

//// Tik I think there's probably a lot of truth in that. And actually, if they were able to get over it and turn that guilt into action I could let them have that. It's all part of the change curve, all feelings accepted yada yada.

I heard it's being passed in parliament today. It was such a serious and sensible suggestion they rushed it through

🤣😂🤣

It’s amazing how many women want to focus on the not real issue of a curfew for men, rather than the very real issue of male violence against women.

Sounds to me like he spoke without thinking, a healthy talk would probably help.

The thing that bugs me about this is it’s not a new problem, men have always hurt women. And although we are talking about the issue because of recent events...will actual change come? Will we actually start educating our boys from a young age?

Sometimes it does feel like people are jumping on a band wagon to talk about an issue that is popular in the media at the time, but it will eventually be forgotten. When it should already be an on going discussion because that’s the only way we can change things.

I think the debate around violence against women demonstrates that many men (including those closest to me), just do not get how curtailing violence against women is and how intimidating it can be. I am seriously thinking about asking some men to walk in my shoes for a couple of weeks, so now going out at dark alone, no running/exercising in places where you may find yourself alone so that they can understand exactly how confining our lives can feel.

@nokidshere

Considering 98% of women say they have had some form of sexual harassment- it may not be ALL men but is sure an awful lot of men.

98% of women have not said they have had sexual harassment. 98% of women who were asked might have done but that is not the same thing.

Do you have reason to believe that those women don’t constitute a representative sample?

I like the malteser analogy: Not all men, but if I gave you a box of Maltese and told you 1 in 10 of them was a nugget of shit dipped in chocolate then you’d be wary of the full box.