My husband says “notallmen”

[Lastchancesalonco]

NC for this! My teenage daughter and I were discussing the current outcry regarding violence against women and women living in fear, my husband entered the room, and immediately said it “wasn’t all men” and now men were “scared to do anything” wtf??? Scared to what exactly? Terrorise women? it’s very relevant I feel that my husband is a police sergeant! And although we do live in a very very low crime area so he doesn’t personally deal with many murders etc it’s mostly petty crime I KNOW he deals with domestic situations and has previously been very vocal about protecting people in domestic situations etc. This is very out of character for him, when pressed he said he felt people were “taking it too far” calling for a “6pm curfew” for men, when my daughter, who I’m ashamed to say was more vociferous than me because I was stunned, pointed out she effectively had an unofficial curfew for safety reasons, he seemed flustered like he hadnt thought of that, then he said “men are scared of attack too” and I said “who from? Who from? Not Denise on her way home pissed from her hen night is it? No it’s MEN you are scared of OTHER MEN” anyway he reflected a bit and was apologetic but I’m worried, he never used to be like this? Is he hearing some extremist narrative at work that poor white middle class men are under attack because the system that gives them every advantage is trying to be dismantled? He works with women and even a transsexual officer and has never shown any sign of prejudice or anything but acceptance for them and up till now never said anything concerning but he literally said “not all men” did we say it was??? I dunno it’s made me a bit sick, and I can’t help but wonder how a man who was previously totally on my wavelength about these things has changed to “but what about me”
Especially when we have a teenage daughter who will be going off to uni soon and won’t be in her safe little village! AIBU to take this so seriously or was he just being a giant selfish man baby and truly sees the error of his ways?

Yeah but this thread is about misogyny - violence against women. And although emotional abuse is sh*t, it's not as bad as being raped and murdered. So yes it's a derail.

I give up anyway. Well, temporarily. I think women are so socialised not to see misogyny that large numbers of us have become Aunt Lydias.

@horseyhorsey17

Yeah but this thread is about misogyny - violence against women. And although emotional abuse is sh*t, it's not as bad as being raped and murdered. So yes it's a derail.

I give up anyway. Well, temporarily. I think women are so socialised not to see misogyny that large numbers of us have become Aunt Lydias.

But this is my point. Just because it's "not as bad", does not mean it should be silenced.

Awk, I can see why you're frustrated. But I just don't agree. And although I've taken a slaughtering across these threads, I'm really not a bad human being. I just feel how I feel!

I think the fact that a lot of women do not live in fear of their partners/sons and other relatives, most do not fear their work colleagues, many choose to socialise with males really proves that most men are not the enemy. Data from surveys is not always reliable. The longer the blaming of men as a group goes on the more people loose interest because it is just bizarre logic!

@twelly

I think the fact that a lot of women do not live in fear of their partners/sons and other relatives, most do not fear their work colleagues, many choose to socialise with males really proves that most men are not the enemy. Data from surveys is not always reliable. The longer the blaming of men as a group goes on the more people loose interest because it is just bizarre logic!

I agree, but, we will continue to be flamed, and it will rattle on for years and years and no changes will happen.

people don't seem to learn from history that dividing groups in society does nothing.

*I agree, but, we will continue to be flamed, and it will rattle on for years and years and no changes will happen.

people don't seem to learn from history that dividing groups in society does nothing.*

Women pretending there isn't a problem and saying things like "well I never minded the odd slap on the bottom" hasn't led to much change, either.

@aSofaNearYou

*I agree, but, we will continue to be flamed, and it will rattle on for years and years and no changes will happen.

people don't seem to learn from history that dividing groups in society does nothing.*

Women pretending there isn't a problem and saying things like "well I never minded the odd slap on the bottom" hasn't led to much change, either.

But I've never said anything like that, and I'd challenge that.

You are doing exactly what I just said.

I have been through domestic abuse and been sexually harassed like most women on here.

That doesn't put in a special pile where I'm not allowed to disagree with women on how the issue needs to be overcome.

When he was saying "not all men" (yes we know that) he was really saying "not me" and indicating that it was nothing to do with him and he can't possibly do anything about it. It's a defensive reaction.

For those saying that women are just as bad or they bring it on themselves, why not start a thread about that if you want to?

I haven't seen anyone say women are just as bad or bring it on themselves. That's certainly never came out of my mouth.

I'm not surprised men are getting defensive. If the shoe was on the other foot and there was a national campaign slating women, we'd do the same. It's human reaction.

It's all very noble to say "ah but they should agree with us and stand with us" but in human life, it goes against instincts.

The narrative is very much that they don't matter as much, Jerk.

I disagree. This is a debate about male violence towards women not about violence towards men or men being upset about women's inherent fear of men in general. Women are taking about real, violent and sexual experiences yet some people seem more concerned about hurting men's feelings.

The vast majority of us on this and similar threads have acknowledged that male on male violence and toxic masculinity is a problem and we have acknowledged that women can also be violent and abusive.
But this isn't the focus of this specific discussion. They are worthy discussions but lumping them in with this discussion dilutes the debate on all fronts.

@TheJerkStore

The narrative is very much that they don't matter as much, Jerk.

I disagree. This is a debate about male violence towards women not about violence towards men or men being upset about women's inherent fear of men in general. Women are taking about real, violent and sexual experiences yet some people seem more concerned about hurting men's feelings.

The vast majority of us on this and similar threads have acknowledged that male on male violence and toxic masculinity is a problem and we have acknowledged that women can also be violent and abusive.
But this isn't the focus of this specific discussion. They are worthy discussions but lumping them in with this discussion dilutes the debate on all fronts.

I don't disagree with you, Jerk.

I don't think it's about not hurting men's feelings. It's about acknowledging that the way in which this issue is being approached isn't working. I don't think anyone on any of these threads can really disagree with that and tell me it is working.

*But I've never said anything like that, and I'd challenge that.

You are doing exactly what I just said.

I have been through domestic abuse and been sexually harassed like most women on here.

That doesn't put in a special pile where I'm not allowed to disagree with women on how the issue needs to be overcome.*

I haven't said you've said that.

I just think what you've been saying is absolute nonsense tbh.

What do you think people should be doing instead of "creating divides"? Say it nicer, keep praising all the men that are lovely so they don't get defensive when we talk about the other ones?

Men do not listen to women about this. They have been not listening to women for centuries. I sympathise with the fact that not all men are rapists and the fact that some men are also abused, but the fact is they didn't even have the self awareness to listen for a week before wanting to change the subject to focus on that. People like you are enabling them to do that.

If anyone ACTUALLY SAYS all men are rapists or no men are abused then fair enough, defend away. But until then, no, women are not "creating divides", men are being self absorbed and defensive, and care more about that than what women are saying.

don't think it's about not hurting men's feelings. It's about acknowledging that the way in which this issue is being approached isn't working. I don't think anyone on any of these threads can really disagree with that and tell me it is working.

We haven't really had time to put any real action in place yet so we can't judge that yet. But women are angry and trying to shut us down with cries of not all of men is making us angrier as it feels like we're not being listened to.

@aSofaNearYou

*But I've never said anything like that, and I'd challenge that.

You are doing exactly what I just said.

I have been through domestic abuse and been sexually harassed like most women on here.

That doesn't put in a special pile where I'm not allowed to disagree with women on how the issue needs to be overcome.*

I haven't said you've said that.

I just think what you've been saying is absolute nonsense tbh.

What do you think people should be doing instead of "creating divides"? Say it nicer, keep praising all the men that are lovely so they don't get defensive when we talk about the other ones?

Men do not listen to women about this. They have been not listening to women for centuries. I sympathise with the fact that not all men are rapists and the fact that some men are also abused, but the fact is they didn't even have the self awareness to listen for a week before wanting to change the subject to focus on that. People like you are enabling them to do that.

If anyone ACTUALLY SAYS all men are rapists or no men are abused then fair enough, defend away. But until then, no, women are not "creating divides", men are being self absorbed and defensive, and care more about that than what women are saying.

I know, sofa. I know we are polar opposites, you think I talk nonsense. I think you talk nonsense. But that's just how it is unfortunately.

Right, but by responding to my post with a comment I didn't say, you are implying o think that. I don't. Other women don't speak for me because we are not one class just as men aren't

I don't know what the solution is. If I had one, I'd like to think I'd be on the big bucks.

I am enabling them to have a voice, absolutely. I will not silence men just because other women say I should. It works both ways.

@TheJerkStore

don't think it's about not hurting men's feelings. It's about acknowledging that the way in which this issue is being approached isn't working. I don't think anyone on any of these threads can really disagree with that and tell me it is working.

We haven't really had time to put any real action in place yet so we can't judge that yet. But women are angry and trying to shut us down with cries of not all of men is making us angrier as it feels like we're not being listened to.

Yeah, I can understand that.

But you can listen and still disagree.

You can not agree if you like, but there's no evidence for what you appear to be claiming. I'm no 100% sure what you ARE claiming though tbh, something about women being mean.

Right, but by responding to my post with a comment I didn't say, you are implying o think that. I don't. Other women don't speak for me because we are not one class just as men aren't

I didn't imply that is what you were saying, I was pointing out that that is the alternative that allows men to not feel offended or like women are being confrontational, and it had done nothing to improve these problems.

*I don't know what the solution is. If I had one, I'd like to think I'd be on the big bucks.

I am enabling them to have a voice, absolutely. I will not silence men just because other women say I should. It works both ways.*

The bottom line is, neither doing nothing or being angry has done a lot to change this, but I would rather hear women actually talk about what is happening, so awareness is raised and the next generation doesn't grow up thinking this normal and acceptable. I cannot fathom why any self respecting woman would rather contribute to that not happening by focusing on how men feel about it. It is purely their lack of empathy that is causing that, but it's going to result in a load of young men going out of the world having learnt nothing and, even worse, being encouraged to think they are hard done by and should feel resentful of women.

There's not a 'national campaign slating men.' Women are just not happy about being raped and murdered. The perpetrators of this are men. Women are not murdering women and they're not murdering men at the rate of two a week either, that's why there's no campaign about that. What do you want to happen - women just to shut up and accept our own deaths as collateral damage?

I haven't seen anyone say women are just as bad or bring it on themselves.

Just in the last few pages, one poster used almost the exactly words “women can be just as bad as men” and another was talking about how women taking part in violent pornography certainly weren’t being exploited and were effectively contributing to men’s behaviour towards women.

@aSofaNearYou

Right, but by responding to my post with a comment I didn't say, you are implying o think that. I don't. Other women don't speak for me because we are not one class just as men aren't

I didn't imply that is what you were saying, I was pointing out that that is the alternative that allows men to not feel offended or like women are being confrontational, and it had done nothing to improve these problems.

*I don't know what the solution is. If I had one, I'd like to think I'd be on the big bucks.

I am enabling them to have a voice, absolutely. I will not silence men just because other women say I should. It works both ways.*

The bottom line is, neither doing nothing or being angry has done a lot to change this, but I would rather hear women actually talk about what is happening, so awareness is raised and the next generation doesn't grow up thinking this normal and acceptable. I cannot fathom why any self respecting woman would rather contribute to that not happening by focusing on how men feel about it. It is purely their lack of empathy that is causing that, but it's going to result in a load of young men going out of the world having learnt nothing and, even worse, being encouraged to think they are hard done by and should feel resentful of women.

It's not a lack of empathy. It's the opposite. That's quite offensive.

Here's the thing. Behind the screen we are all human beings. Now as you know sofa, I have taken a pounding since this topic began. But beneath my views, I am a decent human beings, with a job, a family, loved ones, etc etc. We all are. But we are shaped by our experiences. I have always been a whatabouter with anything, for many reasons, and not for controversy. For example, given my age it's not uncommon for many of my friends to come to me about problems with men or their friends, say. Now I wipe their tears, support them, and whether MN likes it or not I am a good human being. I have empathy for everyone and anyone. I really do. But in conversations like that, I , like many people, would look at his point of view and talk through it. I wouldn't just say yes you're quite right and perfect leave him right now. Doesn't mean I don't have empathu for her, it means I think the world isn't black and white.

Your sex does not define that I have to agree with you, regardless of your experiences. I have taken a pounding on these threads despite the fact I have been an abuse victim but I suck it up because being am abuse victim does not define me. People don't have to automatically have empathy with me or agree with me.

No one is denying that what is happening to women is horrendous, or that we need a solution. But I agree with the NAMAlT campaign on some points, and if in eoples eyes that makes me a monster, well, the world will go on.

You mix up focusing with balancing. I don't purely focus on women because they aren't all there.

In terms of the young men, I have yet to see any situation in history which has educated someone by demonising them.

@PurpleDaisies

I haven't seen anyone say women are just as bad or bring it on themselves.

Just in the last few pages, one poster used almost the exactly words “women can be just as bad as men” and another was talking about how women taking part in violent pornography certainly weren’t being exploited and were effectively contributing to men’s behaviour towards women.

Genuinely haven't seen that.

@horseyhorsey17

There's not a 'national campaign slating men.' Women are just not happy about being raped and murdered. The perpetrators of this are men. Women are not murdering women and they're not murdering men at the rate of two a week either, that's why there's no campaign about that. What do you want to happen - women just to shut up and accept our own deaths as collateral damage?

No. Keep shouting about it. Absolutely. But don't shut down people who don't agree, or demonise them.

Incidentally horsey the reason it's women and not men is because statistically it's far more likely to be killed by someone you know.

Incidentally, how many gay men are killed by their partners.....?

Don't agree with what?!

That women aren't being murdered by men? That women have the right to be p*ssed off about that?

There's literally nothing to disagree with.

Gay men's partners are men. We're still talking about male violence.

Women are a class and men are a class btw. That's a demographic fact. If you think we're all individuals with absolutely nothing in common with each other, than you obviously aren't going to believe in misogyny or male violence or in fact any demographic or statistic, or in fact biology. In your world, it's just random people murdering other random people for random reasons. And there's no point in discussing any of this at all with you, so I am not going to.

@horseyhorsey17

Don't agree with what?!

That women aren't being murdered by men? That women have the right to be p*ssed off about that?

There's literally nothing to disagree with.

As said repeatedly i don't disagree with the issue. I disagree with the way it is being handled. And as much as MN would have you believe I'm the sole person in the billions in the world who thinks like that, I'm not.