My husband says “notallmen”

[Lastchancesalonco]

NC for this! My teenage daughter and I were discussing the current outcry regarding violence against women and women living in fear, my husband entered the room, and immediately said it “wasn’t all men” and now men were “scared to do anything” wtf??? Scared to what exactly? Terrorise women? it’s very relevant I feel that my husband is a police sergeant! And although we do live in a very very low crime area so he doesn’t personally deal with many murders etc it’s mostly petty crime I KNOW he deals with domestic situations and has previously been very vocal about protecting people in domestic situations etc. This is very out of character for him, when pressed he said he felt people were “taking it too far” calling for a “6pm curfew” for men, when my daughter, who I’m ashamed to say was more vociferous than me because I was stunned, pointed out she effectively had an unofficial curfew for safety reasons, he seemed flustered like he hadnt thought of that, then he said “men are scared of attack too” and I said “who from? Who from? Not Denise on her way home pissed from her hen night is it? No it’s MEN you are scared of OTHER MEN” anyway he reflected a bit and was apologetic but I’m worried, he never used to be like this? Is he hearing some extremist narrative at work that poor white middle class men are under attack because the system that gives them every advantage is trying to be dismantled? He works with women and even a transsexual officer and has never shown any sign of prejudice or anything but acceptance for them and up till now never said anything concerning but he literally said “not all men” did we say it was??? I dunno it’s made me a bit sick, and I can’t help but wonder how a man who was previously totally on my wavelength about these things has changed to “but what about me”
Especially when we have a teenage daughter who will be going off to uni soon and won’t be in her safe little village! AIBU to take this so seriously or was he just being a giant selfish man baby and truly sees the error of his ways?

@RootyT00t

Incidentally horsey the reason it's women and not men is because statistically it's far more likely to be killed by someone you know.

Incidentally, how many gay men are killed by their partners.....?

That makes no sense. If that were true, the same number of men would be killed by their female partners.

Incidentally horsey the reason it's women and not men is because statistically it's far more likely to be killed by someone you know.

And??

Incidentally, how many gay men are killed by their partners.....?Male victims of domestic violence are more likely to have been abused by men than women.

RootyT00t I see the old 'women's mean and unkind words are definitely just as bad as men assaulting and murdering' argument is being deployed.

We are not talking about 'bad or unkind behaviour'. We know both sexes are capable of that. We are talking about men sexually and physically assaulting, raping and murdering women. You are putting 'nasty MILs' on the same level as men who rape, beat up, strangle, stab women to death?

Putting them on a par with each other is really insulting to all the women who are no longer here because they were murdered by the person who was supposed to love them.

*horseyhorsey17
There's not a 'national campaign slating men.' Women are just not happy about being raped and murdered. The perpetrators of this are men. Women are not murdering women and they're not murdering men at the rate of two a week either, that's why there's no campaign about that. What do you want to happen - women just to shut up and accept our own deaths as collateral
damage?

’No. Keep shouting about it. Absolutely. But don't shut down people who don't agree, or demonise them.’

But that statement is true, isn’t it? So what’s there to disagree about?

@horseyhorsey17

Gay men's partners are men. We're still talking about male violence.

Women are a class and men are a class btw. That's a demographic fact. If you think we're all individuals with absolutely nothing in common with each other, than you obviously aren't going to believe in misogyny or male violence or in fact any demographic or statistic, or in fact biology. In your world, it's just random people murdering other random people for random reasons. And there's no point in discussing any of this at all with you, so I am not going to.

You make no sense horsey.

You've just said I think people murder each other at random, when I've just said women are statistically far more likely to be murdered by their partner in their own home. Being taken off the street and murdered is relatively rare.

So you're wrong , I'm afraid.

@Mittens030869

**horseyhorsey17 There's not a 'national campaign slating men.' Women are just not happy about being raped and murdered. The perpetrators of this are men. Women are not murdering women and they're not murdering men at the rate of two a week either, that's why there's no campaign about that. What do you want to happen - women just to shut up and accept our own deaths as collateral damage?*

’No. Keep shouting about it. Absolutely. But don't shut down people who don't agree, or demonise them.’

But that statement is true, isn’t it? So what’s there to disagree about?

The way in which it is handled.

The way in which it is handled.

So how should it be handled then?

How can we discuss male violence without discussing.... Male violence?

@Juliesipadwillcallyouback

RootyT00t I see the old 'women's mean and unkind words are definitely just as bad as men assaulting and murdering' argument is being deployed.

We are not talking about 'bad or unkind behaviour'. We know both sexes are capable of that. We are talking about men sexually and physically assaulting, raping and murdering women. You are putting 'nasty MILs' on the same level as men who rape, beat up, strangle, stab women to death?

Putting them on a par with each other is really insulting to all the women who are no longer here because they were murdered by the person who was supposed to love them.

Not by me. I never said that, and I didn't put it on a par.

A poster claimed it couldn't possibly be only 50 percent of men because 90 plus of women have reported it.

My point was that MN can't then claim it's about 0.01 of women who abuse other people, male or female, when we see daily evidence that that isn't the case. You can't twist analogies to suit yourselves.

See how that's very different from me comparing it?

But thanks for insinuating I'm disrespecting murdered women 🙄 given the statistics, it's pretty likely (and indeed true) I will have known someone murdered, and indeed I do. But obviously because I disagree with you, I don't care about that.

@Juliesipadwillcallyouback

The way in which it is handled.

So how should it be handled then?

How can we discuss male violence without discussing.... Male violence?

By discussing. Discussing. Debating. Listening . Talking.

Not shouting down anyone who doesn't share the same view as us ( or indeed claiming they don't care about murdered women, as above )and then being surprised that people are beginning to shout us down.

@Juliesipadwillcallyouback

I know what you mean. What are we supposed to do to draw attention to the horrifying number of rapes (and the appalling conviction rate) and murders of women every year?

@TheJerkStore

Incidentally horsey the reason it's women and not men is because statistically it's far more likely to be killed by someone you know.

And??

Incidentally, how many gay men are killed by their partners.....?Male victims of domestic violence are more likely to have been abused by men than women.

Statistically. We both know there is an issue with male domestic violence statistics.

Statistically. We both know there is an issue with male domestic violence statistics.

I know the statistics around this very well.
What are you trying to say?

[quote Mittens030869]@Juliesipadwillcallyouback

I know what you mean. What are we supposed to do to draw attention to the horrifying number of rapes (and the appalling conviction rate) and murders of women every year?[/quote]
I am far from disagreeing about the conviction rare mittens.

@TheJerkStore

Statistically. We both know there is an issue with male domestic violence statistics.

I know the statistics around this very well.
What are you trying to say?

That it's more common than reported.

That it's more common than reported.

The same goes for women reporting domestic violence and abuse.

But the facts are that women die from domestic violence.... men don't. That's not to say male domestic violence doesn't exist and isn't an issue but we shouldn't be discussing it alongside domestic violence against women because the underlying issues are very different.

Not by me. I never said that, and I didn't put it on a par.

So why are you bringing up 'toxic MILs' during a discussion about male violence against women? It's totally irrelevant?

@TheJerkStore

That it's more common than reported.

The same goes for women reporting domestic violence and abuse.

But the facts are that women die from domestic violence.... men don't. That's not to say male domestic violence doesn't exist and isn't an issue but we shouldn't be discussing it alongside domestic violence against women because the underlying issues are very different.

But here's the thing.

When we connect every issue back to the fact women die, we are completely erasing everything else.

Seriously though, what is the solution to the two women dying a week? What is the answer? What are people not doing that they should be, or doing that they shouldn't be, I'd you get me.

@RootyT00t

In theory, that should work. But it doesn’t; it gets minimised and brushed under the carpet, and nothing changes.

Most posts haven’t been aggressive (yes, that one you referred to did cross the line), but they have stated uncomfortable truths about male violence. But no one has said that all men are guilty of it. However, there are men who could do more to challenge misogyny when they hear it. (Including some in some churches I’ve been to in the past, as I’ve stated before.)

@Juliesipadwillcallyouback

Not by me. I never said that, and I didn't put it on a par.

So why are you bringing up 'toxic MILs' during a discussion about male violence against women? It's totally irrelevant?

I've just

Oops sorry.

I've just explained this.

Not everything is an bloody comparison.

It was a point to show the analogy doesn't work.

[quote Mittens030869]@RootyT00t

In theory, that should work. But it doesn’t; it gets minimised and brushed under the carpet, and nothing changes.

Most posts haven’t been aggressive (yes, that one you referred to did cross the line), but they have stated uncomfortable truths about male violence. But no one has said that all men are guilty of it. However, there are men who could do more to challenge misogyny when they hear it. (Including some in some churches I’ve been to in the past, as I’ve stated before.)[/quote]
Agreed.

That is foul about the churches.

When we connect every issue back to the fact women die, we are completely erasing everything else.

No we aren't. That's is pretty fucking important.

Seriously though, what is the solution to the two women dying a week? What is the answer? What are people not doing that they should be, or doing that they shouldn't be, I'd you get me.

Men need to stop killing women. They need to stop viewing women as property and as less than them. They need to stop thinking they have rights over our bodies and our actions.

And we need to need to stop with the 'not all men'. It's distracting everyone from the real issues.

@TheJerkStore

When we connect every issue back to the fact women die, we are completely erasing everything else.

No we aren't. That's is pretty fucking important.

Seriously though, what is the solution to the two women dying a week? What is the answer? What are people not doing that they should be, or doing that they shouldn't be, I'd you get me.

Men need to stop killing women. They need to stop viewing women as property and as less than them. They need to stop thinking they have rights over our bodies and our actions.

And we need to need to stop with the 'not all men'. It's distracting everyone from the real issues.

Men need to stop killing women. They need to stop viewing women as property and as less than them. They need to stop thinking they have rights over our bodies and our actions.

Agreed, obviously

And we need to need to stop with the 'not all men'. It's distracting everyone from the real issues

Disagreed.

See how my issue is with the handling not tje subject?

When we connect every issue back to the fact women die, we are completely erasing everything else.

But many of us have tried to explain that the underlying misogyny in society allows for lower level aggressions to go unchallenged, be excused as 'boys will be boys' etc, which leads to too many men (not all men before I'm accused of saying that - nobody is so there's no need to counter it) feeling enabled and entitled to coerce, to harass, to abuse then too many men feeling enabled and entitled to attack, to rape and to kill.

Two women a week being murdered doesn't happen without the structure underneath holding it up. When we try to challenge that structure, we are told we are overreacting / boys will be boys / they don't mean anything by it.

When we explain the outcome of that structure is two murders a week and all of the other attacks on women both reported and unreported, we are told we are 'erasing everything else'.

I think you're always keen to play devils advocate @RootyT00t which can in some scenarios be constructive, but I can't understand what you're really saying here as you're unwilling to engage in the actual issue of male on female crime.

Yes there is male on male crime.
Yes there is female on male crime.
Neither is under the umbrella of male on female crime, which is enabled and excused by a patriarchal system and systemic misogyny. Surely you can see that?

And we need to need to stop with the 'not all men'. It's distracting everyone from the real issues

Disagreed.

See how my issue is with the handling not tje subject?

Well we'll just have to disagree here.