My husband says “notallmen”

[Lastchancesalonco]

NC for this! My teenage daughter and I were discussing the current outcry regarding violence against women and women living in fear, my husband entered the room, and immediately said it “wasn’t all men” and now men were “scared to do anything” wtf??? Scared to what exactly? Terrorise women? it’s very relevant I feel that my husband is a police sergeant! And although we do live in a very very low crime area so he doesn’t personally deal with many murders etc it’s mostly petty crime I KNOW he deals with domestic situations and has previously been very vocal about protecting people in domestic situations etc. This is very out of character for him, when pressed he said he felt people were “taking it too far” calling for a “6pm curfew” for men, when my daughter, who I’m ashamed to say was more vociferous than me because I was stunned, pointed out she effectively had an unofficial curfew for safety reasons, he seemed flustered like he hadnt thought of that, then he said “men are scared of attack too” and I said “who from? Who from? Not Denise on her way home pissed from her hen night is it? No it’s MEN you are scared of OTHER MEN” anyway he reflected a bit and was apologetic but I’m worried, he never used to be like this? Is he hearing some extremist narrative at work that poor white middle class men are under attack because the system that gives them every advantage is trying to be dismantled? He works with women and even a transsexual officer and has never shown any sign of prejudice or anything but acceptance for them and up till now never said anything concerning but he literally said “not all men” did we say it was??? I dunno it’s made me a bit sick, and I can’t help but wonder how a man who was previously totally on my wavelength about these things has changed to “but what about me”
Especially when we have a teenage daughter who will be going off to uni soon and won’t be in her safe little village! AIBU to take this so seriously or was he just being a giant selfish man baby and truly sees the error of his ways?

*It's this attitude which as evidenced upthread causes people to tune out.

You cannot stamp your feet and expect to be heard. (Althoigh no one is arguing the issue needs to be)*

Because normally men listen to women and don't centre things around themselves? Yes people are tuning out. That reflects very poorly on them.

Frankly it should not matter one bit whether women are "stamping their feet", when what they are talking about is being abused and murdered. You cannot claim to be taking the issue seriously if you genuinely think "yes it's appalling how women are treated, which trickles down into all aspects of society including the ones I engage with, but I don't like the way you said it so I'm going to choose to ignore it". It is pettiness, defensiveness, and lack of empathy that makes them behave that way.

Yes, men are "tuning out and not listening", but that is really nothing new. Nothing from history gives me any impression they would have reacted differently if only we'd expressed ourselves more nicely. It reflects poorly on them that they need it to be said nicely (and then again that they completely ignore it when it is).

@aSofaNearYou

*It's this attitude which as evidenced upthread causes people to tune out.

You cannot stamp your feet and expect to be heard. (Althoigh no one is arguing the issue needs to be)*

Because normally men listen to women and don't centre things around themselves? Yes people are tuning out. That reflects very poorly on them.

Frankly it should not matter one bit whether women are "stamping their feet", when what they are talking about is being abused and murdered. You cannot claim to be taking the issue seriously if you genuinely think "yes it's appalling how women are treated, which trickles down into all aspects of society including the ones I engage with, but I don't like the way you said it so I'm going to choose to ignore it". It is pettiness, defensiveness, and lack of empathy that makes them behave that way.

Yes, men are "tuning out and not listening", but that is really nothing new. Nothing from history gives me any impression they would have reacted differently if only we'd expressed ourselves more nicely. It reflects poorly on them that they need it to be said nicely (and then again that they completely ignore it when it is).

Women are always tuning out though, sofa. I know you don't like that idea and I can genuinely see why but it's true.

Also sorry not always

Women are always tuning out though, sofa. I know you don't like that idea and I can genuinely see why but it's true.

Tuning out of what, exactly?

Haven't even read this lola. 😴 Stop derailing
Not derailing, just clarifying some of your assertions for the benefit of those who haven't seen your track record on several threads in the last week or so (note, not months ago as you claim).

@LolaSmiles

Haven't even read this lola. 😴 Stop derailing Not derailing, just clarifying some of your assertions for the benefit of those who haven't seen your track record on several threads in the last week or so (note, not months ago as you claim).

😴

Derailing means talking about things that aren't relevant to the topic

Nobody cares what you have to say about your opinions of me. Least of all me . So continue if you like but don't expect me to engage. 😴

Frankly it should not matter one bit whether women are "stamping their feet", when what they are talking about is being abused and murdered. You cannot claim to be taking the issue seriously if you genuinely think "yes it's appalling how women are treated, which trickles down into all aspects of society including the ones I engage with, but I don't like the way you said it so I'm going to choose to ignore it". It is pettiness, defensiveness, and lack of empathy that makes them behave that way.
You're spot on.

There's quite a lot of underlying misogyny when people say things like:
Of course it's a serious matter, but women are just going on about it
Nobody is saying you shouldn't talk about it, but do you have to get so angry
Maybe there's lots of men who would support you but you're top busy blaming all men and being angry. Why would men want to help angry women who hate them?
can't you be a bit calmer about it / nobody is going to want to engage with hysterical man hating
Etc.

There's nothing nice about telling women you'll only listen to their concerns about systemic sexism and male violence if they ask nicely, use the right tone and lavish praise on you for not being a rapist.

There's quite a lot of underlying misogyny when people say things like:
Of course it's a serious matter, but women are just going on about it
Nobody is saying you shouldn't talk about it, but do you have to get so angry
Maybe there's lots of men who would support you but you're top busy blaming all men and being angry. Why would men want to help angry women who hate them?
can't you be a bit calmer about it / nobody is going to want to engage with hysterical man hating
Etc.

There's nothing nice about telling women you'll only listen to their concerns about systemic sexism and male violence if they ask nicely, use the right tone and lavish praise on you for not being a rapist.

100% this.

There's nothing nice about telling women you'll only listen to their concerns about systemic sexism and male violence if they ask nicely, use the right tone and lavish praise on you for not being a rapist.

100%

But we aren't saying thst. There's a difference between telling women to ask nicely or theul be raped and suggesting that the current tactic isn't working.

**There's quite a lot of underlying misogyny when people say things like:
Of course it's a serious matter, but women are just going on about it
Nobody is saying you shouldn't talk about it, but do you have to get so angry
Maybe there's lots of men who would support you but you're top busy blaming all men and being angry. Why would men want to help angry women who hate them?
can't you be a bit calmer about it / nobody is going to want to engage with hysterical man hating
Etc.

There's nothing nice about telling women you'll only listen to their concerns about systemic sexism and male violence if they ask nicely, use the right tone and lavish praise on you for not being a rapist.*

This with knobs on. The real problem is, I think, is that women have been trained for too long to be nice to men. So when we get angry, some women tell us to calm down and not hurt men’s feelings.

If you think about it, the changes that have been made to improve women’s lives haven’t happened because women asked nicely, have they?

This thread continues to sadden me. I am female. I am just one female in a world where we make up over 50% of the world's population yet this thread reflects that even in 2021 where violence against women is predominately by men we have to keep coming to the defense of men who feel demonised. You know what? My DH calls me when I'm out for a walk with a friend after dark or picks me up rather than me getting a train home after a night out because he too is afraid that a man could hurt me. I know it's not all men, he knows it's not all men but it's still too many men. He does not feel demonised, he's listening, he's changing and that's bloody great.

@LolaSmiles

Frankly it should not matter one bit whether women are "stamping their feet", when what they are talking about is being abused and murdered. You cannot claim to be taking the issue seriously if you genuinely think "yes it's appalling how women are treated, which trickles down into all aspects of society including the ones I engage with, but I don't like the way you said it so I'm going to choose to ignore it". It is pettiness, defensiveness, and lack of empathy that makes them behave that way. You're spot on.

There's quite a lot of underlying misogyny when people say things like:
Of course it's a serious matter, but women are just going on about it
Nobody is saying you shouldn't talk about it, but do you have to get so angry
Maybe there's lots of men who would support you but you're top busy blaming all men and being angry. Why would men want to help angry women who hate them?
can't you be a bit calmer about it / nobody is going to want to engage with hysterical man hating
Etc.

There's nothing nice about telling women you'll only listen to their concerns about systemic sexism and male violence if they ask nicely, use the right tone and lavish praise on you for not being a rapist.

Yep this sums it up nicely

@Mittens030869

**There's quite a lot of underlying misogyny when people say things like: Of course it's a serious matter, but women are just going on about it Nobody is saying you shouldn't talk about it, but do you have to get so angry Maybe there's lots of men who would support you but you're top busy blaming all men and being angry. Why would men want to help angry women who hate them? can't you be a bit calmer about it / nobody is going to want to engage with hysterical man hating Etc.

There's nothing nice about telling women you'll only listen to their concerns about systemic sexism and male violence if they ask nicely, use the right tone and lavish praise on you for not being a rapist.*

This with knobs on. The real problem is, I think, is that women have been trained for too long to be nice to men. So when we get angry, some women tell us to calm down and not hurt men’s feelings.

If you think about it, the changes that have been made to improve women’s lives haven’t happened because women asked nicely, have they?

People, not men.

Nowhere in mittens' thread did they say it was only men.

The real problem is, I think, is that women have been trained for too long to be nice to men. So when we get angry, some women tell us to calm down and not hurt men’s feelings
Spot on.
It's all about being nice, smile nicely, don't speak up because you'll draw attention to yourself, no you can't be group leader because that makes you bossy so we'll give it to the boy, why are you being so aggressive (aka being assertive), why are you being so cold (aka having boundaries), why are you being so angry (aka being passionate), why are you worrying about a man walking close to you on a dark night? Don't you know he could be my Nigel and he would be ever so upset if he knew you thought he might be a threat. Poor nigel, won't you please stop talking about your feelings about your safety as my Niger might be triggered by it.

We're conditioned to sit back and look pretty from the day we are born, so when some women decide to step out of that it's viewed negatively.

@Hobbitytoes

Nowhere in mittens' thread did they say it was only men.

You misunderstood.

I didn't write it well.

Mittens said it's about being nice to men. It's about being nice to people.

I absolutely agree that white people as a class should educate themselves as to their white privilege, to racism, and how to be good allies.

But yes, I do think that's a touch of whataboutery.

Without wanting to distract from current topic, why do many people demand men as a class take responsibility but don't suggest that white people as a class do too?
Because right now the discussion is about male violence and systemic sexism.

In the threads following BLM protests people were talking about white privilege. White people have a duty to challenge casual racism and harmful stereotyping, just like men do regarding women.

But that isn't the topic at hand here and each time someone says "but what about this other topic" the focus is the same: to deteact from the issue that women are talking about.

@LolaSmiles

The real problem is, I think, is that women have been trained for too long to be nice to men. So when we get angry, some women tell us to calm down and not hurt men’s feelings Spot on. It's all about being nice, smile nicely, don't speak up because you'll draw attention to yourself, no you can't be group leader because that makes you bossy so we'll give it to the boy, why are you being so aggressive (aka being assertive), why are you being so cold (aka having boundaries), why are you being so angry (aka being passionate), why are you worrying about a man walking close to you on a dark night? Don't you know he could be my Nigel and he would be ever so upset if he knew you thought he might be a threat. Poor nigel, won't you please stop talking about your feelings about your safety as my Niger might be triggered by it.

We're conditioned to sit back and look pretty from the day we are born, so when some women decide to step out of that it's viewed negatively.

In fairness though Lola tin hat donned what is a man labelled as if he's angry?

And that should have been we should educate ourselves as to our white privlege. . .