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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

My husband says “notallmen”

999 replies

Lastchancesalonco · 25/03/2021 07:18

NC for this! My teenage daughter and I were discussing the current outcry regarding violence against women and women living in fear, my husband entered the room, and immediately said it “wasn’t all men” and now men were “scared to do anything” wtf??? Scared to what exactly? Terrorise women? it’s very relevant I feel that my husband is a police sergeant! And although we do live in a very very low crime area so he doesn’t personally deal with many murders etc it’s mostly petty crime I KNOW he deals with domestic situations and has previously been very vocal about protecting people in domestic situations etc. This is very out of character for him, when pressed he said he felt people were “taking it too far” calling for a “6pm curfew” for men, when my daughter, who I’m ashamed to say was more vociferous than me because I was stunned, pointed out she effectively had an unofficial curfew for safety reasons, he seemed flustered like he hadnt thought of that, then he said “men are scared of attack too” and I said “who from? Who from? Not Denise on her way home pissed from her hen night is it? No it’s MEN you are scared of OTHER MEN” anyway he reflected a bit and was apologetic but I’m worried, he never used to be like this? Is he hearing some extremist narrative at work that poor white middle class men are under attack because the system that gives them every advantage is trying to be dismantled? He works with women and even a transsexual officer and has never shown any sign of prejudice or anything but acceptance for them and up till now never said anything concerning but he literally said “not all men” did we say it was??? I dunno it’s made me a bit sick, and I can’t help but wonder how a man who was previously totally on my wavelength about these things has changed to “but what about me”
Especially when we have a teenage daughter who will be going off to uni soon and won’t be in her safe little village! AIBU to take this so seriously or was he just being a giant selfish man baby and truly sees the error of his ways?

OP posts:
CallItLoneliness · 27/03/2021 04:52

Oh for fuck's sake STOP with the Muslim comparison. Fewer than 1/20,000,000,000 Muslims has engaged in terrorism (white atheist, for what it is worth). 1/20 men is a rapist. They aren't monsters who hide under the bed, they are normal men who get women drunk, or force someone they are already with. WAY more than that catcall, grope, harass, use abusive language etc.

Saying, "oi, you lot have a culture problem" to a group where 1 in 20 million people does a thing (that is also done by other groups but called something else) is racist. Saying it to a group where likely 1/3 of people do a thing is reasonable.

Kyniska · 27/03/2021 05:42

Sorry, are we boing reasonable? A woman is raped/murdered are bad? A mother smothered her child? Are all mothers evil?? Must be nice up there on that pedestal judging every man for the sin of a few. Men are all evil. We women are great, never do a singal thing wrong. All men are evil forever. OK. Look in the mirror, perhaps we should judge ourselves first.

jontyl · 27/03/2021 06:19

@DeepThinkingGirl

The risk women pose to men is trivial in comparison to the risk men pose to women. It’s also irrelevant to the discussion about how women can be safe and respected in society.

It’s not irrelevant to the discussion of this thread. In fact it is of utmost relevance.

Most men are also abused by patriarchy and other men physically . Also abused by women emotionally. In fact the earliest point of aggression by toxic masculinity is towards younger boys who are raised to trivialise their own voices and feelings and often abused in desperate attempts to prove their masculinity.

So to group them with their abuser is not only offensive, but also trivialising to their issues. As well as directly serving the narrative that of the patriarchy.

And for women to be protesting that NAMALT men are trivialising their safety concerns, would be hypocritical.

We should really be working to a common human standards. Safety is not a unique concern to women. But yes the impact of cross gender sexual related violence is almost overwhelmingly unique to women.

But the type of language we are using isn’t specific to sexual violence. We are grouping all men as a social group based on the impact of the aggressive ones on women..

Almost certainly fortifying the narrative that these men represent all men... almost certainly giving them the power they want and which they use to abuse both men and women alike in different ways..

I think we are classifying women as worthy of empathy based on their experiences..

But we are judging men for talking about their experiences and telling them there is no space in the world for empathy towards them..

So truly, I don’t think this will lead to cooperation.

Very well thought out reply. Get men on side to help root out the bad apples.
AvocadosBeforeMortgages · 27/03/2021 06:34

Not all men attack women - but if I handed you a box of Malteasers and told you that one was actually a chocolate covered spherical turd, wouldn't you treat the whole box with suspicion?

Ddot · 27/03/2021 06:39

Men being abused by men terrible, men being abused by women terrible,
Woman being too afraid to go out after dark, is a completely different situation. Its gone on too long and needs to change.
I WANT MY FREEDOM!

twelly · 27/03/2021 06:43

I do not believe the statistic 1 in 20 men is a rapist. As a human race we need to challenge violence and sexual crimes, the demonisation of men is not productive. I would go as far to say this approach is not good for the advancement of equality. Not all men are the same, not all women are the same - some women I call my friends, others I agree with , some I disagree with, some I don't like and most I don't know. Some men need to change their behaviour - yes.

Cannotgarden · 27/03/2021 06:47

It is most men though. Even the 'good' ones engage in benevolent sexism.

Ehmbeeh · 27/03/2021 06:58

No, not all men, however if I gave you a box of honey combed round balls dipped in chocolate and told you one was a ball of shit dipped in chocolate and looked exactly the same as the others, would you not be wary of them all?

Unfortunately, predatory men do not have an odour!

Wtfdoipick · 27/03/2021 07:10

We have a serious issue over the way men (as a class) treat women (as a class). I could start listing all the ways I've been sexually harassed, groped, propositioned, pestered, sent unsolicited dick pics (modern equivalent to flashing) and raped and every one of those incidences come down to men (as a class) treating me as sub human. They are all about my no being worthless , I'm only a female so I can't possibly know my own mind

twelly · 27/03/2021 07:19

Well if we apply these analogies we would say would say the whole of the human race were dangerous - which to be honest is probably more realistic than blaming one section. Everyone male or female has the propensity to be violent and aggressive.

pacificblue · 27/03/2021 07:23

Well thank goodness for you and your daughter challenging him and grounding him

secretllama · 27/03/2021 07:29

@Frazzledmum123

I dont like the way it is all worded myself. Women aren't at risk from men full stop, women are at risk from violent men and that is how it should be worded. I hate generalisation of any group of people based on the action of some. The vast majority of terrorism at the moment is caused by Muslim extremists but you wouldn't dare say as a nation we are at risk from or have a problem with Muslims because that would be so wrong. I have daughter's, I want them to grow up safe and I absolutely agree things need to change but I can also see why it must be upsetting for the good men to hear we have a problem with 'men' not with 'evil men/dangerous men/violent men'. Something said about women in a negative way is considered sexist but if a man gets upset by generalisation he is abused for it. I think the conversations being had at the moment are very important and long overdue but the wording is not right at all
I agree with this. Whenever there's an Islamic terrorist attack, people are so quick (and rightly so) to immediately remind people that its not all Muslims, its a minority etc. I dont see how it's any different to saying that not all men are rapists. Because quite obviously not all men are rapists. I just don't get the generalisation for either of these examples, but it annoys me more that one is acceptable and one isn't , and is actually mocked. You wouldn't mock someone saying not all Muslims are terrorists.
jillybeanclevertips · 27/03/2021 07:48

Violence in any situation is not aceptable, you should thank him for opening up the discussion- and discuss it together to see if he is feeling bad about anything else.

tangerinelollipop · 27/03/2021 07:57

to see if he is feeling bad about anything else

I doubt this man will be inclined to open his mouth again Confused

CallItLoneliness · 27/03/2021 07:58

@twelly do you also disbelieve other science? Or just science that makes you take a long hard look at the men around you?

Lisak D, Miller PM. Repeat rape and multiple offending among undetected rapists. Violence Vict. 2002 Feb;17(1):73-84. doi: 10.1891/vivi.17.1.73.33638. PMID: 11991158.

Bertiebiscuit · 27/03/2021 08:01

I'd be very worried if I were you - he's going to the dark side - doesn't look good

year5teacher · 27/03/2021 08:01

I would really, really hate this OP. If my DP turned around and said “not ALL men...” 🤢 it’s the fact that that’s the response to the situation. Not like acknowledging that women actually do have very valid reasons to be frightened of men when they walk home alone (or in other situations), it’s immediately defending men and deflecting the problem. Gross

TheJerkStore · 27/03/2021 08:02

@twelly

Well if we apply these analogies we would say would say the whole of the human race were dangerous - which to be honest is probably more realistic than blaming one section. Everyone male or female has the propensity to be violent and aggressive.
Yes but are women killing 2 men a week? Have over 90% of men claimed to be sexually harassed or assaulted by women? Do men feel physically threatened by women on a daily basis? No

I'm not saying women can't be aggressive or violent BUT IT ISN'T THE SAME!!

And to bring it up in a discussion about male violence towards women doesn't help.

twelly · 27/03/2021 08:10

Thank you for the link to clarify the statistics, the data is based on a sample of just under 2000 men, it's American and it mentions the pooling of 4 samples. It does. It appear to be a sample from the population at large therefore that statistic is flawed. I do not believe it.

MagnoliaXYZ · 27/03/2021 08:12

@Christmasjoy

He is right though, it's not all men. I hate that we cannot say this because the simple fact is that it is not all men.

Women do not have an unspoken curfew. All people out at night have to be more careful, all people at night should be looking after there safety. Yes there ate bad apples but actually a recent spate of muggings in my area have been done by a group of women but no we must not speak about that.

As a woman I find it so depressing to read how we have become this stereotypical hysterical women. Yes we have to be careful, yes there are dangers out there but to make our young women scared of all men is insane.

I blame a year of lockdowns, nothing else to focus on and no social norms for a year.

Totally agree! It makes women appear hysterical.
TheJerkStore · 27/03/2021 08:15

Totally agree! It makes women appear hysterical.

Careful, your misogyny is showing .......

georgarina · 27/03/2021 08:16

Tell him it may be 'Not All Men' - but what would he say if a woman accepted a lift home from a man on her way home and was attacked? Would he say she should have known better? Or a female jogger kidnapped at night - she shouldn't have been out?

If it's 'not all men,' why are women victim blamed for not being more careful when they are attacked by a man?

All women are expected to protect themselves against all men in their daily lives. Therefore, it IS all men.

Sophicles · 27/03/2021 08:29

The "correct" answer was: "Of course, not you, (insert pet name)" and he would have wandered off, the proud defender of his women. He's always thought he was part of the solution, not the problem, especially as a policeman, but all men think this.

MrsLighthouse · 27/03/2021 08:36

Could be worse ...my husband randomly started defending Trump !!! 😳

Frazzledmum123 · 27/03/2021 09:18

@CallItLoneliness I get the proportions aren't the same and I do get that that things need to change, @SilverMirrors is completely right and suddenly I'm pleased my son isn't in the 'popular' group BUT you can't have one rule for one and another for another, the point still stands that if I were to say eg women were weaker then men, or something along those lines (I'm tired so not the best example) I'd be crucified as being sexist. I want equality for my daughters but EQUALITY, not for my son to be raised to believe that the world is against him for being male.
The fact that people are saying men are attacked by MEN so it is a problem with men is a bit contradictory, even good men aren't safe because they problem is with bad people, evil people who are out to hurt and its those TYPES of men we need to deal with