My husband says “notallmen”

[Lastchancesalonco]

NC for this! My teenage daughter and I were discussing the current outcry regarding violence against women and women living in fear, my husband entered the room, and immediately said it “wasn’t all men” and now men were “scared to do anything” wtf??? Scared to what exactly? Terrorise women? it’s very relevant I feel that my husband is a police sergeant! And although we do live in a very very low crime area so he doesn’t personally deal with many murders etc it’s mostly petty crime I KNOW he deals with domestic situations and has previously been very vocal about protecting people in domestic situations etc. This is very out of character for him, when pressed he said he felt people were “taking it too far” calling for a “6pm curfew” for men, when my daughter, who I’m ashamed to say was more vociferous than me because I was stunned, pointed out she effectively had an unofficial curfew for safety reasons, he seemed flustered like he hadnt thought of that, then he said “men are scared of attack too” and I said “who from? Who from? Not Denise on her way home pissed from her hen night is it? No it’s MEN you are scared of OTHER MEN” anyway he reflected a bit and was apologetic but I’m worried, he never used to be like this? Is he hearing some extremist narrative at work that poor white middle class men are under attack because the system that gives them every advantage is trying to be dismantled? He works with women and even a transsexual officer and has never shown any sign of prejudice or anything but acceptance for them and up till now never said anything concerning but he literally said “not all men” did we say it was??? I dunno it’s made me a bit sick, and I can’t help but wonder how a man who was previously totally on my wavelength about these things has changed to “but what about me”
Especially when we have a teenage daughter who will be going off to uni soon and won’t be in her safe little village! AIBU to take this so seriously or was he just being a giant selfish man baby and truly sees the error of his ways?

@Lastchancesalonco

NC for this! My teenage daughter and I were discussing the current outcry regarding violence against women and women living in fear, my husband entered the room, and immediately said it “wasn’t all men” and now men were “scared to do anything” wtf??? Scared to what exactly? Terrorise women? it’s very relevant I feel that my husband is a police sergeant! And although we do live in a very very low crime area so he doesn’t personally deal with many murders etc it’s mostly petty crime I KNOW he deals with domestic situations and has previously been very vocal about protecting people in domestic situations etc. This is very out of character for him, when pressed he said he felt people were “taking it too far” calling for a “6pm curfew” for men, when my daughter, who I’m ashamed to say was more vociferous than me because I was stunned, pointed out she effectively had an unofficial curfew for safety reasons, he seemed flustered like he hadnt thought of that, then he said “men are scared of attack too” and I said “who from? Who from? Not Denise on her way home pissed from her hen night is it? No it’s MEN you are scared of OTHER MEN” anyway he reflected a bit and was apologetic but I’m worried, he never used to be like this? Is he hearing some extremist narrative at work that poor white middle class men are under attack because the system that gives them every advantage is trying to be dismantled? He works with women and even a transsexual officer and has never shown any sign of prejudice or anything but acceptance for them and up till now never said anything concerning but he literally said “not all men” did we say it was??? I dunno it’s made me a bit sick, and I can’t help but wonder how a man who was previously totally on my wavelength about these things has changed to “but what about me” Especially when we have a teenage daughter who will be going off to uni soon and won’t be in her safe little village! AIBU to take this so seriously or was he just being a giant selfish man baby and truly sees the error of his ways?

I would just like to say that as a man raising 2 children, I have lost count of time's my opinions, and how I choose to parent my children, have been challenged by woman who think know better. The abcent's of a mother alone, I have heard people gossip about and assume I am guilty of some wrong doing. Reading this post and some of the comment's actually make my angry. But god help if i shout about it...That will just make me an angry man.....Let me tell you, Men can not be men these day's. No one care's about their feeling, or right's when it come's raising children. And why because a police office killed a women, is everyone jumping on the all men a violent beast wagon. when it should be about how come a violent physco, managed to get him self into the police force where he can abuse his power's to take a life.....It's this kind of talk that quite rightly your husband felt offended by....Women also abuse and murder men, but it is seldom written about....is this equal in your eye's, or will i be riddiculled because I am a man and complaining about somthing that upset's me on a very personal level. let's see if the trolls out wiegh the supporters....like a big fat elephent on a see saw opposite a dwarf I bet...prove me wrong and i will take it all back !

@PurpleDaisies

No one’s concerns should be trivialised. We are a wholesome society and don’t work in segregated task forces

The risk women pose to men is trivial in comparison to the risk men pose to women. It’s also irrelevant to the discussion about how women can be safe and respected in society.

So one posters valid experiences are trivial because he's a man? Is that what we've got to?

[quote Mittens030869]@RootyT00t

I have talked about the damage done to my DB. I know that men are victims of violence and sexual assault. Mostly at the hands of other men, but yes I know that some suffer DA victims are men at the hands of women.

No one has disputed any of this. But in recent times, women are angry about the brutal murder of a woman at the hands of a man, and they’re talking about the abuse they’ve suffered at the hands of men.

I’m not being unkind to the decent men in know, including my lovely DH, by talking about it.

Why do you constantly want to silence women talking about this?[/quote]
I don't want to silence anyone. I want all voices to be heard.

Did you see the post where a man was very open about his abusive experiences and the response was but you weren't raped?

I ask again. Is that OK?

@DeepThinkingGirl

So if black protestors said

“White people need to be held accountable for their racism”.

Wouldn’t white people say “not all whites people”?

I think polarising and alienating language by protestors isn’t at all helpful

No they would say yes the white people that are racist do.

To be totally clear, I absolutely think men suffering violence and abuse at the hands of women (or men) should be supported and it’s an important issue.

It’s a totally DIFFERENT issue to the problem of male treatment of women in society. It has no place in the conversation. The causes and solutions are totally different and bringing it up is at best a distraction and at worst a total silencing of women’s valid concerns.

@PurpleDaisies

To be totally clear, I absolutely think men suffering violence and abuse at the hands of women (or men) should be supported and it’s an important issue.

It’s a totally DIFFERENT issue to the problem of male treatment of women in society. It has no place in the conversation. The causes and solutions are totally different and bringing it up is at best a distraction and at worst a total silencing of women’s valid concerns.

Right But the OP was about men.

But the OP was about men

About men’s treatment of women.

Does anyone honestly think the PP talking about his abuse at the hands of woman was saying 'so there, silence women?'. No . He was sharing his own , very valid concerns.

Now if he was a female, PP would have fell over him.

So how is this OK, that he was dismissed?

@Staffy1

I agree with your DD that women already have an unofficial curfew, but also with your DH that it's not all men. Why can't he say that without everyone getting enraged by it, it's a truthful statement?

Why can't women talk about their experiences without someone saying not all men and portraying men as the victims?

@RootyT00t

Does anyone honestly think the PP talking about his abuse at the hands of woman was saying 'so there, silence women?'. No . He was sharing his own , very valid concerns.

Now if he was a female, PP would have fell over him.

So how is this OK, that he was dismissed?

What happened to that poster was awful.

That doesn’t change the fact that this is a discussion about women’s experiences. It’s a discussion about how women have been treated by men.

@rootytoot I think you like being goady in these threads .For whatever reason, who cares really.
I asked that because once again NO ONE is saying women aren't violent. But after a man coming on here and listing all the times a woman had been aggressive towards him, has he ever, ever been scared for his life that a woman has. That he will die at the hands of a woman. That he may live his life through fear of a woman.

But I know what your reply will be (and honestly I don't give a crap what it is) as I'm not wasting my energy feeding the troll in you.

No more engagement from me.

That’s a good plan @Silenceisgolden20 and I totally agree.

Bedtime for me.

@Sparkyduchess

I think any man who reacts negatively to the idea that men, as a class, represent a threat to women is exactly the man who needs to examine his behaviour

Yes, this is the point.

@RootyT00t

I agree that that was very wrong and shouldn’t have been said at all. No one should be spoken to like that.

But I was addressing you. Every time a woman talks quite openly about her experiences you dismissively tell her that she’s demonising men. I haven’t done that at all, and I haven’t seen any posts that were intentionally doing that, though some have displayed a lot of anger.

I’ve even spoken about what happened to my DB, a man. So I’m certainly not saying that men haven’t suffered sexual abuse. (I don’t know the stats, but I think that there are probably a lot of people like my DB who haven’t spoken up about having been abused as children.)

The perpetrators of SA, though, are mainly men, though a lot of women are guilty of allowing it to happen.

I suspect that there are a lot of men who suffered physical or emotional abuse at the hands of their mothers who haven’t reported it, though. You only need to look at the Stately Homes thread to know that.

And yes, I know that there are men who have been abused by women. (I’ve said that plenty of times, too.)

So no, I’m not saying that there are no male victims.

It sounds like you're agreeing as this programme was also about male abusers.

But I think that particular poster got that response because it felt like a way to stop women talking about the very real fear they face of sexual assault. But, as I said, it did cross a line IMO.

The risk women pose to men is trivial in comparison to the risk men pose to women. It’s also irrelevant to the discussion about how women can be safe and respected in society.

It’s not irrelevant to the discussion of this thread. In fact it is of utmost relevance.

Most men are also abused by patriarchy and other men physically . Also abused by women emotionally. In fact the earliest point of aggression by toxic masculinity is towards younger boys who are raised to trivialise their own voices and feelings and often abused in desperate attempts to prove their masculinity.

So to group them with their abuser is not only offensive, but also trivialising to their issues. As well as directly serving the narrative that of the patriarchy.

And for women to be protesting that NAMALT men are trivialising their safety concerns, would be hypocritical.

We should really be working to a common human standards. Safety is not a unique concern to women. But yes the impact of cross gender sexual related violence is almost overwhelmingly unique to women.

But the type of language we are using isn’t specific to sexual violence. We are grouping all men as a social group based on the impact of the aggressive ones on women..

Almost certainly fortifying the narrative that these men represent all men... almost certainly giving them the power they want and which they use to abuse both men and women alike in different ways..

I think we are classifying women as worthy of empathy based on their experiences..

But we are judging men for talking about their experiences and telling them there is no space in the world for empathy towards them..

So truly, I don’t think this will lead to cooperation.

@PinkPanther27

I didn’t see it, but I’ve heard a lot about the football victims and it’s been horrific. It’s made me think more about what my DB went through.

@bellie710

I feel so sorry for men, they are now not allowed to remind people that not all men are complete lunatics or sexual predators.

I feel sorry for women who have found the courage to speak out about the violence they've experienced are are shut down and told they're anti-men.

Statistically more men are killed by other men, than men kill women. Violent crimes tend to be commited by more men than women, men are more violent than women in general, this is true, but your more likley to be killed by a man if you are a man, than killed by a man if you are a woman...I think your husband walked in on the back end of a conversation, and assumed you were talking the same shit, he is probably hearing through the day on the media and out and about....it should'nt be a gender argument but an argument about violence full stop....

[quote Mittens030869]@PinkPanther27

I didn’t see it, but I’ve heard a lot about the football victims and it’s been horrific. It’s made me think more about what my DB went through.[/quote]
Yes it's awful and breaks my heart. I work with survivors of abuse- male and female, although I'd say 98% of my clients are female. Noone should ever have to experience this and I'm truly sorry for what happened to your DB.

@Silenceisgolden20. You’ve just belittled the PP who recounted his experience of abuse at the hands of women, by asking if it went as far as rape. Would you say that to a woman recounting similar experiences ? No, you wouldn’t , so why say it to a man ? You ARE using rape as a trump card and that benefits no-one., it’s designed to shut down the debate in the same way as calling someone a racist if their opinion differs to yours. Disgusting.

Wasn't it the pier in the house of commons/Lords said that though ? Perhaps he took that at face value. It wasn't meant to be taken that way. Here is an article (maybe not relevant I've not rtft www.google.com/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/baroness-jones-why-did-so-many-people-take-her-6pm-curfew-for-men-proposal-at-face-value-157183)

I dont like the way it is all worded myself. Women aren't at risk from men full stop, women are at risk from violent men and that is how it should be worded. I hate generalisation of any group of people based on the action of some. The vast majority of terrorism at the moment is caused by Muslim extremists but you wouldn't dare say as a nation we are at risk from or have a problem with Muslims because that would be so wrong. I have daughter's, I want them to grow up safe and I absolutely agree things need to change but I can also see why it must be upsetting for the good men to hear we have a problem with 'men' not with 'evil men/dangerous men/violent men'. Something said about women in a negative way is considered sexist but if a man gets upset by generalisation he is abused for it. I think the conversations being had at the moment are very important and long overdue but the wording is not right at all

Also ncd for this. The problem is the system. Entitled behaviour starts in the home, then gets rubber stamped at school where the pack work together to create an environment where alpha males become the "cool kids", and that includes their dreadful sexist attitudes to girls and women. This is not challenged and is upheld by all the kids effectively being, unwittingly or otherwise, complicit in maintaining the status quo. Anyone, boy or girl, who calls it out is a reject. My own 15 year old boy reported another boy for sexual abuse of a girl in his year. The school took it seriously. What did the kids do? Called him a snitch and a grass and ostracised him. Including the girls. It meant they maybe wouldn't be able to go to their drunken parties any more, so. Not all of them though. So that's okay right?