My husband says “notallmen”

[Lastchancesalonco]

NC for this! My teenage daughter and I were discussing the current outcry regarding violence against women and women living in fear, my husband entered the room, and immediately said it “wasn’t all men” and now men were “scared to do anything” wtf??? Scared to what exactly? Terrorise women? it’s very relevant I feel that my husband is a police sergeant! And although we do live in a very very low crime area so he doesn’t personally deal with many murders etc it’s mostly petty crime I KNOW he deals with domestic situations and has previously been very vocal about protecting people in domestic situations etc. This is very out of character for him, when pressed he said he felt people were “taking it too far” calling for a “6pm curfew” for men, when my daughter, who I’m ashamed to say was more vociferous than me because I was stunned, pointed out she effectively had an unofficial curfew for safety reasons, he seemed flustered like he hadnt thought of that, then he said “men are scared of attack too” and I said “who from? Who from? Not Denise on her way home pissed from her hen night is it? No it’s MEN you are scared of OTHER MEN” anyway he reflected a bit and was apologetic but I’m worried, he never used to be like this? Is he hearing some extremist narrative at work that poor white middle class men are under attack because the system that gives them every advantage is trying to be dismantled? He works with women and even a transsexual officer and has never shown any sign of prejudice or anything but acceptance for them and up till now never said anything concerning but he literally said “not all men” did we say it was??? I dunno it’s made me a bit sick, and I can’t help but wonder how a man who was previously totally on my wavelength about these things has changed to “but what about me”
Especially when we have a teenage daughter who will be going off to uni soon and won’t be in her safe little village! AIBU to take this so seriously or was he just being a giant selfish man baby and truly sees the error of his ways?

Libraryghost

You’re probably right, though, that there must be a lot of men who never talk about what happened to them as children. My DB is one of them. He claims to remember nothing, but my DSis and I both remember bad things happening to him.

The tragedy is that he’s much more damaged by the past than we are. We’ve both created lives for ourselves whereas he hasn’t.

However, yes it was men who hurt him, not women.

@Mittens030869 that is so sad. It’s that ‘masculinity’ thing again. I was shocked that grown men were denying it happened because they thought it made them lesser men. Very tragic.

It is indeed terrible that any group in society feels threatened by another, not least women fearful of men. However, this shout out itself has at times been overwhelmingly threatening to all men, when indeed not all men are aggressors. Just because a person is a man, does not mean that they are a member of the stereotype. As such there are some (but not all) women (and non-women women supporters) whose aggression towards men could be interpreted as sexist too. Here are the names of several women whose henous crimes are as memorable as those of Jack the Ripper: Aileen Wuornos, Judias Buenoano, Myra Hindley, Juana Barraza and Jane Toppan for a start. All serial murderers.
Yes its clear that there are many women who unfortunately feel unsafe from men, but equally there are many men who are terrified of women. However, they are unlikely to report it.
How terrified are all those young women who go out on a Saturday night wearing a thong with a micro-skirt with a breast-exposing top? Are those miillons scared to go out? Their costume might seem to imply the opposite. If a man wears a kilt on a night out, it is almost certain that the kilt will be lifted by at least one or two 'ladies' that night. I have seen it happen. Of course that does not justify unwanted behaviour. I just point out here that its not all one-sided.
I know a man who has been sexually molested no less than 12 times by different women as he walked down the street wearing normal jeans in broad daylight. Did he report these bizarre incidents? No. And its not so bizarre. It happens more than people realise. Don't get me wrong. Violence towards women is horrible, but so is violence towards men, whether it be from another man or not. Most men are not alpha male. Most men are as frightened of the aggressive men as women are. Men have to pretend to be tough so as not to be attacked too. Its not a men vs women issue. Its about non-consensual behaviours, violence, aggressive attitudes and verbal bullying. These sadly are in every society. Sometimes its a gender thing, sometimes its a race thing, and sometimes its just pure ignorance. So bring on the Awareness Campaign to all perpetrators. Education is key. But please don't make it polarised against men. Or else, the action itself becomes an antisocial, sexist emotional abuse towards many men who don't deserve it. Many men support non-violence towards women, so don't make them feel hated too. Some men are even feminists, so lets try to include them in this campaign rather than turn them into a fiery enemy.

[quote Silenceisgolden20]@RootyToot well you don't get to decide what is acceptable or not.
And you don't get to be the judge of how people can respond seeing as you write and argue as you like.[/quote]
I do. Absolutely. And I take the criticism.

But you can completely dismiss a response because he hasn't been raped?

@Juliesipadwillcallyouback

My main example is Maxine Carr. Without her input (and let's not pretend she was scared of Huntley, which I half accept that Philpott was) he would have been caught far quicker. She's now out.

Why don't you think she was scared of Huntley? What do you know about their relationship? He was already an abusive rapist before he was a murderer.

And how many female murderers or sex abusers can you name, where there was absolutely no involvement of a man anywhere along the way?

Right...

But you've proved my point.

Whether motivated by men or not, they are still dangerous.

Maxine's actions sent the police in the wrong direction.

Her fear of Ian (supposedly) delayed that family getting justice.

Like Philpott.

But the point is, even if you want to defend them, they are still dangerous

So how can you claim we should trust all women?

Yes its clear that there are many women who unfortunately feel unsafe from men, but equally there are many men who are terrified of women

You honestly think that’s an equal situation?

@PurpleDaisies

Yes its clear that there are many women who unfortunately feel unsafe from men, but equally there are many men who are terrified of women

You honestly think that’s an equal situation?

The fact that it isn't equal doesn't mean it doesn't happen .

So do we only care when it reaches a certain point?

Its not all men - some men are just as much victims as women, and some women are aggressive to other women. women do not all think the same and neither do men - we are all individuals

Yes, there have been plenty of evil women. Obviously Myra Hindley and Rose West, Vanessa George. (I don’t think they would have done what they had if there hadn’t been a man involved.)

There is an exception with that killer Joanna (I can’t remember her surname), who set out to kill men.

But it’s nevertheless very rare, hence why there is such a reaction of horror when we hear of it.

@Mittens030869

Yes, there have been plenty of evil women. Obviously Myra Hindley and Rose West, Vanessa George. (I don’t think they would have done what they had if there hadn’t been a man involved.)

There is an exception with that killer Joanna (I can’t remember her surname), who set out to kill men.

But it’s nevertheless very rare, hence why there is such a reaction of horror when we hear of it.

Right However

They still exist.

We all know a male friend who has been abused in some way by a woman. If you haven't you're lucky.

My point is this. It's not equatable, fine.

But these analogies with the snakes and maltesers and so on.

Are women perfect?

No

So why do we pretend we shouldn't also be cautious of women?

But the point remains, why are so many people wanting to stop women discussing the vulnerability of women? It’s just how it is. I remember how when I started at uni in London, the main thing the Students’ Union provided us with was a rape alarm.

I came from a small town, so it was a completely different world for me.

I feel so sorry for men, they are now not allowed to remind people that not all men are complete lunatics or sexual predators.

Oh for goodness' sake. Lots of men are absolute lovely and totally decent and protective of women. I'd say about 95% of all men I've ever met in my life.

@RootyT00t

I have talked about the damage done to my DB. I know that men are victims of violence and sexual assault. Mostly at the hands of other men, but yes I know that some suffer DA victims are men at the hands of women.

No one has disputed any of this. But in recent times, women are angry about the brutal murder of a woman at the hands of a man, and they’re talking about the abuse they’ve suffered at the hands of men.

I’m not being unkind to the decent men in know, including my lovely DH, by talking about it.

Why do you constantly want to silence women talking about this?

The fact that it isn't equal doesn't mean it doesn't happen

But it’s false balance to pretend that women being violent towards men is any way a similar problem to society as male violence towards women and other men.

Nobody is pretending women are perfect. Why can’t a discussion about the massive problem of male behaviour toward women stay as that? Why does it always get dragged back to “what about the poor men?” That’s a totally different

So if black protestors said

“White people need to be held accountable for their racism”.

Wouldn’t white people say “not all whites people”?

I think polarising and alienating language by protestors isn’t at all helpful

@bellie710

I feel so sorry for men, they are now not allowed to remind people that not all men are complete lunatics or sexual predators.

Nobody is alleging that.

So why do we pretend we shouldn't also be cautious of women?

I'm not pretending.

Do you not believe that many more males are violent towards women than women are towards men / women / children?

Do you not believe that the cases you mentioned are exceptions to the rule and that male on female violence / sexual assault / harassment is vastly greater in numbers than the reverse?

Do you not believe that?

Because I think you do know those things to be true and therefore I don't see how you can think bringing up extraordinarily rare exceptions to an otherwise evidence based rule is an appropriate or sensible response to the discussion about male on female violence / harassment.

People are perfectly free to be cautious of women. The reality is that if compared to female on male or female on female violence / assault, both experience and statistics mean that women are less of a threat to both men and also fellow women.

I don't think the comparison of "not all men" is the same as "not all muslims".

In my opinion, the reason the "slogans" came about are very different and therefore cannot be compared.

When generalisation are made about Muslims, such as "Muslims are terrorists", the consequences are serious.
The consequences are hostility, verbal abuse, physical violence, damage to property.
This is an extract from Muslims in Britain report and what some people suffered in the aftermath of 9/11:
Muslim adults and children were attacked, physically and verbally. They were punched, spat at, hit with umbrellas at bus stops and publicly doused with alcohol.
Dog excrement and fireworks were pushed through thier letterboxes.
They were called murderers and excluded from social gatherings.
One woman in Swindon was hospitalised after being beaten with a metal baseball bat.
A taxi driver was attacked and left paralysed from the neck down
Nine pigs heads were dumped outside a mosque in Exeter.

This isn't even the full extract.

The reason "notallmuslims" happened, was to stop this shit.

From what I can see, some men (and some women) say "not all men" because some innocent good men will be offended that women may view them as a risk.

From what I can see, some men (and some women) say "not all men" because some innocent good men will be offended that women may view them as a risk.

Whether they’re offended or not, it’s the truth for many women. Walking home alone in a quiet area, any man would make lots of women worry. That hasn’t come from nowhere.

Wow as a victim of abuse by a man and a woman its not all men and women can be just as bad if not worse saying to give people a curfew is a piss take, also if they just killed the fucking attackers once proved it would solve a huge issue

@PurpleDaisies

From what I can see, some men (and some women) say "not all men" because some innocent good men will be offended that women may view them as a risk.

Whether they’re offended or not, it’s the truth for many women. Walking home alone in a quiet area, any man would make lots of women worry. That hasn’t come from nowhere.

Absolutely PurpleDaisies.

Sorry if that didn't come across well in my post. I think I wrote about 4 pages and I realised it perhaps was a bit much!
I may have cut too much out.

Whether they’re offended or not, it’s the truth for many women. Walking home alone in a quiet area, any man would make lots of women worry. That hasn’t come from nowhere.

Are we ignoring the fact some women can be abusive to men and will totally hijack the narrative to go on to abuse innocent men..

So polarising language isn’t great for working as a team.

I think women have the right to address the risk that men pose

Men have the right to express the risk that such polarising pose

No one’s concerns should be trivialised. We are a wholesome society and don’t work in segregated task forces

@TheJerkStore

Our sex has nothing at all to do with it

When 2 women a week are murdered by their male current or former partner I would say sex has everything to do with it.

When over 90% of women state they have suffered sexual harassment by men I would say sex had everything to do with it.

That doesn't mean we're saying all men and it doesn't mean we don't understand that women can also be violent but male violence against women is a problem which needs to be addressed and shouting 'but women can be violent too' does not help one iota.

This

No one’s concerns should be trivialised. We are a wholesome society and don’t work in segregated task forces

The risk women pose to men is trivial in comparison to the risk men pose to women. It’s also irrelevant to the discussion about how women can be safe and respected in society.