My husband says “notallmen”

[Lastchancesalonco]

NC for this! My teenage daughter and I were discussing the current outcry regarding violence against women and women living in fear, my husband entered the room, and immediately said it “wasn’t all men” and now men were “scared to do anything” wtf??? Scared to what exactly? Terrorise women? it’s very relevant I feel that my husband is a police sergeant! And although we do live in a very very low crime area so he doesn’t personally deal with many murders etc it’s mostly petty crime I KNOW he deals with domestic situations and has previously been very vocal about protecting people in domestic situations etc. This is very out of character for him, when pressed he said he felt people were “taking it too far” calling for a “6pm curfew” for men, when my daughter, who I’m ashamed to say was more vociferous than me because I was stunned, pointed out she effectively had an unofficial curfew for safety reasons, he seemed flustered like he hadnt thought of that, then he said “men are scared of attack too” and I said “who from? Who from? Not Denise on her way home pissed from her hen night is it? No it’s MEN you are scared of OTHER MEN” anyway he reflected a bit and was apologetic but I’m worried, he never used to be like this? Is he hearing some extremist narrative at work that poor white middle class men are under attack because the system that gives them every advantage is trying to be dismantled? He works with women and even a transsexual officer and has never shown any sign of prejudice or anything but acceptance for them and up till now never said anything concerning but he literally said “not all men” did we say it was??? I dunno it’s made me a bit sick, and I can’t help but wonder how a man who was previously totally on my wavelength about these things has changed to “but what about me”
Especially when we have a teenage daughter who will be going off to uni soon and won’t be in her safe little village! AIBU to take this so seriously or was he just being a giant selfish man baby and truly sees the error of his ways?

Not all berries are poisonous but some are and you don't know which.

PPCD - yes quite, this ISN'T about the numbers of murders and sexual offences, and all the avoidance of those stats.

The thread is about "not all men".....which is a fact that has NEVER been disputed. What IS in dispute is what all those 'other men' can reasonably expected to do to help reduce the intimidation, threat, and concern that women feel.

Just saying to oneself " but I don't assault anyone!" isn't enough chaps.

What happened was a disgusting and horrific crime and yes we do have problems with violence in our society, and also with how many men in our culture behave towards women and children. But the irrational and badly informed people who are using this as an excuse and a platform for airing their radical "feminist" beliefs are not doing anyone any favours.

Trouble with that my - is that male on female violence isn't just a 'belief', nor simply a radfem position.
It's evidence-based and plain, if you care to look.

Saw this on Instagram: @sypped posted it.

To anyone saying ‘it’s not all men’:
While your argument may seem logical, you are missing the point. While it may not be ALL men, it is ENOUGH men. Enough men to make women feel they cannot dress a certain way. Enough men to make women feel wary about not being able to see their drink. Enough men that make women take the long route home because it’s on a busy road. Enough men to make women need to call someone when they are walking home. Enough men who stand by as their friend won’t leave a woman alone, despite being continually asked to do so. Enough men for women to carry rape alarms. Enough men that means a woman who did all the right things, still ended up in the wrong place. You might not think it’s all men, buts it all men’s responsibility. And if you still think it’s not all men, think back through your past really hard and think of when you didn’t step up but should have.

I loved this, but I’m frustrated that it’s women who have changed their behaviours rather than the men.

LTB. Ridiculous that he gets to have his own opinion..

@Wtfdoipick

Am I wrong to think that the majority of women killed by men in the last year knew their attacker and it wasn't a random street attack?

While it is true that most women killed by men knew their murderer the same isn't true for all the harassment and abuse women receive. Also women have spent a lifetime doing things to protect themselves if they didn't the stats may be very different, we just don't know.

Yes. This.

Women are more likely to be murdered by a male current or former partner than a stranger. But a huge amount of sexual harassment is by a stranger and many women experience both .... which is why we must look at this as one issue. Male violence against women .

Example:
My mum was killed by her partner ( just because she didn't want to be in a relationship with him any more)

I was in an emotionally abusive and sexually coercive relationship for years

But

I have also experienced countless sexual harassment and assault from strangers - at work, in bars, on public transport and just walking down the street.

It's not helpful to try and separate the two. They're part of the same problem.

A small contribution to the debate ... I'm male, and my mother made sure that I was aware of how to avoid women in the streets - never walk behind a lone woman - cross the road or swiftly overtake, never run (can seem aggressive), don't stare, keep your distance ... They all struck me as good common sense polite rules. And this was decades ago, when violence against women was rarely reported unless it was murder.

By the time I was 25 I had been attacked and beaten up (mostly ineptly - this was before knives etc) over 25 times, always by other youths, aged between about 14 and 25, usually in a group of three or more, and always (it appeared) as an act of bravado by one or more of the 'gang' to show the others they were 'hard.' Always when I was alone. I was never robbed.

Although this was a very long time ago, it suggests that there is something in the male psyche which, in a minority of males, demands a violent outlet. For the most part this fades with maturity, but not in everyone. Some vague recognition of this youthful tendency is supposed to have been one of the reasons for boys' schools (mainly independent ones with the facilities) having a strong emphasis on sport - to wear the little buggers out.

I don't condone or excuse any of the violent behaviour - just offer an observation from experience.

But the irrational and badly informed people who are using this as an excuse and a platform for airing their radical "feminist" beliefs are not doing anyone any favours.

Who knew that trying to address male violence against women was irrational and a radical feminist stance 🤷🏼‍♀️🙄

I’m ex wife of a policeman, was a nice guy until he joined up, he turned into an utter twat. He always failed to see the bigger picture of anything if it was outside of his work remit. It was like he completely lost his humanity. I miss the person he was not the person he is now.

pan you didn't read what I wrote.

But in any event, it would still be helpful if you would link all your evidence which is evidence-based and plain so that everyone knows what is being discussed here.

Sorry my I did read your post. The evidence is well documented about male on female violence. I'm not sure it needs to be spelled out now?

I don't see the use of the analogous arguments that just don't make sense if you think about them... the shit covered malteser is a terrible analogy because in that case, the cost benefit clearly doesn't add up! The likelihood of being assaulted is way way way way way less than 10%... otherwise I probably wouldnt ever go out myself. The water is full of sharks so why would you stay in the water? Sharks aren't intertwined in our day to day lives and a necessary part of the actual creation of human life itself. Some berries are poisonous but you don't know which ones? That was doesn't make sense really - lots of people DO know which ones are poisonous because you can look it up! Unfortunately you can't refer to the internet or a... berry book(?!)... to find out which men are poisonous....

Same with women talking about their experiences with male violence. Let them talk about it

I don't think it's that they don't want to let women talk, the problem is that they are being flagged as the aggressors.

Men may feel compelled to say 'not all men' because it's them who are on the other side of the equation.

Same with all the other slogans.

Not all men feel compelled to say 'not all men', because they are comfortable enough in themselves, aware enough of too many women's reality, to be able to engage about this issue without personalising it and seeking to portray themselves as the victim.

He has a point not all men attack women. Women can be attacked by other women. Also when he says men are afraid to do stuff it's to do with going out down the street in case they get accused of being on the prowel when they are probably going to work or returning from work or collecting children from school. Not all men are bad and not all men are gonna attack you. You are being unreasonable

@mbosnz

Not all men feel compelled to say 'not all men', because they are comfortable enough in themselves, aware enough of too many women's reality, to be able to engage about this issue without personalising it and seeking to portray themselves as the victim.

That, or they don't care enough.

I fail to understand how saying "men" are the issue is any different to singling someone out for race, gender identity, sexuality etc. This would never be acceptable in todays society and rightly so. People are individuals, cannot just be lumped in together. It may be disturbing to not be able to categorise as it means unpredictability but this is no different to racism or other forms of intolerance in my opinion. And I'm speaking as a white middle aged woman who has encountered nasty men and women as well as kind respectful people of either sex. Our sex has nothing at all to do with it

A small contribution to the debate ... I'm male, and my mother made sure that I was aware of how to avoid women in the streets - never walk behind a lone woman - cross the road or swiftly overtake, never run (can seem aggressive), don't stare, keep your distance ... They all struck me as good common sense polite rules. And this was decades ago, when violence against women was rarely reported unless it was murder.

Good on her, and you.

Honestly, to the people saying "how would you feel if you had a son" - the worst experiences of sexual assault I experienced were from young men in their late teens and early twenties. If I had a son I would be perfectly happy for him to know how serious this is, and that he should under no circumstances be a part of the archaic culture that has normalized treating women this way.

Are there violent hate crimes being committed against men as a result of this? No, the most they are at risk of is being avoided. If I had a son, I would expect him to not be so self absorbed that he would be offended if he saw a woman crossing the street to get away from him, which is the worst that could come out of this for a genuinely decent man.

I think a lot of the people defending men and seeing themselves as the anti-hysterical woman are totally missing the point.
It’s not all men no. But 2 very simple points.

1. 99% of women behave in a protective way (keys in hand etc) because 90% of woman have been assaulted in some way by a man. And women do not know which men will behave well and which won’t.

1. Those men that are in the wrong. Range from sexist joke to rapist. But they were all surrounded by people from a young age laughing at sexist jokes, accepting misogyny, sharing crude dehumanising “funny” sexual photos. We’ve allowed boys to be surrounded by offensive shit. Most men ignore it but don’t stand up and say it’s wrong. A few act on it. A few stand up and say this is wrong.

My husband would never hurt a woman. He asked my why “not all men” was wrong.
I asked him if he found out one of his friends had raped a girl and we looked back over his life. Would we see my husband enabling his friend, allowing him to have sexist, misogynistic opinions. Would he feel he’d ever stood up and told his friend that his opinions and thoughts were wrong ?

Some of the things that need to be addressed are toxic masculinity and lad culture which push men to behave in aggressive ways and act disrespectfully towards women (either in private with ‘the boys’ or directly to women). This sort of behaviour is what spills over into harassment and beyond - addressing it (i.e. men stop it in its tracks) will reduce such things hopefully!

However there will always be maniacs that want to hurt people, attack women and so on. I wonder if it will ever be possible for women to routinely safely be able to walk through an unlit park at night because there may always be that maniac around.

@Cornishbelle

I fail to understand how saying "men" are the issue is any different to singling someone out for race, gender identity, sexuality etc. This would never be acceptable in todays society and rightly so. People are individuals, cannot just be lumped in together. It may be disturbing to not be able to categorise as it means unpredictability but this is no different to racism or other forms of intolerance in my opinion. And I'm speaking as a white middle aged woman who has encountered nasty men and women as well as kind respectful people of either sex. Our sex has nothing at all to do with it

Incompletely agree but have been absolutely slaughtered on these threads for that opinion.

It is far more men than we think I believe...

In my few decades experience, even in middle age, if you're in an unprotected position eg. Swimming alone, or in many other everyday situations, but alone and a bit exposed, it is seconds before you get approached by some man making you feel uncomfortable, harassed or much worse. Especially bad if you're young...

If they're just always seconds away, the proportion in the population is definitely high

Its not all men ..but it is always men .

Ask him when was the last time anyone , male or female , came to the station to report a random assault from a woman ..
Ask your daughter how many times a woman has made lewd and suggestive comments to her ( not saying it would never happen..but hey , not all women eh ? )
Not all men , but it's always men .

Our sex has nothing at all to do with it

When 2 women a week are murdered by their male current or former partner I would say sex has everything to do with it.

When over 90% of women state they have suffered sexual harassment by men I would say sex had everything to do with it.

That doesn't mean we're saying all men and it doesn't mean we don't understand that women can also be violent but male violence against women is a problem which needs to be addressed and shouting 'but women can be violent too' does not help one iota.