My husband says “notallmen”

[Lastchancesalonco]

NC for this! My teenage daughter and I were discussing the current outcry regarding violence against women and women living in fear, my husband entered the room, and immediately said it “wasn’t all men” and now men were “scared to do anything” wtf??? Scared to what exactly? Terrorise women? it’s very relevant I feel that my husband is a police sergeant! And although we do live in a very very low crime area so he doesn’t personally deal with many murders etc it’s mostly petty crime I KNOW he deals with domestic situations and has previously been very vocal about protecting people in domestic situations etc. This is very out of character for him, when pressed he said he felt people were “taking it too far” calling for a “6pm curfew” for men, when my daughter, who I’m ashamed to say was more vociferous than me because I was stunned, pointed out she effectively had an unofficial curfew for safety reasons, he seemed flustered like he hadnt thought of that, then he said “men are scared of attack too” and I said “who from? Who from? Not Denise on her way home pissed from her hen night is it? No it’s MEN you are scared of OTHER MEN” anyway he reflected a bit and was apologetic but I’m worried, he never used to be like this? Is he hearing some extremist narrative at work that poor white middle class men are under attack because the system that gives them every advantage is trying to be dismantled? He works with women and even a transsexual officer and has never shown any sign of prejudice or anything but acceptance for them and up till now never said anything concerning but he literally said “not all men” did we say it was??? I dunno it’s made me a bit sick, and I can’t help but wonder how a man who was previously totally on my wavelength about these things has changed to “but what about me”
Especially when we have a teenage daughter who will be going off to uni soon and won’t be in her safe little village! AIBU to take this so seriously or was he just being a giant selfish man baby and truly sees the error of his ways?

He is right though. Yabu, would you have the same attitude if you had a son instead of a daughter???

@Ihatefish

Jesus Christ, the stupidity of large swathes of the population never ceases to amaze me. I literally know of no woman that feels under curfew. Yes we would get a taxi home, but so would most men I know.

If women keep demonising men like this, do you know what happens, more and more of them will fall out of the category of giving a shit, if the cap fits, wear it. Excluding people leads to rebellion.

Quite frankly, as sick as you felt by “not all men” your DH is probably feeling sick about how his daughter and wife see his gender. I hope he comes to his senses and gets the fuck out such a disrespectful bullying atmosphere.

Let’s have think.most knife crimes are committed by black people. Most U.K. terrorist attacks bu Muslims / yes it’s a tiny tiny percentage but let’s just tar them all with the same brush, because that works so well.

It’s BLM all over, but taken to even more extreme levels. Trying to Shame people into following an agenda. Disgusting, but easy for the stupid and easily led I suppose.

You think the DH is being bullied???

That's the funniest thing I've read on this thread so far.

Not all men but we don't know which men.
That's the easiest way to explain it.

The other one I have used is the Maltesers analogy. If one in 10 Maltesers was a piece of shit covered in chocolate would you still eat Maltesers?

Unfortunately so does my DP. I think white, heterosexual men are, for the first time EVER, feeling vulnerable and victimised, hence the knee jerk ‘not all men’. Very akin to the ‘all lives matter’ brigade. I honestly think they have no clue how privileged they are and walk around completely oblivious to discrimination of any kind. They also don’t want us ruining their little boys club fun of dirty jokes, casual sexism and being able to do what the fuck they like, whenever they like.

Oh to be a man!

Maybe if he spoke to his daughter about her experiences with men and if she had ever felt threatened, he might change his opinion. Maybe of he spoke to the women in his house his they felt about being sexually harassed he might change his opinion. Maybe he should leant some empathy
Being in the police force, that might help.
If his daughter got attacked or raped he would say not all men do it?? Would that still be his opinion?

@linsey2581

He is right though. Yabu, would you have the same attitude if you had a son instead of a daughter???

I cannot eye roll hard enough at this.

• Unfortunately so does my DP. I think white, heterosexual men are, for the first time EVER, feeling vulnerable and victimised, hence the knee jerk ‘not all men’. Very akin to the ‘all lives matter’ brigade. I honestly think they have no clue how privileged they are and walk around completely oblivious to discrimination of any kind. They also don’t want us ruining their little boys club fun of dirty jokes, casual sexism and being able to do what the fuck they like, whenever they like.

Oh to be a man! *

But that's the default for anyone with privilege, isn't it? We simply don't have to think about it.
"We don't make the rules, we just benefit from them. Why should we ask?"

'Not all men' is not useful as a denial of the problem, any more than 'All Lives Matter' is as a denial of racism.

But he didn't say it to deny the problem. He said it because the women in his family were turning on him.

What, specifically, would you like HIM to do about the problem? That would be a much more fruitful discussion than an exchange of slogans.

Well, not all women are murdered, either. Does that mean women as a whole shouldn't be worried about it?

As a woman I agree. It's not all men.

You are both right. I agree with both of you. Calm down. He's entitled to his opinion and not totally agreeing with you does not make him a monster

@exaltedwombat

'Not all men' is not useful as a denial of the problem, any more than 'All Lives Matter' is as a denial of racism.

But he didn't say it to deny the problem. He said it because the women in his family were turning on him.

What, specifically, would you like HIM to do about the problem? That would be a much more fruitful discussion than an exchange of slogans.

But it wasn't an 'exchange of slogans' was it? OP and her daughter were discussing violence against women when her DH came home and immediately contributed 'not all men.'

He wasnt personally under attack, wasn't accused of anything personally, he walked into a discussion about violence by men against women and his immediate reaction was to deflect that discussion by saying something isn't true that nobody has said is true!!

He didn't walk in on them chanting "all men" and say "not all men". That would be an exchange of slogans.

This wasn't that.

@couchparsnip

Not all men but we don't know which men. That's the easiest way to explain it.

The other one I have used is the Maltesers analogy. If one in 10 Maltesers was a piece of shit covered in chocolate would you still eat Maltesers?

Ok -

Most killers of boys in London are black therefore we should suspect all black men?

Most terrorist are muslim so we should suspect all muslims of being terrorists.

Do you see where your logic takes you. We don't know which malteser so we'll suspect all maltesers?

I love your daughters point! I never thought of it like that before- good for her.

Not all men but we don't know which men.
That's the easiest way to explain it.

I think so, too. I’ve been in churches all my life, surrounded by ‘decent’ men. But I’ve lost my trust, after being an SA victim during my childhood and having witnessed victim blaming and cover-ups as an adult.

And there’s also the more subtle misogyny, dressed up to look like theology, justifying the roles of men and women, which leads to women being victim blamed when reporting DA. When my DSis’s ex was exposed for his DA during their marriage, their church was so busy trying to ‘restore’ him through forgiveness that my DSis was shut out and ended up feeling like she was unsupported and ultimately left that church.

So no, it isn’t all men. But too often a blind eye is turned to men’s abuse of women. This is why it still goes on happening.

All lives matter is absurd. Why can't black people talk about their experiences without white people saying what about us?
It's not saying white people don't have other experiences, it's that they don't have the same ones due to their colour of skin
You can have individual support groups without denying other people need support.
Same with women talking about their experiences with male violence. Let them talk about it.
t's not denying men don't experience violence too
Let them talk about it.
But oh no, some poor men don't like the attention that brings
Why don't they? What is so triggering about it?

I really don't see why people don't understand that

YABU. Is your husband violent or s threat to women ? If the answer is no then his point is valid .
I have to say I actually agree with your husband and I have been in a DV relationship do I know full well how much of a twat SOME men can be. However I've also been in relationships where the man was as soft as my cap .
To me, I am no more at risk than my 17 year old son when out alone . ANYBODY is at risk if they come across the wrong person and I don't like the male / female divide that this situation is raising .

@Silenceisgolden20

All lives matter is absurd. Why can't black people talk about their experiences without white people saying what about us? It's not saying white people don't have other experiences, it's that they don't have the same ones due to their colour of skin You can have individual support groups without denying other people need support. Same with women talking about their experiences with male violence. Let them talk about it. t's not denying men don't experience violence too Let them talk about it. But oh no, some poor men don't like the attention that brings Why don't they? What is so triggering about it?

I really don't see why people don't understand that

It is absurd yes. But it isnt stupid. It is actually a very very clever way of changing the conversation in a way which makes anyone who objects look unreasonable (though fortunately most people are wise to this). Same with NAMALT etc.

10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.

I don't get how persuading the already mostly decent men to change their behaviour is going to make women any safer - can someone explain that to me because perhaps I'm just missing the point? Surely if women feel safer on the streets and act accordingly then the already tiny minority of men who actually commit sex crimes and don't give a shit about #metoo etc are just going to have any easier job? There is already a heavy penalty for such crimes. Yeah I agree it's rubbish, and in an ideal world it would be great if it didn't happen. Sure, maybe these resent calls for action will prevent some cat calls or women being groped on the tube (maybe?) but I honestly don't see how it's going to make us all safer.

Maybe I'm wrong - does anyone have any data from other countries showing less cat calling = fewer violent attacks on the streets?
I think teaching our daughters to be afraid and curfew themselves is a bit rubbish.
Am I wrong to think that the majority of women killed by men in the last year knew their attacker and it wasn't a random street attack?

Most killers of boys in London are black therefore we should suspect all black men?

Most terrorist are muslim so we should suspect all muslims of being terrorists.

Do you see where your logic takes you. We don't know which malteser so we'll suspect all maltesers?

Um, what sex are those people? What sex are pretty much all terrorists, whether they are Muslim, right wing, school shooters? What sex are almost all paedophiles, what sex are all rapists, what sex are 98% of all sexual offenders?

Anyway, we already 'suspect' men. It's why male doctors have to have a chaperone when carrying out a medical examination, it's why prisons are single sex, it's why we have single sex changing areas (and data shows that most sexual assaults/hidden camera stuff in public changing areas happen in unisex ones), it's why if you were walking along a dark street at night you would feel more threatened if a man were walking behind you than a woman.

It's ingrained in our society that men as a class are much more of a risk than women, we just don't notice it.

It's not all men. But it's enough men. Enough that women, girls even, learn very early on to alter their behaviour and limit what they do. And enough men look on not realising what women are going through and saying NAMALT.

Am I wrong to think that the majority of women killed by men in the last year knew their attacker and it wasn't a random street attack?

While it is true that most women killed by men knew their murderer the same isn't true for all the harassment and abuse women receive. Also women have spent a lifetime doing things to protect themselves if they didn't the stats may be very different, we just don't know.

@Juliesipadwillcallyouback

Most killers of boys in London are black therefore we should suspect all black men?

Most terrorist are muslim so we should suspect all muslims of being terrorists.

Do you see where your logic takes you. We don't know which malteser so we'll suspect all maltesers?

Um, what sex are those people? What sex are pretty much all terrorists, whether they are Muslim, right wing, school shooters? What sex are almost all paedophiles, what sex are all rapists, what sex are 98% of all sexual offenders?

Anyway, we already 'suspect' men. It's why male doctors have to have a chaperone when carrying out a medical examination, it's why prisons are single sex, it's why we have single sex changing areas (and data shows that most sexual assaults/hidden camera stuff in public changing areas happen in unisex ones), it's why if you were walking along a dark street at night you would feel more threatened if a man were walking behind you than a woman.

It's ingrained in our society that men as a class are much more of a risk than women, we just don't notice it.

Yep. I think that covers it.