My husband says “notallmen”

[Lastchancesalonco]

NC for this! My teenage daughter and I were discussing the current outcry regarding violence against women and women living in fear, my husband entered the room, and immediately said it “wasn’t all men” and now men were “scared to do anything” wtf??? Scared to what exactly? Terrorise women? it’s very relevant I feel that my husband is a police sergeant! And although we do live in a very very low crime area so he doesn’t personally deal with many murders etc it’s mostly petty crime I KNOW he deals with domestic situations and has previously been very vocal about protecting people in domestic situations etc. This is very out of character for him, when pressed he said he felt people were “taking it too far” calling for a “6pm curfew” for men, when my daughter, who I’m ashamed to say was more vociferous than me because I was stunned, pointed out she effectively had an unofficial curfew for safety reasons, he seemed flustered like he hadnt thought of that, then he said “men are scared of attack too” and I said “who from? Who from? Not Denise on her way home pissed from her hen night is it? No it’s MEN you are scared of OTHER MEN” anyway he reflected a bit and was apologetic but I’m worried, he never used to be like this? Is he hearing some extremist narrative at work that poor white middle class men are under attack because the system that gives them every advantage is trying to be dismantled? He works with women and even a transsexual officer and has never shown any sign of prejudice or anything but acceptance for them and up till now never said anything concerning but he literally said “not all men” did we say it was??? I dunno it’s made me a bit sick, and I can’t help but wonder how a man who was previously totally on my wavelength about these things has changed to “but what about me”
Especially when we have a teenage daughter who will be going off to uni soon and won’t be in her safe little village! AIBU to take this so seriously or was he just being a giant selfish man baby and truly sees the error of his ways?

No, this is disturbing.

I wouldn't like society to view my DH, children, father, and male family members through this lens. It's plain wrong. The message is wrong, we must find another way to advocate for women, not like this.

My husband’s a good man. He’s 6ft 5 and has a large build. He has frequently noticed and commented that at night, lone women cross the road to avoid him. And I don’t blame them one bit.

My point is that to you, your husband and your male relatives are harmless. To a woman who doesn’t know them, it’s just another man. He could be a good man, or he could be a man who would like to end your life for no other reason than the fact you’re female. Unfortunately, the latter kind don’t wear t-shirts.

@tangerinelollipop

Ok, let's suppose a good man says 'notallmen' AND models good behaviour on his children/mates/wider society and explicitly points it out when he sees others acting inappropriately.

Would you be satisfied? Or would you expect something else (e.g. them keeping their head down and apologising for acts committed by others)?

How would it work?

I put both feet in my mouth on the last page trying to phrase this and failing.

I do everything I can to be this type of guy and still end up apologising for my gender.

But if you want to change it you are going to have to involve them in the solution.

Many of us are trying to involve through education. The response is often as gut wrenching as it is angering for women.

As an example:

"Did you know that a survey says 97% of females have experienced sexual harassment?"

The response from many, many, many men in our lives has been some or all of the following:

"Not all men are like that / I don't know anyone who has been raped / yeah but that counts stuff like just getting comments in the street / I don't know any men like that / can't say anything nowadays etc"

Can you see that even when simply presenting statistics and factual evidence, much of the time we are responded to in a way that doesn't show a willingness to actually engage, only to debate or minimise?

I hope if I was a man and that statistic was presented to me and I was surprised by it, that instead of those responses I would in fact think fuck that's scary / it's awful so many women are harassed / I need to report creepy dave at work hassling linda in accounts because actually it isn't funny / wow women do feel harassed by men 'complimenting' them in the street, it isn't just innocent / that means most women I know personally have been frightened by harassment by men / I'm going to do some research to see how I can help...

Vegeetas, you really did put both of your feet (and possibly kept going up to your knees in your mouth.

But you listened, you heard, and you acknowledged your mistake and apologised. That sounds to me, that you either are, or are well on your way, to being that kind of guy.

I think a big part, for me, is that I want men to listen, to hear, and to respect, accept and acknowledge, the voices and experiences of women. Which is what you did.

@mbosnz

Vegeetas, you really did put both of your feet (and possibly kept going up to your knees in your mouth.

But you listened, you heard, and you acknowledged your mistake and apologised. That sounds to me, that you either are, or are well on your way, to being that kind of guy.

I think a big part, for me, is that I want men to listen, to hear, and to respect, accept and acknowledge, the voices and experiences of women. Which is what you did.

I have redeemed myself woohoo!!

happy dance

I get that Vegeetas but not enough men get past that feeling of being tarred and onto action to show other men their damaging attitudes and behaviours are not acceptable.

If my DH or DD we're to make a racist joke or comment for example I'd tell them pretty quickly they're acting like dicks and being racist. Too many men ignore similar misogyny which gives a message "whataaaat? It's just banter, having a laugh ".

So to the good men, of which I know there are bucketloads, I ask "What will you to make change happen?"

(Obviously not form vigilante groups as earlier implied )

@TheJerkStore

Men are also on the receiving end of a lot of female violence.

Now this makes me fucking angry. It is not the same.
Are 2 men a week killed by their female partner, no they are not.

And how many of these are battered women who have just reached the end of their tether?

Try focusing on what would actually help, i.e. more police with time to do actual police work catching criminals rather than attempting to demonize half the population and you might actually get somewhere.

////

So it's women's problem to solve? Nah, screw that. Not if men aren't willing to take a few bruised feelings and have a few awkward conversations with their mates too.

I do think being prepared to listen is fundamental.

Listen, hear, accept and acknowledge.

Which isn't being done if a person's (male or female) primary response is 'well, I've never experienced that/ I've never done that/ not all men/ you're just being hysterical, calm down/ women lie/ it's relatively rare/minor/ you shouldn't have been out that late/dressed like that/ at a demonstration/ got in his way.

We are saying this is our experience. Too many of us have these experiences. This is how it impacts us every day in so many ways, all our lives. This needs to change. Be a part of that.

Ancient - I literally said exactly that

Please can someone point me to where anyone is saying all men? Where is this impression being formed from?

@HOkieCOkie

That’s his opinion, he’s allowed one. Maybe he’s felt unsafe at some point in his life. Honestly what a world we live in now where ppl aren’t allowed differing opinions and where men aren’t allowed to feel unsafe! Get over yourself and let your husband have his valid feelings. He may have expressed them in a clunky way and also he thought about what you said and changed his mind a bit.

And people are 'allowed' to say that it's a stupid, privileged, ignorant opinion.

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz

Please can someone point me to where anyone is saying all men? Where is this impression being formed from?

No-one is. But certain men and their apologists can't bear to have their and their peers' essential superiority and goodness doubted. And they certainly don't want to have to do anything about preventing violence to women and girls, because that's haaard, wah, and might get them kicked out of Boys' Club.

Please can someone point me to where anyone is saying all men? Where is this impression being formed from?

No one has said this at all. But what I’ve found is that the decent men I know don’t have to have this confirmed. They know that we’re not talking about them!

Good. It's just I though got I'd missed that clanger

@Mittens030869

*Please can someone point me to where anyone is saying all men? Where is this impression being formed from?*

No one has said this at all. But what I’ve found is that the decent men I know don’t have to have this confirmed. They know that we’re not talking about them!

Can we get an Amen?!

DH said "not all men" which enraged me but as a close friend is actually seeking to escape an physically abusive relationship and I am trying to support her as best I can, I think it brought it home a bit more.

He's also an "all lives matter" spouter which I don't understand especially as he is Jewish so he should understand persecution based on race. I despair sometimes.

No, but the constant, widespread and very vocal anti-male propaganda will take it's toll and will affect perceptions (and we don't even know the full ramifications or where all of this will lead). The approach needs to be more rational, I see it spiralling out of control TBH

I disagree because I don't think people feeling like this is really new, just that men are starting to be more aware of it. And I think this is good, this means it's becoming more important to more people and hopefully that will increase the speed at which things change. Sitting back and feeling bad about it isn't getting anyone anywhere

I think the issue with “not all men” in THIS context is that it’s irrelevant. If your daughter had been saying she can’t imagine ever dating, being in a relationship, getting married, etc. (assuming she’s heterosexual) because men are so dangerous and violent, THEN “not all men” could be a useful direction for conversation. But as the two of you were discussing the general problem of male violence directed at women, “not all men” - as your H's first comment walking in on the discussion - isn’t relevant and can seem like a digression and possibly putting the focus on himself and away from the original topic and minimising it.

That said, Lastchancesalonco, I don't think anyone here can say if your husband's been radicalised or just spoke without thinking and got defensive or what, nor what he really thinks and feels about it after the conversations with you and your daughter. If it's still bothering you, maybe raise it with him again, one on one, and see if he'll open up about what's changed his perceptions? This is someone you care about who's been decent for the most part. Get angry if you need to and let him know you're angry, but don't let it fester.

The comment about men being scared to do anything would confuse and maybe concern me more than the "not all men", which could have been innocent especially if he's not online much and wouldn't have encountered or thought through the whole NAMALT phenomenon before. I'd want to know more about that.

Also, to be fair - the original curfew suggestion was clearly meant as absurdity to spark a conversation and highlight the seriousness of women's situation (there would be no legal way to implement it anyway) BUT I did see one less-than-clued-up MP tweeting that it should be seriously considered, so I can't 100% blame your H for taking it seriously if he did.

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz

Please can someone point me to where anyone is saying all men? Where is this impression being formed from?

I don't think people are saying all men but enough are saying any man.

I don't think people are saying all men but enough are saying any man.

“Any man” in what context?

For me, if I were out walking alone in a quiet place, any man would make we think about whether I was safe or not. I don’t think that every man is an actual risk to me. I just don’t know for sure.

@CirqueDeMorgue

I absolutely believe all men are as capable of VAWG as the next one.

Due to the violence, aggression, harassment and stalking I've experienced (from different men), I am choosing to stay single and not share any part of my home or life with one.

@PurpleDaisies

I don't think people are saying all men but enough are saying any man.

“Any man” in what context?

For me, if I were out walking alone in a quiet place, any man would make we think about whether I was safe or not. I don’t think that every man is an actual risk to me. I just don’t know for sure.

I think its in the semantics 'I don’t think that every man is an actual risk to me.' and 'if I were out walking alone in a quiet place, any man would make we think about whether I was safe or not' I think in this context 'any man' is much the same as 'every man'.

That’s exactly what I’m saying. Every man would make me think about how I would get away if I were attacked. That’s not to say I actually think I would be but I always think it.

What is this curfew that women are under?

I lived in London for over 10 years and walked home alone every evening, regularly after midnight. At weekends I would go out and about across the city

Good for you. Have you noticed though that when women are attacked when out alone at night, they are blamed for it, even in court? Why do you think that is?