My husband says “notallmen”

[Lastchancesalonco]

NC for this! My teenage daughter and I were discussing the current outcry regarding violence against women and women living in fear, my husband entered the room, and immediately said it “wasn’t all men” and now men were “scared to do anything” wtf??? Scared to what exactly? Terrorise women? it’s very relevant I feel that my husband is a police sergeant! And although we do live in a very very low crime area so he doesn’t personally deal with many murders etc it’s mostly petty crime I KNOW he deals with domestic situations and has previously been very vocal about protecting people in domestic situations etc. This is very out of character for him, when pressed he said he felt people were “taking it too far” calling for a “6pm curfew” for men, when my daughter, who I’m ashamed to say was more vociferous than me because I was stunned, pointed out she effectively had an unofficial curfew for safety reasons, he seemed flustered like he hadnt thought of that, then he said “men are scared of attack too” and I said “who from? Who from? Not Denise on her way home pissed from her hen night is it? No it’s MEN you are scared of OTHER MEN” anyway he reflected a bit and was apologetic but I’m worried, he never used to be like this? Is he hearing some extremist narrative at work that poor white middle class men are under attack because the system that gives them every advantage is trying to be dismantled? He works with women and even a transsexual officer and has never shown any sign of prejudice or anything but acceptance for them and up till now never said anything concerning but he literally said “not all men” did we say it was??? I dunno it’s made me a bit sick, and I can’t help but wonder how a man who was previously totally on my wavelength about these things has changed to “but what about me”
Especially when we have a teenage daughter who will be going off to uni soon and won’t be in her safe little village! AIBU to take this so seriously or was he just being a giant selfish man baby and truly sees the error of his ways?

Yes you keep saying that, everybody knows that and nobody is seriously suggesting the curfew. The fact is that men are more focused on jumping to be defensive about the curfew analogy, rather than take the time to realise it was just that rather than a serious suggestion, and (crucially) actually care about the issue of male violence towards women

I keep saying this because I think it’s too often forgotten. Why are we so worried about going out after dark or going an unfamiliar route (I’m not but I understand others are) when the real danger lurks in our homes?

Where is that getting addressed? I’m not seeing it.

How much of the violence we read about here is domestic abuse? Our perceptions of danger are very skewed, I think, towards stranger violence.

Why are we so worried about going out after dark or going an unfamiliar route (I’m not but I understand others are) when the real danger lurks in our homes?

I’ve been mugged at knifepoint walking home. The only danger in my own home is from my own clumsiness.

It isn’t just actually being hurt walking home. It’s the other threatening behaviour like being catcalled, intimidated etc.

But why do you assume 'good' men are somehow bonded to violent male sociopaths by the fact that they share the same bodily anatomy?

I make no claims of 'bonding', I'm identifying the source of the problem i.e. bad behaviour by men, not 'tarring' by women. IF broad reputational damage has been done to men, then those bad and badly-behaved men are the people who did it. Thus those men should be the focus of any and all hurt feelings and outrage, on behalf of other men.

@PurpleDaisies

Why are we so worried about going out after dark or going an unfamiliar route (I’m not but I understand others are) when the real danger lurks in our homes?

I’ve been mugged at knifepoint walking home. The only danger in my own home is from my own clumsiness.

It isn’t just actually being hurt walking home. It’s the other threatening behaviour like being catcalled, intimidated etc.

I as a male have been robbed at knife point twice in a month walking home, chased and assaulted in inner city locations.

There are areas that when I walk I feel on edge, being male does not provide carte blanche to wander around freely without fear or risk.

It'd be interesting to see what a curfew would be like I think. I reckon it'd last about a month and then there'd be a purge

Not saying I want that but it's an interesting concept

he said he felt people were “taking it too far” calling for a “6pm curfew” for men

He's right, this is an utterly ridiculous idea! I don't know how anyone would expect to be taken seriously if they really believed this should happen.

@Chanjer

It'd be interesting to see what a curfew would be like I think. I reckon it'd last about a month and then there'd be a purge

Not saying I want that but it's an interesting concept

How about we alternate days, men allowed out on one day, women on the other. The world would be a much safer place then.

He's right, this is an utterly ridiculous idea! I don't know how anyone would expect to be taken seriously if they really believed this should happen.

No one is seriously calling for it. It's a thought experiment.

What is this curfew that women are under?

I lived in London for over 10 years and walked home alone every evening, regularly after midnight. At weekends I would go out and about across the city.

I now live in the countryside and happily take my dog for a walk in the evenings.

Maybe tell him to stop being so defensive and think about his past, think about things he’s said and done, or witnessed and done nothing about. If he’s been in the police a long time I guarantee he has seen and heard misogyny - what’s he done about it?

Not all men go out raping and murdering women. But even my DH, who is by all standards a pretty decent human being, has reflected on his life and thought of a long list of situations where his actions have been part of the problem. Some men seem very resistant to this.

For example, I can reflect on my life and see times where I have benefitted from white privilege or where I should have spoken out against things said in front of me but didn’t, as well as times when I have.

This defensive knee jerk reaction just maintains the status quo.

I as a male have been robbed at knife point twice in a month walking home, chased and assaulted in inner city locations.

There are areas that when I walk I feel on edge, being male does not provide carte blanche to wander around freely without fear or risk

You’re telling me this why? Where have I said men don’t feel worried walking home?

The majority of men do not feel the need to behave in the same way as the majority women in order to feel safe(r) waking home.

@lottiegarbanzo
I make no claims of 'bonding', I'm identifying the source of the problem i.e. bad behaviour by men, not 'tarring' by women. IF broad reputational damage has been done to men, then those bad and badly-behaved men are the people who did it. Thus those men should be the focus of any and all hurt feelings and outrage, on behalf of other men.

But you're arguing in circles here - "if broad reputational damage has been done...". It hasn't - except in the minds of a very small segment of the population. And of course when people make sweeping judgements (or "reputational damage" as you call it) about other demographics in society such as, say, race or nationality, we have some rather strong words for them. Sociopathic males are a real danger to women, and (to a slightly lesser extent) other men. They are the problem. Getting other men to "speak up" won't solve the problem any more than Obama or middle class black people tut-tutting will get violent black youths to put down their knives. These sociopathic males are the produce of deep tooted social problems. "Nice Men" can't just "sort it out" on your behalf.

*deep rooted

@Christmasjoy

He is right though, it's not all men. I hate that we cannot say this because the simple fact is that it is not all men.

Women do not have an unspoken curfew. All people out at night have to be more careful, all people at night should be looking after there safety. Yes there ate bad apples but actually a recent spate of muggings in my area have been done by a group of women but no we must not speak about that.

As a woman I find it so depressing to read how we have become this stereotypical hysterical women. Yes we have to be careful, yes there are dangers out there but to make our young women scared of all men is insane.

I blame a year of lockdowns, nothing else to focus on and no social norms for a year.

Agree with this 100%.

You're deluded if you think that all the male behaviour that makes women unsafe and that makes women feel unsafe is carried out by a tiny and distinct group of sociopathic men.

I wish they could, but they can't. The whole society needs to change - better families, better communities, better politicians and better schools. It takes generations and requires men and women voting the right people into positions of power, and less social inequality and deprivation.Things we in the UK are pretty bad at.

There are areas that when I walk I feel on edge, being male does not provide carte blanche to wander around freely without fear or risk.

Of course it doesn't. But it means the risk is lesser.

Which is why whataboutery on this topic is so damaging, even if not your intention.

There are areas where you as a man feel on edge.

A woman would feel on edge in those areas too.

And many, many, many more areas where you would feel comfortable.

Like walking down a high street in broad daylight and knowing you're likely to at some point have a man make a comment about your appearance that makes you uncomfortable and / or vulnerable.

Or walking home from work in well lit streets and still knowing that at least every month or so, a man shouting something at you out of a car, or pulling along next to you in a car trying to engage you in chat while you decide weight up whether a 'fuck off' is too risky but also know any engagement, even "no thanks I don't want to talk" is taken as a go ahead for them to continue trying.

You as a man feel scared sometimes, with good reason and sometimes due to previous negative experiences. Nobody is denying that men are scared sometimes, with good reason and sometimes due to previous negative experiences.

Women like me are begging you to understand that we feel scared much more often, with good reason and almost always due to previous negative experiences.

Nobody is taking men's fear away from you or saying it's invalid. They are explaining the unique experience of fear as a female.

Exactly, the whole society needs to change. Good men are part of society, therefore they are in a position to make that change, to be that change, to model that change.

You've just argued yourself into a rather nice circle there!

Worried now...

OH is back from the shops and brought me a pack of maltesers, are they safe to eat.

@Haydugee

What is this curfew that women are under?

I lived in London for over 10 years and walked home alone every evening, regularly after midnight. At weekends I would go out and about across the city.

I now live in the countryside and happily take my dog for a walk in the evenings.

I've lived in London for over twenty years and I absolutely would not go out and about after midnight unless it was in a very busy, central area. I feel uncomfortable enough at the male behaviour on my route home from work that I will take a taxi after 9.30pm. I've lived in areas where I felt more safe (let's say an 11pm 'curfew') but I do not currently live in a particularly nice area (high knife and drugs crime etc).

I've come to the conclusion that while it may be a minority of men that engage physical assault, the vast majority have and will engage in low level harassment or turn a blind eye to others' behaviour. And the ones protesting NAMLT have almost certainly done things that wouldn't stand up to scrutiny.

He’s allowed an opinion, he stated it has listened to you, gets you point and now just move on

When are men going have time to do the grocery shopping if there's a 6pm curfew. It needs to be 7 or 8pm.

@PurpleDaisies

Why are we so worried about going out after dark or going an unfamiliar route (I’m not but I understand others are) when the real danger lurks in our homes?

I’ve been mugged at knifepoint walking home. The only danger in my own home is from my own clumsiness.

It isn’t just actually being hurt walking home. It’s the other threatening behaviour like being catcalled, intimidated etc.

Individual circumstances, of course, vary.

But if we are talking about femicide in the broader society then the danger is in our homes, not on the streets. Stats bear that out.

It’s like being scared of airplanes but blithely hopping into cars.

@UsedUpUsername

Yes you keep saying that, everybody knows that and nobody is seriously suggesting the curfew. The fact is that men are more focused on jumping to be defensive about the curfew analogy, rather than take the time to realise it was just that rather than a serious suggestion, and (crucially) actually care about the issue of male violence towards women

I keep saying this because I think it’s too often forgotten. Why are we so worried about going out after dark or going an unfamiliar route (I’m not but I understand others are) when the real danger lurks in our homes?

Where is that getting addressed? I’m not seeing it.

How much of the violence we read about here is domestic abuse? Our perceptions of danger are very skewed, I think, towards stranger violence.

Because by focusing entirely on the curfew idea, you are the one making it sound like people are only focused on stranger danger.

I am not only focused on that at all. I am focused on the larger societal problem of how men are encouraged/allowed to think about women, the lack of repercussions for sexual harrassment/assault, and how all those things contribute to a society where men end up thinking it's acceptable to be violent to women, sexual or otherwise, and whether they are at home or out of it. It's ALL relevant.

from again, not one poster has suggested that men are free to wander with safe abandon.

What many women are doing is pointing out that a violent attack or assault for us is almost like the apex of a pyramid. There is so much smaller - and by that I mean relatively - stuff we are subject to. Daily. From the year dot.

I've been mugged once at knife point but I've had all sorts of lovely stuff happen too.