My husband says “notallmen”

[Lastchancesalonco]

NC for this! My teenage daughter and I were discussing the current outcry regarding violence against women and women living in fear, my husband entered the room, and immediately said it “wasn’t all men” and now men were “scared to do anything” wtf??? Scared to what exactly? Terrorise women? it’s very relevant I feel that my husband is a police sergeant! And although we do live in a very very low crime area so he doesn’t personally deal with many murders etc it’s mostly petty crime I KNOW he deals with domestic situations and has previously been very vocal about protecting people in domestic situations etc. This is very out of character for him, when pressed he said he felt people were “taking it too far” calling for a “6pm curfew” for men, when my daughter, who I’m ashamed to say was more vociferous than me because I was stunned, pointed out she effectively had an unofficial curfew for safety reasons, he seemed flustered like he hadnt thought of that, then he said “men are scared of attack too” and I said “who from? Who from? Not Denise on her way home pissed from her hen night is it? No it’s MEN you are scared of OTHER MEN” anyway he reflected a bit and was apologetic but I’m worried, he never used to be like this? Is he hearing some extremist narrative at work that poor white middle class men are under attack because the system that gives them every advantage is trying to be dismantled? He works with women and even a transsexual officer and has never shown any sign of prejudice or anything but acceptance for them and up till now never said anything concerning but he literally said “not all men” did we say it was??? I dunno it’s made me a bit sick, and I can’t help but wonder how a man who was previously totally on my wavelength about these things has changed to “but what about me”
Especially when we have a teenage daughter who will be going off to uni soon and won’t be in her safe little village! AIBU to take this so seriously or was he just being a giant selfish man baby and truly sees the error of his ways?

Run

Is that malteaser thing the new cancel the cheque?

I'm white. I believe I've lived my days so far treating everyone fairly and respecting and acknowledging other people haven't had the life I've had due to their skin colour.

I would be sickened to hear I'd acted in a racist way however I 100% accept many others are. This does not offended my feelings or make me feel in the slightest as a white woman I'm under attack personally.

Why do some men feel the need to centre their hurt feelings over the lived reality of the opposite sex?

Lotties post 9.45am 👏 👏

The system in the uk is not stacked against us, sure there is room for improvement and discussion but to say it is stacked against us... Is well.. Hysterical

If the system is "not stacked against us", how do you explain the appallingly low conviction rate of 1.7% for reported rapes? Were the other 98.3% of rapes false allegations?

How do you explain the figures of victims of partner abuse (6.3% women, 2.7% men, so nearly 2.5 times as prevalent) if "the system" does not put women more at risk in their own homes than men?

How many men are trafficked or otherwise forced into sex work? (Imo, someone forced into sex work is being raped every time they have sex with a client, because they are not consenting, they are coerced).

The only area I can think of where men are systematically disadvantaged in matters of violence is the lack of services, including refuge places, for men suffering domestic abuse.

My first experience of sexual assault happened when I was 12 years old. My most recent was when I was 65. I doubt if, at any point, I've gone for more than 5 years without some sort of offence being perpetrated against me by a man, whether it's a frotter on a crowded tube, DV at the hands of my first partner or emotional abuse by my ex-husband.

That's 53 years of being victimised by arseholes and misogynists, simply because I'm in possession of a vagina and 2 x-chromosomes.

And it is systematic, it's because for the vast majority of our history, society and its structures (political, economic, judicial and social) have been created by men, with scant regard for how they affect women. That's the system.

And you're part of the problem, bringing the word "hysterical", which is in itself misogynistic, into a discussion like this. Check the etymology if you don't understand why.

@BashfulClam

I like the malteser analogy: Not all men, but if I gave you a box of Maltese and told you 1 in 10 of them was a nugget of shit dipped in chocolate then you’d be wary of the full box.

Well, you wouldn't just be 'wary,' you'd be binning the whole damn box.

I've had this argument with my boyfriend. He had a very macho, sexist dad so decided to be better than that, so good on him. He used to get quite offended when I pointed out how dangerous the world can feel to women because he's a gentleman.

Of course not all men attack women or we women would have to hide in their homes but the crime figures are shocking, way more men than women commit crimes and it's men who hurt men. Most women have been sexually harassed by men so an alarming amount of men thing abusing women is fine.

No one seems to realise it's not shocking women commit crime because we are people, if women were as bad as men the figures would be 50/50. I hate it when men point out women do bad things too, it's such a silly argument.

Men sometimes seem totally unaware of the fear many women live in and the restrictions we live under.

I believe men and women have toxic beliefs that are frightening to challenge. Men believe they have a right to be dominant, women think they have to work around this. Men like stomping around the world and don't want this to change because it favours them, who would want to give this up? Any threat to the status quo is terrifying, I believe this is why feminists get so much hate.

Women have a problem too, many see toxic beliefs as "common sense". I like to go on coastal walks on my own and it's women friends who try to stop me. I know my lonely walks are a bit of a risk but I can't go through life being ruled by men. We are the first to tutt at cultures who stop women going out without a man but women put similar restrictions on themselves. While we don't campaign for better and live in fear women will lead half lives and men will think their actions are justified.

Just keep explaining you know your husband is one of the good ones but many men aren't good, this doesn't reflect on him, this worked on my boyfriend but it took a while.

Lockdown is sending people loopy, I had to come off Facebook because nice ladies I use to do craft groups with suddenly turned into extremists. We all have too much time on our hands and too few people to tell us to stop being so silly.

My ds actually said to me, I feel like I am a piece of shit because I am male and white

Tell him to pull himself together. He is top of the pile

The 6pm curfew was mooted because when Sarah Everard was missing the police in the area went knocking on doors telling women to stay indoors after dark - effectively imposing a curfew on women. So the suggestion of a curfew on men was a reaction to that, rather than a serious, practical proposal. Boring dickheads who couldn't see past their own privilege were enraged by the very suggestion, although they had apparently been quite comfortable with the idea of the curfew on women.
Not all men, but always a man.
Your DH and his colleagues had better listen to your daughter if they believe in policing by consent.

Perhaps making a big deal out of this 6pm curfew for all men (to the extent that it was raised an discussed in the House of Lords) was not the best idea to get the majority of decent men on our side?

Yes. Absolutely. Women should be meek and mild and not speak up.

Fuck that shit. We should be shouting. A lot. And as for calm down? Nope. Things will be calming up. And they will stay calmed up.

What i really want is some links to places where anyone at all has actually said all men. I've never seen or heard it seriously (in the same way the curfew for men wasn't serious, it was a talking point)

Nobody says that. But bloody hell, talk about VAWG and BANG! out come the broflakes NAMALTing all over the place.
And, yes men are subject to violence, mostly from other men. If you only ever talk about that on conversations about VAWAG then you can fuckety fuck off.

[quote Silenceisgolden20]@christmasjoy
Where have I taken offence? I'm literally replying to you.
Where have you learnt these gaslighting techniques?[/quote]

Omg, that's it I'm out ha ha where did I learn these techniques? ...that's going to make me chuckle all day.

Enjoy your day everyone.

My son came out with the NAMALT claptrap.
Of course NAMLT but how do you know which ones are?

I think in life its really important we have these debates and it helps people verbalise feelings they have and then when they put these feelings into words and expressing them - they sometimes realise they need to challenge these feelings and their own behaviour. Arguing and getting angry is not going to help as it just makes people take sides. Raise important points and let him think about things.

@dontdisturbmenow

I have been using the following analogy to try & explain how women feel Except it's not a comparable analogy. Change one maltese in poi amongst 100, 000 or more, than would you still refuse to eat one, whilst taking some precautions such as smelling it?

That's more comparable.

Those 1 in 100,000 men must be very very very very very busy if they are reasonable for all catcalling, stalking, bum pinching on the street, groping in the club and at office drinks, coming onto colleagues, shoving around in an argument, ‘just having a bit of fun’, assault and rape. It’s so many more of them than that. Statistically it is impossible to be so few men as you think.

YANBU.

No, not ALL men, but ENOUGH men are 'like that'.

The NAMALT people don't often have to come with this water-thin defence of all men, but given Sarah Everad's death they feel compelled to. Whereas it should be a position they have to defend every bloody day.

I'm with your DH. This divisive narrative pitting people against each other purely on the basis of their sex is futile. It is not all men, of course it isn't. And it's not all cops either! I don't really see why it's ok to say that all men should feel collective responsibility for the actions of a total psychopath, but it's not ok (rightly) to blame all Muslims for the actions of a few nutters who happen to be Muslim. Total double standard.
Also not RTFT but the facts are that men face street violence way more than women do - from other men. Women face domestic violence. So they're arguably safer outside than in their own homes, which is a whole lot more depressing.

I'd be saying calm down Fred, nobody thought you were going to attack women until you started protesting so much.

Obviously we know it's not all men, what a useless thing to say. Men making it all about them once again.

All these 'my lovely DS / DH said he felt like a piece of shit' comments, it's an initial kneejerk response, before any thought has occurred. Nothing more.

Once they've thought it through, then, if they are a decent human being, they'll have come up with some ideas about how they can help make things better; for women and for men, by challenging and reducing bad male behaviour.

Anyone whose only response is 'you're making me feel bad' is just another passive aggressive manipulator.

The thing is, if he's more concerned about how this negatively affects men and derails the conversation to focus on that element, then he IS making himself one of the bad one's. He is entitled to his opinion, but if that is what he chooses to think and do then he is marking himself out as part of the problem, because silencing women with whataboutery, and ensuring the conversation is repositioned to focus on the men, is a huge and active part of why men have continued to get away with this behaviour for so long.

From asofa

Really well expressed. imo

Your H is right as per your title - it's not all men and to talk about 6pm curfews for men is just ridiculous . Women do have to be careful and it has always been that way . You look after your safety the same as you would if you were in a foreign country . You avoid dangerous areas . You don't walk alone in the dark . I remember doing self defence classes in the 1970s. What is so new now ?

A good way to get the point across is that post that's being shared saying "men who say Not All Men should be locked in a room full of snakes, not all venomous"

@BehindMyEyes

Your H is right as per your title - it's not all men and to talk about 6pm curfews for men is just ridiculous . Women do have to be careful and it has always been that way . You look after your safety the same as you would if you were in a foreign country . You avoid dangerous areas . You don't walk alone in the dark . I remember doing self defence classes in the 1970s. What is so new now ?

The point is men don't live that way. Just women.

I think in life its really important we have these debates and it helps people verbalise feelings they have and then when they put these feelings into words and expressing them

Debate is always good if it increases understanding

But there's more time spent on this specific NAMALT conversation than there is any suggestion of solution and it's frequently used to derail any conversation about violence against women