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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask if you’ve been harassed, assaulted, abused, or raped or in any way by men?

271 replies

TrialOfStyle · 24/03/2021 20:50

YANBU - you have been (in ways described below or beyond)
YABU - you have not been (in ways described below or beyond)

It’s just a quick show of hands, really, as I know some people are skeptical of the recent polls.

Obviously it’s entirely up to you to define this but harassment I would consider anything from (but not limited to) catcalling, unwanted comments (in virtue of your looks/body/attractiveness (yes, being told to smile) femininity, negative parenting as a mother and not just as a parent, or in some way negative biology of woman), stalking, persistence when you’ve already said no.

Assault - physic or verbal.

Abuse - emotional, physical, mental or sexual

Rape - including (but I consented to x but he did y)

I have had everything from the above (which is why my list includes it, but I certainly have miss r so things. However I’d be interested in the poll to see the responses).

Ps - before it’s ask, I’m clearly not a journalist or someone being toady (go ahead and advance search). I’m just curious to see how to polls align.

OP posts:
notacooldad · 25/03/2021 13:18

Because being catcalled is completely different to sexual assault / rape
Of course it is different.
The thing with being cancelled is men vocally imposing themselves into ' space. You are minding your own business and get cat called, you didn't ask for this attention, you didn't want it but you are supposed to be happy some leary guy deems you worthy enough to harass. Ignore and you get abuse back. The least being that your 'stuck up and who do youthink you are to 'you need a good sorting out!'
Also cat calling may be the least if a womans problems and not comparable to rape but it is the start of boundary pushing for some men.

Fimofriend · 25/03/2021 13:19

I don't think I know a single grown woman it hasn't happened to. For me the harassment started when I was 9.

FuckingFabulous · 25/03/2021 13:20

YANBU

Original poster
TrialOfStyle · 25/03/2021 13:22

@YellowPurple

You would never get a real answer here

Because being catcalled is completely different to sexual assault / rape

So you need separate polls!

They are separate, but they are on a spectrum of misogynist behaviour.

When I was 8, at my childminders house, I was hanging out in the older boys bedroom (he was 12). He told me to take my top off, and even I didn't I'd need to get out.
My first kiss, roughly around the same age, was a local boy who took me in the bushes and kissed me. I wasn't expecting it.
Around 12 is when I first noticed men catcalling, shouting sexual comments or insults at me from their van. That's continued to this day.
When I was 14 in the middle of the day, a much, much older man shouted "great tits, shame about the arse" and it made me feel really disgusted (with myself, not him).
At 15, a stranger came over to hit on my friend - then turned to me and called me a fat, ugly slag.

Those are all 'low level' on the spectrum of abuse I've had, but it was all misogynist and at the time I didn't recognise it for what it was. It's important to include those incidents because if I hadn't been raped, or hit, coerced, etc. I may be sitting here and not considering those were very real issues too.

OP posts:
UnderHisAye · 25/03/2021 13:23

@YellowPurple

You would never get a real answer here

Because being catcalled is completely different to sexual assault / rape

So you need separate polls!

Why would you need separate polls? Of course they're different but every incident adds up to a culture of male behaviour.
cushioncovers · 25/03/2021 13:24

Yes to pretty much all of it, much of it by my ex husband but been have also been touched on the ass, stared at and verbally abused by strangers several times over the year. Been kissed as I shook hands to say thanks by someone who came in to do some work in the house. And had a car pull up by me late at night and try to persuade me to get in the car.

I am average looking and have always been overweight. I Feel it has very little to do with attraction and everything to do with some men enjoying the power trip and intimidation

Shehasadiamondinthesky · 25/03/2021 13:27

All of the above and more including an attempted sacking due to pregnancy which I appealed and won.
I've had a lifetime of it and just as I thought I was at end at 60 years old someone I knew suddenly thought it would be a great idea to show me his penis.
That didn't end well, talk to the judge mate.

Jointhecircus · 25/03/2021 13:27

I have been sexually harassed in so many ways and in so many contexts that I find it hard to believe that any women hasn’t!

Most of these instances, however, happened when I was younger and they have decreased considerably in the last 5 or so years. I am 38.

LucieStar · 25/03/2021 13:28

No, never. Thankfully.

Spillanelle · 25/03/2021 13:28

Yes, mostly as a teenager/early 20s. What’s really sad is that it was just such a commonplace thing for me then to be catcalled, followed or groped that I didn’t even really think much about it. The specific incidents don’t even really stand out in my memories now but I know it was a pretty regular thing.

UnderHisAye · 25/03/2021 13:31

The worst thing about this thread is the number of women at pains to explain that actually they're unattractive so they weren't luring men to them with their looks.

Sad
DiscordandRhyme · 25/03/2021 13:31

Yanbu - I have been most of not all of these things by men.

💐 to all others who have had their personal boundaries violated.

Original poster
TrialOfStyle · 25/03/2021 13:33

@Spillanelle That's pretty much how I feel about most of my later teens and 20s now. Only the ones that were very traumatic or I when I was very young standout now. It would be hard to pinpoint them all.

I also have assumed all women have experienced it, though I do believe you if you say you haven't.

OP posts:
alreadytaken · 25/03/2021 13:40

The call for evidence on violence to women and still appears to be open. www.gov.uk/government/consultations/violence-against-women-and-girls-vawg-call-for-evidence

Tell your stories there if you wish. I wont repeat here what I said there - except that lower level abuse is frequently directed at female children.

lostPEkit · 25/03/2021 14:01

I agree that it’s a spectrum. In any case, some of the most upsetting experiences I’ve had with predatory men were the ones where they didn’t touch me. It stops being “just” name-calling if the guy follows you for an extended period of time in an isolated place and you don’t think you’re going to get out of the situation without being attacked. Or if you have to duck into a corner shop and beg the guy on the till to let you stay half an hour because you don’t want the man who’s been tailing you in his car making suggestive comments to know where you live. Street harassment can be incredibly frightening - it’s not just the old cliche of a worker on a building site wolf-whistling at you as you walk by (not suggesting that that’s ok either, mind you!).

Dryadia · 25/03/2021 14:01

All these thing happened in Germany, while my dad was serving. While at boarding school, flashed by locals on a number of occasions, girls were not allowed out in groups of less than 3 at one school because of harassment we got from local boys/men.

Some tried to break into the boarding house late one night. At this time, the school was about to close down and there was only one boarding house ( all girls and a couple of female teachers) being used in a massive site

Drink spiked by a teacher's son & mates at a sixth form dance, only time in my life I have passed out, he admitted it. ( in Germany beer and fortified wine was legal for over 16 year olds). A number of girls passed out, they were pouring vodka into the beer cans.

Headbutted after turning down a drunk soldier, breaking both of my front teeth.

Got away from someone trying to get me into his car at 20, pure luck, I got away, a few years later a serial killer was arrested in Germany. I recognised the car and him.

Returned to the UK at 21, followed around town by a man while pushing a pram, sat behind me when I tried to get away from him by going into a cafe, he was manhandled out when he was caught mastibating behind me.

Original poster
TrialOfStyle · 25/03/2021 14:44

@alreadytaken

The call for evidence on violence to women and still appears to be open. www.gov.uk/government/consultations/violence-against-women-and-girls-vawg-call-for-evidence

Tell your stories there if you wish. I wont repeat here what I said there - except that lower level abuse is frequently directed at female children.

Thank you for sending this. I will complete now.

I'm wondering about this question: "Which, if any, of the following behaviours do you think are crimes?" which then follow with "Are there any behaviours not listed above that you believe should be considered a crime, that currently are not?"

Does the first question mean things I think should be considered as crimes, or behaviours that ARE, in law, considered crimes? As the follow up question makes me think it is talking about behaviours I think SHOULD be crimes. (Sorry if that doesn't make any sense, but my answers vary depending on that definition).

OP posts:
alreadytaken · 25/03/2021 15:36

I took the first question as being to establish whether I knew the current law and the second as asking what I thought should be crimes. I wrote in something about some currently being crimes only when children were involved.

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 25/03/2021 16:22

@YellowPurple

You would never get a real answer here

Because being catcalled is completely different to sexual assault / rape

So you need separate polls!

Of course they're different. Doesn't mean they are not part of the same problem even if they are at the opposite end of the spectrum. It doesn't mean that it doesn't add up and contributes to women being weary or afraid of men. It doesn't mean that it's not scary or threatening or that it doesn't have an emotional or mental effect on the victims.

Cat calling, street harassment etc all contribute to what you consider "real answers".

warmeduppizza · 25/03/2021 16:34

I have not experienced any of these things, but my DH has.

ancientgran · 25/03/2021 16:41

@ancientgran

Got groped by a dirty old man once. Got terrorised by a local thug for years, she was female so not sure how to count that one.
I forgot, I lived in the vice area of my city so got approached by punters many many times. To be fair if you shook your head and kept walking they left you alone, I suppose with a prostitute on every corner there was no reason to persist with someone who wasn't interested. I'm not sure if it counts, I just saw it as "mistaken identity" rather than something personal to me.
23PissOffAvenueWF · 25/03/2021 17:15

@YellowPurple

You would never get a real answer here

Because being catcalled is completely different to sexual assault / rape

So you need separate polls!

Separate polls will never tell you the extent and range of the problem.

It’s all part of a depressingly wide spectrum, and goes to show that almost all women have experienced some sort of harassment.

MayYouLiveInInterestingTimes · 25/03/2021 17:19

First time I was assaulted in any way (man my dad worked with trapping me and grinding up against me in a swimming pool) I would have been about 8 or maybe 9. It became a regular expectation for me from men.

speakout · 25/03/2021 17:37

I don't want to outline my experiences- but just wanted to add that forced sex - rape- within marriage was legal until 2003.
I was married in 1985.

So legally I have never been raped.

Onlinedilema · 25/03/2021 17:56

It must be a hell of a lot of men who abuse women and girls. It isn't just one per town is it, otherwise that one person would be attacking women every single day of his life. The sheer numbers do not add up for it only to be a tiny percentage of men.
I think about the men who leetched over me as a child. Most of them will be fathers and grandfathers now, instilling their disgusting views, opinions, thoughts and actions onto their own offspring and hence the cycle continues.