Inheritance issues - part 2. AKA: Is FIL being manipulated and ripped off?

[ThornAmongstRoses]

This thread is for those who helped me on my previous thread about my FIL upping sticks, handing his a big chunk off his money over to his daughter to ultimately live in her garden. Sorry but I don’t know how to link to my previous thread.

The update from what happened last night when we confronted FIL with our concerns:

“And it turns out that SIL is 14 weeks pregnant.

Apparently when she and her partner first suggested the Cabin idea 6 months or so ago and FIL declined and said he was happy to buy somewhere so he wouldn’t be under their feet, she told him not to be silly as the arrangement would work out really well for all involved as she and her partner were hoping to have more children in the future but that they wouldn’t be able to unless they had a bigger house anyway. SIL then told him how much it would mean to her and how wonderful it would be for FIL to be around to watch new grandchildren be born and see them grow up, liked he’d been around when DB (my husband) had had his children. FIL then agreed that it would be really nice to be around for early days and from then onwards, and agreed it was something he would happy be to look into.

Anyway, it looks like SIL took that as him being board and to cut a long story short, she told FIL she was pregnant about 3 months ago but told him not to tell anyone as it was such early days (her prerogative so that’s fine). Anyhow, it appears that is why FIL put his house up for sale and sold it quickly so the new house could be bought in time for the baby’s arrival. Bit strange really seeing as the baby generally stays with the parents in their room for a good 6 months or so, but that’s the story FIL gave. Stinks of manipulation to me but FIL is clearly happy with what’s happened and he does seem excited about the idea of being around for the new baby.

We asked him what would become of the Cabin if he passed away and he said that wasn’t his problem (with a smile) and said that SIL and her partner could do whatever they liked with it.

He hasn’t looked into anything legal as he didn’t think it was necessary. We did advise it (and gave examples from this thread as reasons why he should) but he told us we are worrying unnecessarily. So that’s his choice to make.

We asked him about the time scale of him staying here which was slightly awkward but he promised us again he would only be here for a few months. We said that was unlikely and explained why (all the issues raised in this thread) but he said things would be moving along quickly and if there are any delays he would move out and rent somewhere near us until the cabin is built. I asked why he wasn’t going to rent over there to make sure he liked the area, but he said he wanted to spend as much time as he could with us before he moved away.

So yes, he seems to be going into this with an awareness of all the ins and outs and is happy to go along with it all, so that’s that. It’s all his decision and if he doesn’t take legal advice then that too is his choice.

We have told him we won’t be taking the offered £25k but thanked him for his offer. As has been said on this thread, he’s probably going to need a back-up fund.

FIL left about an hour ago and me and DH are off to bed now with a film as we feel drained. I just wanted to update you as I’ve had so much help and advice from you all.”

I had a PM this morning from a poster who had wanted to respond to my post last night but realised the thread was full so answered privately instead.

Anyhow - I just wanted to start a second thread as I’m sure others have lots of further advice based on my FIL’s revelation, and also because I doubt this is the end of the matter.

Me and DH struggled to sleep last night but we see it’s a done deal now and due to the pregnancy we know FIL isn’t going to back out the deal so now it’s a case of trying to get him to protect himself as best as he can.

@ivykaty44

if my parent had been in secret talks about moving near my sibling and deceived me - id feel very hurt and not like we had a close relationship. I doubt id then be able to live in the same house for a few months cramped up, id be a difficult pill to swallow

mostly id be hurt over the secrecy

I get that but it does sound from what the OP has said that he wasn't really serious about it until she mentioned pregnancy and then it became an urgent hunt (at her insistence). She then told him not to tell anyone about the pregnancy which probably but him in an awkward position and didn't know what to do or say to your DH. If anything he sounds like a bit of a victim in all this, the SIS is the driving force and most of the anger and hurt should he directed at her IMO. Not excusing the FIL at all.

I wonder how the OP's DH would have reacted if FIL had been transparent from the start instead of hiding it?

Op, tell your dh to remain calm when he tells FIL that he cannot stay.
He should just simply say that he doesn’t want to get involved in anything that could be a disaster and therefore he thinks that it is better that FIL moves up to Skegness to rent a place to see if he likes the area.He can also encourage FIL to spend time at SIL’s home while he is there.....
Your dh should refrain from being too emotional. We don’t want SIL to use this to her advantage by claiming that your dh is jealous etc

I can't say I blame your dh for not wanting to move his family around to accommodate his df whilst he waits for his new cabin to be built. It seems like sil has made some assumptions in his behalf whilst making all the arrangements. I'd be hurt and upset that all this happened in secret and fil made it look like he'd be buying locally so you'd take him in. Sounds like it's all going to end in tears. Especially if fil doesn't tie it all up legally.

@diddl

I'd forgotten about your FIL letting you think that he was moving near you.

So he downright lied?

Also wanting to stay util stuff is sorted at the other end?

So he's leaving his living situation to be sorted aout by his pregnant daughter who already has y couple of kids?

He really does sound awful.

Exactly I don’t get all the poor “old ‘ FIL posts

This is the crux of the matter really - the apparent deception and the "favouring" one child over the other in the long term - very hurtful.

And then the realisation that ultimately it's the FIL who may lose out long term, and his utter resistance to even exploring legal protection for himself.

It's a horrid, horrid mess all round.

One thing - if you are looking for somewhere to rent you have to show that you have sufficient income to be able to afford the rent. Most, if not all, landlords would not rent to someone who says they will pay the rent out of capital. In view of your FIL's age I assume he may be retiring soon. The usual income requirement is a gross annual income of 30 x monthly rent. Something to bear in mind, especially if he does end up selling his house, being allowed to stay with you for a few months, and then says he will move out and rent somewhere.

I wonder how the OP's DH would have reacted if FIL had been transparent from the start instead of hiding it?

Probably taken the opportunity to point out alternatives such as giving SiL the 90k and buying his own house with the remainder, and keeping a fair will?

Gosh I have just picked up what happened last night this is awful. I totally agree with your dh telling his father he can’t stay.

I wonder how similar he is to your sil. He doesn’t care about your family’s discomfort, the pain he will create on leaving your dcs or the fairness of disinheriting your side of the family. It sounds as if your sil has manipulated him. But he also sounds manipulative. All you can do at this stage is hold your ground.

@MindGrapes

I hope your dh isn't so upset he'll say something he regrets. Maybe best to let things calm down. Your fil shouldn't be feeling that anything you're arguing is down to things being "unfair" between your dh and sil. It should be because of the financial, legal and practical risks he's taking in this mad unnecessary scheme to be near them.

This. You’ve had your say, OP. Give fil time to process it. Don’t contact him any more for a few days and give the seeds of doubt that have been planted time to germinate. Constant contact will inflame the situation. Given the time for it all to calm down, he may well start thinking more sensibly.

The deception is undoubtedly what’s hurting my husband the most and I think that everything else is just an outlet for his anger.

I don't blame your DH. I would say the same thing. The whole situation seems a complete clusterfuck. If FIL wants to go into it with open eyes, that's his choice. But you don't have to get involved. Essentially, you're just being used until the cabin is built and he can be close to the other grandchildren. That's how it reads to me. I'd be so pissed off if I were your husband

We asked him what would become of the Cabin if he passed away and he said that wasn’t his problem (with a smile) and said that SIL and her partner could do whatever they liked with it.

This is awful. Doubt he'll be so blasé if unpleasant BiL pisses off and they have to sell. How did he get from wanting any inheritance to go to his family's education to "I don't care, I'll be dead"?

@worried3012 this has been going on for 6 months without a word to ops dh

regardless of the pregnancy - that did n't need to be mentioned, but you'd think before a week or two was past to mention to your son who you see weekly that your thinking of moving to the coast with your daughter - 6 months is far to long in a close relationship to keep secrets

Your DH is doing the right thing. It's the only way to force it to a head; whilst FIL lives rent-free at your place, SIL can drag her heels about the garden cabin and FIL can keep his head in the sand. Given the level of deception, it's not unreasonable to feel hurt and used.

The rental thing is also a good point to consider, especially as, if I recall correctly, FIL is looking to retire - perhaps he would have a pension sufficient to meet EA requirements?

I've been fortunate enough not to need to look into rent through agencies myself, but friends have told me how strict the criteria can be in any formal agreement. And when I tried to get my DS in his late teens a bedsit from a local LL known for his - ahem - previously flexible terms, he'd gone all corporate and despite my offering to stand as guarantor with a full time salaried job that would have easily covered the rent is the event of disaster, I was categorically told no, without a home-owning guarantor, which I am not.

System is crap, and forces people into the hands of unscrupulous property owners IMO. But that's a whole other side issue, and maybe for a "sensible grown-up" Like the DFIL there are ways round it.

Thank goodness.

Far too easy for your FIL to make his stupid choices sitting comfortably in your office/playroom.

Years of him retired in your home 24/7.

There is no way I would allow that stress and uncertainty to enter my house and children's lives.

He seems to be abandoning his grandchildren that you have very easily, for children he doesn't really know.

All quite bizarre.

It's going to be a shock enough for your children when he supposedly leaves, so better if he doesn't move in and compound it.

OP,
You do realise this stress would consume your family home if he moved in?

I really think YOU need to start thinking about your children, and support your husband in his upset.

Your FIL is thinking completely of himself, you should too.

Your home is NOT a back up plan when he has caused so much upset and refused to be proactive in taking basic protections.

A couple of years of Grandad living with your family with huge prolonged stress with leave their childhood scarred.

I hope he doesn't die or require care in the next few years or I can see that money being clawed back to pay due taxes or care home fees etc. It could be seen as a depreciation in assets.

@Ellpellwood

We asked him what would become of the Cabin if he passed away and he said that wasn’t his problem (with a smile) and said that SIL and her partner could do whatever they liked with it.

This is awful. Doubt he'll be so blasé if unpleasant BiL pisses off and they have to sell. How did he get from wanting any inheritance to go to his family's education to "I don't care, I'll be dead"?

Well it just goes to the whole pattern of leaving others to sort everything out, doesn't it?

Just merrily turning up when the work is done.

"Far too easy for your FIL to make his stupid choices sitting comfortably in your office/playroom."

Yup.

A few months of renting in Skeggy & he might decide that he doesn't like it or that he could have bought & settled into his own place!

If father in law is 65 and in relatively good health there are no care implications. I do wish people would stop spouting that. Different obviously if he has already had a stroke and needs help getting dressed. It often makes perfect sense for elderly parents to pool resources with their children and frankly should be encouraged as opposed to lining the pockets of private care homes who charge a fortune whilst paying minimum wage and often being understaffed. Much less social isolation which leads to lots of physical issues.

Dil sounds awful though and fil really should protect his cash asset.

Has he no friends or family where he is/was Op?

Much as my Dad loved us both, he had a life of his own to lead & tbh couldn't have chosen between us.

How far apart is everyone atm?

I can understand your husbands hurt but I think that really will just alienate his father further
So my understanding is this is all on the basis of sister-in-law getting a promotion to be able to afford a bigger house with space to build a cabin in the back garden there is no guarantee of this promotion now she’s pregnant is it still going to happen? (Of course it should but unscrupulous employers and all that)
How will she get an increased mortgage if she has to declare impending maternity pay as a change of circumstances

She really does have it all doesn’t she on-site childcare, bigger house and an extra expensive second dwelling on her property that increases value for her

Your poor fil

I would let your husband say what he needs to say to FIL. That way if it all goes wrong later which it sounds like it may, he'll know he did all he could to try and protect him.

If SIL has not bought the house yet, there is no way the cabin will be ready soon. Firstly with an extra 90k I would be surprised if they could afford a house with a big enough garden. Secondly a cabin with 2 bedrooms would need planning permission. It will take ages to be built.

If SIL just wanted her dad nearby, she could just have him buy a house near to her. She clearly just wants the 90k. I fear your FIL is in for a rude awakening if he doesn't see sense.

It doesn't make sense to me, however putting myself in his shoes, it may that maybe he feels that his relationship with his DD was never as close as with his DS, so maybe he feels this is an opportunity to redress the balance?

Taking the money side out of the equation, it would make sense for him to want to spend time with his DD, and am sure the OP wouldn't find this a problem, but when all of his money is going toward a property project, then it does sound as if there is undue influence.

It's a shame that his DD is clearly manipulating him and that he can't see it, for whatever reason.

We asked him what would become of the Cabin if he passed away and he said that wasn’t his problem (with a smile) and said that SIL and her partner could do whatever they liked with it.

Your FIL probably thinks you are more interested in your inheritance than in his welfare.