Inheritance issues - part 2. AKA: Is FIL being manipulated and ripped off?

[ThornAmongstRoses]

This thread is for those who helped me on my previous thread about my FIL upping sticks, handing his a big chunk off his money over to his daughter to ultimately live in her garden. Sorry but I don’t know how to link to my previous thread.

The update from what happened last night when we confronted FIL with our concerns:

“And it turns out that SIL is 14 weeks pregnant.

Apparently when she and her partner first suggested the Cabin idea 6 months or so ago and FIL declined and said he was happy to buy somewhere so he wouldn’t be under their feet, she told him not to be silly as the arrangement would work out really well for all involved as she and her partner were hoping to have more children in the future but that they wouldn’t be able to unless they had a bigger house anyway. SIL then told him how much it would mean to her and how wonderful it would be for FIL to be around to watch new grandchildren be born and see them grow up, liked he’d been around when DB (my husband) had had his children. FIL then agreed that it would be really nice to be around for early days and from then onwards, and agreed it was something he would happy be to look into.

Anyway, it looks like SIL took that as him being board and to cut a long story short, she told FIL she was pregnant about 3 months ago but told him not to tell anyone as it was such early days (her prerogative so that’s fine). Anyhow, it appears that is why FIL put his house up for sale and sold it quickly so the new house could be bought in time for the baby’s arrival. Bit strange really seeing as the baby generally stays with the parents in their room for a good 6 months or so, but that’s the story FIL gave. Stinks of manipulation to me but FIL is clearly happy with what’s happened and he does seem excited about the idea of being around for the new baby.

We asked him what would become of the Cabin if he passed away and he said that wasn’t his problem (with a smile) and said that SIL and her partner could do whatever they liked with it.

He hasn’t looked into anything legal as he didn’t think it was necessary. We did advise it (and gave examples from this thread as reasons why he should) but he told us we are worrying unnecessarily. So that’s his choice to make.

We asked him about the time scale of him staying here which was slightly awkward but he promised us again he would only be here for a few months. We said that was unlikely and explained why (all the issues raised in this thread) but he said things would be moving along quickly and if there are any delays he would move out and rent somewhere near us until the cabin is built. I asked why he wasn’t going to rent over there to make sure he liked the area, but he said he wanted to spend as much time as he could with us before he moved away.

So yes, he seems to be going into this with an awareness of all the ins and outs and is happy to go along with it all, so that’s that. It’s all his decision and if he doesn’t take legal advice then that too is his choice.

We have told him we won’t be taking the offered £25k but thanked him for his offer. As has been said on this thread, he’s probably going to need a back-up fund.

FIL left about an hour ago and me and DH are off to bed now with a film as we feel drained. I just wanted to update you as I’ve had so much help and advice from you all.”

I had a PM this morning from a poster who had wanted to respond to my post last night but realised the thread was full so answered privately instead.

Anyhow - I just wanted to start a second thread as I’m sure others have lots of further advice based on my FIL’s revelation, and also because I doubt this is the end of the matter.

Me and DH struggled to sleep last night but we see it’s a done deal now and due to the pregnancy we know FIL isn’t going to back out the deal so now it’s a case of trying to get him to protect himself as best as he can.

DH has just phoned me to tell me he’s going to tell FIL that he can’t stay here. DH has said that his father obviously didn’t want us involved in this whole sham (DH’s words) and therefore we are going to be uninvolved, including putting him up

Oh hell, I cross psoted with you ... thank god for that!!!
It really is the only sensible thing to do, and hopefully it just might squash the whole ridiculous idea

BTW I also ike the way he hung it on "not being involved", which was spot on. As said, he's perfectly entitled to make his own decisions, but not to expect others to pick up the pieces, which is very obviously what you'd have been expected to do ... and probably for a very long time

I'm with your DH.

Also as an aside does the FIL see the irony of basically giving all his money to his DIL to buy herself a bigger house (which he is not invited to live in) and then overcrowding you for what’s likely to be a couple of years while giving you no facility to extend your home. Also with a newborn and preschooler plus another child how much time is the DIL really going to spend sorting out the planning permission/ drainage/ power and builders for the cabin for the next few years? I think your DH is right to wash his hands of it if he can try to do it without becoming estranged from his dad it would be so much better, because he has only lost his mum 4 years ago, and this is all so unnecessarily upsetting because of the DIL behaviour. It could have been a lovely thing for both families your FIL moving to the seaside big family holidays all together etc now it’s this horrible mess.

@ThornAmongstRoses

Thank you everyone. DH has just phoned me to tell me he’s going to tell FIL that he can’t stay here. DH has said that his father obviously didn’t want us involved in this whole sham (DH’s words) and therefore we are going to be uninvolved, including putting him up.

He was really irate on the phone and I don’t know if he said what he did about FIL because he’s being stubborn or if he’s just angry.

We didn’t have time to go into it all (on lunch breaks) but I will talk to him about it later. I really don’t want all this to implode

I think emotions are running very high here, it will be so hard for things NOT to implode. A certain amount of anger on your husband's part is not only understandable but maybe necessary to ensure you all don't get to be the ones suffering because of this plan. I would, as others have suggested, put all of your concerns in writing, focusing on the FILs needs mainly (if only through gritted teeth). Try and keep emotion and hurt out of it as much as possible. I would also, like others, wonder if there's another trusted individual who might have a word, a sibling, an old friend or neighbour. Just to ensure he is looking at the full picture. Does he not have friends, hobbies, routines etc that he will miss, altogether apart from you guys? Could that not be part of the discussion too in terms of suggestions that he maybe buy a wee house where you are and a static caravan in Skegness. He seems determined to leave an awful lot behind for a garden shed in a seaside town with a daughter with whom he has a minimal enough relationship and whose partner dislikes him.

I hope your dh isn't so upset he'll say something he regrets. Maybe best to let things calm down. Your fil shouldn't be feeling that anything you're arguing is down to things being "unfair" between your dh and sil.
It should be because of the financial, legal and practical risks he's taking in this mad unnecessary scheme to be near them.

DH has just phoned me to tell me he’s going to tell FIL that he can’t stay here. DH has said that his father obviously didn’t want us involved in this whole sham (DH’s words) and therefore we are going to be uninvolved, including putting him up

Sounds sensible - and as for imploding possibly better and less framatic when there are more options left on table than when FIL has been under your roof for months and months with everyone more and more resentful.

Sad as the whole situation is I think your husband is making the right call. The reason he’s giving is in-step with their narrative so hard for them to challenge.

What a shit show they’ve started.

That's good that your DH is telling FIL he can't stay with you, as it would likely be for years.

Hopefully that will push him into either cancelling his house sale, or buying a small place of his own, or renting in Skeggy which would give him chance to see if he likes it. All of these seem better options than staying at yours for years on end while handing over all his assets.

If he wanted to downsize and use some of the money to help SIL out with a bigger house I think that's totally fine. Just as long as he's not tying himself in to a) living with you for years and b) having no assets other than a cabin on someone else's property.

I just read your lunch time update @ThornAmongstRoses and it made me want to cry that your DH does seem to realise the reality of his dads choice but he is putting himself and his family first and he needs commending for that.

It's really bizarre that it has got to the point of house sale and you agreeing to host your FIL that you have found out where he plans to move to.

You see him regularly, surely when he put the house on the market you talked about where we would relocate to, what type of house might suit his needs, whether we was downsizing etc. Most people would have been looking on rightmove for him.

But you said:
We said yes to him staying when he lead us to believe that he was looking for a house in the same town we lived in and that it would just be a stop-gap between selling his house and looking for one that he liked in the area

Once he put the house on the market/sold didn't you then talk to him about buying something directly - most people want to directly move rather than camp out with relatives. Didn't it seem strange he wasn't viewing houses?

This is so sad isn't it, I can't help feeling your DH and his Dad's relationship will never recover from this. One is too stubborn to see sense and the other too hurt and angry.

I suppose you could print off these threads and put them through his letterbox , along with all the rightmove links. Nothing to lose now, except your username.

Sorry, dad, we don't have the space to house you for months nor do we have the funds to buy a bigger house.

@Perching www.norwegianlog.co.uk/log-homes/bergen it'll be insulated better than most 1930s semi homes the uk, so will be warm and toasted with little overheads

but op does he realise that he will have to pay council tax on the garden building?

The email or written letter idea is great in principle but these are people who don’t want to be transparent or accountable. The fact is this is not an estate that OP’s DH is managing as the executor, this is the verbal agreement that the FIL has made with his DIL that was kept a secret. The idea that these people are now going to be open and honest about legal questions, financial transactions etc is not realistic, especially as the FIL is not asking those questions himself.

SIL and her OH are going to take his money, buy the house they want, and then say they can't get planning permission. And then say they couldn't possibly pay the money back because they'd have to sell the house and lose money and end up homeless.

FIL is going to end up with nothing and nowhere to live.

I'd make it clear he won't be staying with you more than a few months and that he needs to protect himself in writing with his daughter.

@ThornAmongstRoses

Thank you everyone. DH has just phoned me to tell me he’s going to tell FIL that he can’t stay here. DH has said that his father obviously didn’t want us involved in this whole sham (DH’s words) and therefore we are going to be uninvolved, including putting him up.

He was really irate on the phone and I don’t know if he said what he did about FIL because he’s being stubborn or if he’s just angry.

We didn’t have time to go into it all (on lunch breaks) but I will talk to him about it later. I really don’t want all this to implode

In all honesty, I think this is the best option now.

Even if your DH is calling his bluff (doesn't sound like it), then I think it has to be said to get your FIL to properly think about the implications of what he's doing.

He and SIL (and her OH) have basically assumed that you and your DH will just take whatever is thrown at you without question, and roll over while they take this lunatic course of action.

Her being pregnant raises huge concerns about her promotion, her paygrade, being able to get a bigger mortgage, her actually staying in work at all - and it seems to me that once they get that initial £90k, the "cabin money" will have to go to support SIL in her decisions once the new baby is here.

I agree that someone is pulling the wool over someone's eyes here - the only real confusion is who the wool-puller is, or are they all at it and just taking your and your DH for mugs!

Good for your DH. I was going to suggest he said that to his father as a bluff, just to see what happens when FIL (and SIL) realise that you're not such pushovers as they thought!

Your DH is right not to have him stay - I think now you need to talk through the best way of saying that without it imploding.

That it simply isny best for your family to have the disruption of him staying and then going but if he rents nearby you will happily see him

100% your dh is right in not letting him stay.

Fil needs to read up on deprivation of assets

I think fair enough not wanting DFIL to live with you and that's probably the right call, although I feel in DFIL's mind it will further vindicate his decision to move as planned as he will see it as 'well at least my daughter is happy to have me' (even though we know it's not quite accurate)

I do still stand by my point earlier in that I'm still not sure why your DH would be so hurt and angry at DFIL though. Yes he's making a rash decision but he's allowed to make that choice if he wants to live by the sea. He's even allowed to make mistakes. He's not that old and wants to do something different for the rest of his life. Obviously SIL is manipulating him and he doesn't see it yet but he may do in time. I understand that it will affect the inheritance but a) hopefully you're a long way from that and b) £25k is still a massive amount of money. As others have said, no one even knows what his inheritance would be needed for by then anyway and if a good chunk of it may be needed for care fees etc.

I don't think DFIL is trying to hurt your DH and agreed he should have mentioned this plan earlier but aside from that and his stubbornness, I'm not sure it's worth a huge fall out between them. SIL is another story of course.

It's a crap situation, don't get me wrong but not as big a deal as it may seem.

We know someone who did this, and everything was in the FIL's childs name. They kicked him out, luckily a friend had bought his old house and are renting it back to him,
God help your FIL he will not legally have a leg to stand on, and will have no money.
Can he not just buy a small one bed near SIL. so his home is safe.

if my parent had been in secret talks about moving near my sibling and deceived me - id feel very hurt and not like we had a close relationship. I doubt id then be able to live in the same house for a few months cramped up, id be a difficult pill to swallow

mostly id be hurt over the secrecy

There re so many implication with this that its not likely to end well

Apart from anything else what happens if SIL and partner split up and have to sell the house? That would leave FIL homeless or squatting

I'd forgotten about your FIL letting you think that he was moving near you.

So he downright lied?

Also wanting to stay util stuff is sorted at the other end?

So he's leaving his living situation to be sorted aout by his pregnant daughter who already has y couple of kids?

He really does sound awful.

There are SO many tax and implications regarding potential future care needs here.
I just don't know where to start.