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Original poster

Inheritance issues - part 2. AKA: Is FIL being manipulated and ripped off?

999 replies

ThornAmongstRoses · 24/03/2021 06:43

This thread is for those who helped me on my previous thread about my FIL upping sticks, handing his a big chunk off his money over to his daughter to ultimately live in her garden. Sorry but I don’t know how to link to my previous thread.

The update from what happened last night when we confronted FIL with our concerns:

“And it turns out that SIL is 14 weeks pregnant.

Apparently when she and her partner first suggested the Cabin idea 6 months or so ago and FIL declined and said he was happy to buy somewhere so he wouldn’t be under their feet, she told him not to be silly as the arrangement would work out really well for all involved as she and her partner were hoping to have more children in the future but that they wouldn’t be able to unless they had a bigger house anyway. SIL then told him how much it would mean to her and how wonderful it would be for FIL to be around to watch new grandchildren be born and see them grow up, liked he’d been around when DB (my husband) had had his children. FIL then agreed that it would be really nice to be around for early days and from then onwards, and agreed it was something he would happy be to look into.

Anyway, it looks like SIL took that as him being board and to cut a long story short, she told FIL she was pregnant about 3 months ago but told him not to tell anyone as it was such early days (her prerogative so that’s fine). Anyhow, it appears that is why FIL put his house up for sale and sold it quickly so the new house could be bought in time for the baby’s arrival. Bit strange really seeing as the baby generally stays with the parents in their room for a good 6 months or so, but that’s the story FIL gave. Stinks of manipulation to me but FIL is clearly happy with what’s happened and he does seem excited about the idea of being around for the new baby.

We asked him what would become of the Cabin if he passed away and he said that wasn’t his problem (with a smile) and said that SIL and her partner could do whatever they liked with it.

He hasn’t looked into anything legal as he didn’t think it was necessary. We did advise it (and gave examples from this thread as reasons why he should) but he told us we are worrying unnecessarily. So that’s his choice to make.

We asked him about the time scale of him staying here which was slightly awkward but he promised us again he would only be here for a few months. We said that was unlikely and explained why (all the issues raised in this thread) but he said things would be moving along quickly and if there are any delays he would move out and rent somewhere near us until the cabin is built. I asked why he wasn’t going to rent over there to make sure he liked the area, but he said he wanted to spend as much time as he could with us before he moved away.

So yes, he seems to be going into this with an awareness of all the ins and outs and is happy to go along with it all, so that’s that. It’s all his decision and if he doesn’t take legal advice then that too is his choice.

We have told him we won’t be taking the offered £25k but thanked him for his offer. As has been said on this thread, he’s probably going to need a back-up fund.

FIL left about an hour ago and me and DH are off to bed now with a film as we feel drained. I just wanted to update you as I’ve had so much help and advice from you all.”

I had a PM this morning from a poster who had wanted to respond to my post last night but realised the thread was full so answered privately instead.

Anyhow - I just wanted to start a second thread as I’m sure others have lots of further advice based on my FIL’s revelation, and also because I doubt this is the end of the matter.

Me and DH struggled to sleep last night but we see it’s a done deal now and due to the pregnancy we know FIL isn’t going to back out the deal so now it’s a case of trying to get him to protect himself as best as he can.

OP posts:
frumpety · 26/03/2021 21:51

She won't be liable for inheritance tax on 90k though will she ? so its a tax free lump sum if no other taxes are liable ?

frumpety · 26/03/2021 21:55

@GreenMeeple thank you.

However if he doesn't buy a new house himself with the money from his house sale he might need to pay a hefty sum of capital gains tax. Depending on when he bought the house and at what price. If he is trying to avoid paying tax he would be much better off buying a new place of his own.

There is your 'in' @ThornAmongstRoses, if he doesn't buy actual bricks and mortar he might need to pay loads of tax on the proceeds from his house sale. Best he gets some basic legal advice to avoid losing money.

Svalberg · 26/03/2021 22:03

[quote frumpety]@GreenMeeple thank you.

However if he doesn't buy a new house himself with the money from his house sale he might need to pay a hefty sum of capital gains tax. Depending on when he bought the house and at what price. If he is trying to avoid paying tax he would be much better off buying a new place of his own.

There is your 'in' @ThornAmongstRoses, if he doesn't buy actual bricks and mortar he might need to pay loads of tax on the proceeds from his house sale. Best he gets some basic legal advice to avoid losing money.[/quote]
CGT is not payable if you sell your primary residence, whether you buy another residence or not.

Noshowlomo · 26/03/2021 22:04

Sounds like FIL is driven by some sort of guilt towards SIL.. and she’s using it to her advantage. What a situation!

GreenMeeple · 26/03/2021 22:22

I just had a read to make sure and I think he should be okay as long as the house was his main home most of the time. But I would say a chat with an accountant would still be advised just to make sure.

Mrgrinch · 26/03/2021 22:45

OP I just want to make something extremely clear- you most definitely 1000000% need planning permission for the lodge.

I'm a gypsy and I know near enough everything there is to know about this type of home. He will also need to spend a considerable amount creating an appropriate base to put it on.

There are also more costs such as delivery and set up (approx £2k) and gas and electricity. Does he know how to use, attach and change gas bottles? If he doesn't then that's a serious problem as majority of these run from bottles and not mains.

God there are so many things, but most importantly you need planning permission and it is NOT easy to get.

Medievalist · 26/03/2021 23:49

Could you perhaps make it a condition of him moving in for 3 months that he gets some legal advice on his proposals? You could say that he's asking a lot from you and dh - to accept a much reduced level of contact when he moves away, to accommodate him in the interim and - potentially - to bail him out at some point in the future if his plans don't work out and he has no money left. It's only fair that he gives you some peace of mind in return.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 27/03/2021 00:25

@ThornAmongstRoses - I really think you SHOULD go and see a solicitor on your OWN behalf - yours and your DH's.

Of course, if you haven't the money spare for that, I can understand why you wouldn't though. Maybe Citizens' Advice Bureau (does it still exist??)

I agree with others that it's going to be much harder to throw him out after 3m if he claims poverty or misery - easier to stand your ground now. AND fairer on your kids not to go from 100% grandpa to 0% grandpa BY CHOICE (of course it happens for some people when their relative dies, but that's a different story and is handled differently).

Your DH needs to find his grit and determination again and say "Sorry, changed our minds, it's not going to work for us, you using us as a doss house while sis gets everything else" - because, in effect, that IS what is going to happen. I KNOW he offered you the £25k up front - maybe that was meant to "keep you sweet" - so maybe you should change your minds about that too IF you decide to house him instead. Unless you plan on making him contribute to bills? All your bills will go up, especially food and water.

You probably feel like we're haranguing you over this but we are only concerned that you're being taken for mugs by your FIL and will be in a much worse position in 3m time. Thanks

AnotherKrampus · 27/03/2021 00:44

You are not morally obliged to keep your word because your FIL lied when the offer was made. He is thoroughly taking the piss. He can rent somewhere short term or use a longer-term AirB&B. Actions have consequences.

callmeadoctor · 27/03/2021 00:51

Lets all come back here in 3 months time, when FIL has nowhere to go and DH can't throw him out............................................................................

Furries · 27/03/2021 02:47

@billy1966

Everyone is saying the same thing OP, it will be hell.

Your FIL doesn't care that he is putting you out.
He's shown you exactly how little he cares.

I think YOU really really need to sink into how difficult all this is going to be for you.

I can't see you and your husband having the backbone to ask him to leave.

If you did I have no doubt you will be cast as the baddies, despite all you have done.

You would be far wiser to box clever now and to say "upon mature reflection we think it's better for you to rent to protect the relationship".

You OP as the woman of the house is going to take the total hit for this.

The annoyance will affect your study.
You will feel so imposed upon in your home.
You will feel your only space in your home is your bedroom.
All the while dancing around this selfish man.
There will be NO escaping the annoyance of his plans and the knowledge that he is a liar who isn't telling ye the full story.
All the while he is plonked in your tiny house, saving money, to hand over to your SIL.

I can't believe you are doing it.
I would put money on the fact that he will be in no rush to go anywhere, SIL will have her money and not be in any rush.

But ye will be packed in like sardines, stressed and angry and your poor children in the midst of it all.

I have had several friends have parents that they adore stay for a month a couple of times in spacious houses and it was hard for them.

People love their privacy.
Having ANYONE to stay is hard, even if you love them.
Family's need their privacy.

Flowers

This!
skinoncustard · 27/03/2021 03:01

You are actually aiding the SIL, she is banking on her brother and you being “soft”
She knows you won’t say no , and when it all goes to pot you won’t see him homeless.

She and her partner are ruthless, don’t let them play you like a fiddle too.

FourDecades · 27/03/2021 06:59

@ThornAmongstRoses

You've mentioned this many times - so I wonder how your DH feels about his wife being (rightly) very worried, and why he's prioritising FIL's possibly injured feelings over yours?

I know he would do the exact same thing for me if the tables were flipped and it was one of my parents who needed putting up. It’s so difficult when it comes to parents because it’s only natural to not want to hurt them.

My DH knows I’m not overjoyed about the situation but I will put up with it for his sake, just as he would do for my sake.

I’ve told him though that if any point our marriage or children are negatively affected then he will have to tell FIL to leave.

Your marriage is already being affected by the decision your DH made, as you are dreading FIL moving in.

Your children are already being affected by the tension in your home and the fact they will loose living space.

MyOtherProfile · 27/03/2021 07:00

@ApricotCrush

Hang on a minute. Your DH's father has virtually disinherited him, is selling his house and giving most of the proceeds to your SIL in a deal which could leave him destitute and homeless in the future, if it even works out, he will not take any advice from you, and yet wants you to home him free of charge for at least three months maybe indefinitely at great inconvenience to you, and you are allowing this? Confused
This is a perfect summary and is really tragic. @ThornAmongstRoses I think you need to put this in a letter and give it to FIL so he can see in black and white what he is doing. And then say that on reflection you can't give him a home for 3 months as it will be too disruptive for your family given the contents of the letter.

Please OP, for the sake of your your DH, your children and your FIL, put this in black and white and tell him you are not going to aid and abet this madness.

FourDecades · 27/03/2021 07:14

Basically OP, you and DH are enabling this situation by allowing him to move in.

GenderApostate19 · 27/03/2021 08:07

Odd that OP hasn’t nentioned her FiL’s social life?
Surely he has long established friendships that he will be giving up and why hasn’t at least one person told him it’s a really, REALLY stupid idea, for all the reasons mentioned in this ginormous thread?

frumpety · 27/03/2021 08:08

Has FIL actually retired ? If not could you persuade him to postpone it until the cabin is being built ? That way if you are set on him moving in , you might still get the odd slobby day still ?

NeilBuchananisBanksy · 27/03/2021 08:17

@skinoncustard

You are actually aiding the SIL, she is banking on her brother and you being “soft” She knows you won’t say no , and when it all goes to pot you won’t see him homeless.

She and her partner are ruthless, don’t let them play you like a fiddle too.

This!

I'd at least make him staying with you for 3 months conditional on him getting legal advice.

I can see why you are having him to stay though. At least you can then keep a close eye on him and keep pointing all the issues out.

Saying no is the nuclear option and could play into the sisters hands even more.

Play the game op, just like the sister has. Don't let this lie.

GenderApostate19 · 27/03/2021 08:17

OP hasn’t given any real information about him (cynical, moi?).

NoSquirrels · 27/03/2021 08:31

@GenderApostate19

OP hasn’t given any real information about him (cynical, moi?).
Maybe because she doesn’t feel it’s her place to go broadcasting another person’s life on the internet down to the smallest detail?

Plus on the original thread OP did talk about his social life as I recall.

The thread is mostly ginormous with people posting the same advice over and over, not OP’s fault.

Hadalifeonce · 27/03/2021 08:38

If your FiL was elderly, I could understand your take on this better. He is not he is 65, just slightly older than me! He is quite capable of living in rented accommodation on his own, if he is so particular about his home, how will he cope living with people who don't live 'to his level'
I would hate it in the long term.
This has disaster written all over it, and the people who will suffer most, OP, is you and your family.

Replays · 27/03/2021 08:46

What is FIL planning to do with all his belongings and furniture?

No room at OP's.

Hmmm

saraclara · 27/03/2021 09:03

So his belongings are in storage, the three months is up, and it's time to go.But "it's only going to take another few weeks/couple of months now, and it's going to be hard to find a rental for that bit of time and move all my stuff only to have to move it again"

This plan makes no sense. He needs to rent from the off, or it's not going to be worth doing at all. Renting in Skeggy is the obvious thing to do.

mugofwater · 27/03/2021 09:55

Worth considering if it's actually kinder to say no to moving in. It's forces him to face the consequences of his choices now while there may still be time to change the plans.

By allowing a cosy opt out of the consequences for 3 months, you'd be enabling him to continue his delusion of how this will all be just fine.

Alsohuman · 27/03/2021 10:40

@GenderApostate19

Odd that OP hasn’t nentioned her FiL’s social life? Surely he has long established friendships that he will be giving up and why hasn’t at least one person told him it’s a really, REALLY stupid idea, for all the reasons mentioned in this ginormous thread?
I bet he hasn’t told any of his friends. After all he didn’t tell his son ...