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Original poster

Inheritance issues - part 2. AKA: Is FIL being manipulated and ripped off?

999 replies

ThornAmongstRoses · 24/03/2021 06:43

This thread is for those who helped me on my previous thread about my FIL upping sticks, handing his a big chunk off his money over to his daughter to ultimately live in her garden. Sorry but I don’t know how to link to my previous thread.

The update from what happened last night when we confronted FIL with our concerns:

“And it turns out that SIL is 14 weeks pregnant.

Apparently when she and her partner first suggested the Cabin idea 6 months or so ago and FIL declined and said he was happy to buy somewhere so he wouldn’t be under their feet, she told him not to be silly as the arrangement would work out really well for all involved as she and her partner were hoping to have more children in the future but that they wouldn’t be able to unless they had a bigger house anyway. SIL then told him how much it would mean to her and how wonderful it would be for FIL to be around to watch new grandchildren be born and see them grow up, liked he’d been around when DB (my husband) had had his children. FIL then agreed that it would be really nice to be around for early days and from then onwards, and agreed it was something he would happy be to look into.

Anyway, it looks like SIL took that as him being board and to cut a long story short, she told FIL she was pregnant about 3 months ago but told him not to tell anyone as it was such early days (her prerogative so that’s fine). Anyhow, it appears that is why FIL put his house up for sale and sold it quickly so the new house could be bought in time for the baby’s arrival. Bit strange really seeing as the baby generally stays with the parents in their room for a good 6 months or so, but that’s the story FIL gave. Stinks of manipulation to me but FIL is clearly happy with what’s happened and he does seem excited about the idea of being around for the new baby.

We asked him what would become of the Cabin if he passed away and he said that wasn’t his problem (with a smile) and said that SIL and her partner could do whatever they liked with it.

He hasn’t looked into anything legal as he didn’t think it was necessary. We did advise it (and gave examples from this thread as reasons why he should) but he told us we are worrying unnecessarily. So that’s his choice to make.

We asked him about the time scale of him staying here which was slightly awkward but he promised us again he would only be here for a few months. We said that was unlikely and explained why (all the issues raised in this thread) but he said things would be moving along quickly and if there are any delays he would move out and rent somewhere near us until the cabin is built. I asked why he wasn’t going to rent over there to make sure he liked the area, but he said he wanted to spend as much time as he could with us before he moved away.

So yes, he seems to be going into this with an awareness of all the ins and outs and is happy to go along with it all, so that’s that. It’s all his decision and if he doesn’t take legal advice then that too is his choice.

We have told him we won’t be taking the offered £25k but thanked him for his offer. As has been said on this thread, he’s probably going to need a back-up fund.

FIL left about an hour ago and me and DH are off to bed now with a film as we feel drained. I just wanted to update you as I’ve had so much help and advice from you all.”

I had a PM this morning from a poster who had wanted to respond to my post last night but realised the thread was full so answered privately instead.

Anyhow - I just wanted to start a second thread as I’m sure others have lots of further advice based on my FIL’s revelation, and also because I doubt this is the end of the matter.

Me and DH struggled to sleep last night but we see it’s a done deal now and due to the pregnancy we know FIL isn’t going to back out the deal so now it’s a case of trying to get him to protect himself as best as he can.

OP posts:
stayathomegardener · 26/03/2021 16:23

I think I'd blame the children
I'm sorry DFIL it's just not fair on the children for you to move in for three months and then move away somewhere where we won't be welcome to visit.

It would be so much better to rent near SIL for three months so we can move you and help you settle and you can be on hand during the purchase and construction on your cabin.

I'm pretty confident he won't be moving in with his daughter after three months in close proximity.

AcrossthePond55 · 26/03/2021 16:27

Is there any way FiL would realize enough from his house sale to buy 2 small-ish flats, one near you and one near SiL? I had an aunt who kept the family home (near one child) and bought a condo near the child who had left the area. She went between the two several times a year.

He could divide his time between the two flats (and families) whilst he's living and write his will to leave the 'local' flat to the 'local' child.

I think his plan is madness and he's being driven by guilt.

AcrossthePond55 · 26/03/2021 16:30

I'd be showing him local listings of flats too, if this is a possibility. And stress that he'd be treating each family 'equally'.

MrsRockAndRoll · 26/03/2021 16:38

@ThornAmongstRoses

You've mentioned this many times - so I wonder how your DH feels about his wife being (rightly) very worried, and why he's prioritising FIL's possibly injured feelings over yours?

I know he would do the exact same thing for me if the tables were flipped and it was one of my parents who needed putting up. It’s so difficult when it comes to parents because it’s only natural to not want to hurt them.

My DH knows I’m not overjoyed about the situation but I will put up with it for his sake, just as he would do for my sake.

I’ve told him though that if any point our marriage or children are negatively affected then he will have to tell FIL to leave.

What if that's 2 months in & your DH is then saying it's only 4 more weeks, please.....: except it's never going to be 3 months given that they have not yet found the magical house with the big garden yet!

OP this just seems awful for you & your DC

cuparfull · 26/03/2021 16:41

When FIL vacates present home he needs to rent somewhere local to the area he will be moving permanently. Crazy to be doing anything else. He may burn all his bridges, hate the location and be entirely beholden to SIL..... What then?
Certainly no cabin in their garden! It gives them power over him.

Buy himself a beautiful winterised mobile home on a registered residential park near to SIL's family, then at least he is nearby for the new baby.... and the residential park home can be easily sold should he absolutely hate the area.
In a residential park home , he will have like minded company around him as they are usually for the over 55's so he'll have a support structure. And with spare bedrooms you can visit him there.
In the interim perhaps he could rent one near to the SIL to see how he fares. He's not thinking this through clearly.
I think it's silly to have him move in with you. And it will impact on the children when he leaves.

Miasicarisatia · 26/03/2021 17:16

imo FIL is trying to engineer a situation where his daughter and his DIL compete to wait on and mother him, he's see's himself as the head of a small tribe and thinks you should all rally round and do his bidding

EggysMom · 26/03/2021 17:30

Most of these replies are going over the same ground - will SIL go through with her plans, why is DFIL doing this, should DFIL stay with the OP ... From the OP's posts it is clear that she's not happy with the plans but it is for her DH to stand up to his DF which he has tried, and does not appear willing to push further at the risk of his relationship with his father. The DH needs to have the epiphany that sharing a home indefinitely for three months will actually do more harm.

Eddielzzard · 26/03/2021 17:34

Re the 3 months of him living with you, if he offers you help eg. with housework and cooking, TAKE IT! Be honest with him and tell him that you find life stressful, and if he offers to help (which sounds to me like he will), let him. Also be honest and tell him that you need quiet down time if the opportunity comes up. Eg if he says he's going to visit friends, play whatever sport, go to the pub with his friends (after lock down of course), ask him if there's anything he'd like to do on the days where you get your down time, so that you get alone time too.

Seriously, if you want these 3 months to be a total disaster, tell him what you need. He'll also feel more comfortable because he'll realise you're being completely upfront and honest.

Eddielzzard · 26/03/2021 17:34

if you don't want!

ButtonMoonLoon · 26/03/2021 17:48

Consideration of my children would hugely influence what I would do in your situation.
Having their Grandfather living with them for three months, seeing them lots every day, and then disappearing not to be seen very often at all will be so very unsettling and confusing to them.
It’s for that reason I would think twice about him staying with you.
BUT on the positive side, you’ve then got three months of drip feeding your concerns, leaving the odd article from Age Concern lying around about deprivation of assets, etc....
Maybe he will listen to somebody else. Is there anyone else in the family who would have a chat to him?
That said, you’ve said and done all you can, but I can understand how very frustrating it must be to see such a financial disaster about to play out.

Twoforthree · 26/03/2021 17:49

Dh has to be cruel to be kind.

Fil needs see what the realities of being a constant babysitter is like, being in a lot of contact with bil, what it's like living in skegness etc. You need to make the realities happen. Ie be cruel to be kind.

Also it will be harder after three months for everyone, so again be cruel to be kind.

AcrossthePond55 · 26/03/2021 17:53

@Eddielzzard

Re the 3 months of him living with you, if he offers you help eg. with housework and cooking, TAKE IT! Be honest with him and tell him that you find life stressful, and if he offers to help (which sounds to me like he will), let him. Also be honest and tell him that you need quiet down time if the opportunity comes up. Eg if he says he's going to visit friends, play whatever sport, go to the pub with his friends (after lock down of course), ask him if there's anything he'd like to do on the days where you get your down time, so that you get alone time too.

Seriously, if you want these 3 months to be a total disaster, tell him what you need. He'll also feel more comfortable because he'll realise you're being completely upfront and honest.

I wouldn't wait for him to offer!

"FiL, could you please , thanks"
"FiL, could you please cook dinner tomorrow night? We just love your , thanks"

OP says he's a very good housekeeper and cook so he shouldn't mind pitching in for the time he's there.

Medievalist · 26/03/2021 18:02

Do you have any family friends op who could talk some sense into him? Or an aunt or uncle? Someone near his age who isn't emotionally invested in what he does?

I agree with others that it's going to be very difficult - if not impossible to ask him to leave after 3 months.

Do you think maybe he's just feeling his own mortality and wants to try and build a better relationship with his dd while he's still got time?

TheMerryWidow1 · 26/03/2021 18:03

Feel for you Op. But he lied to you both before and he could be again. He might well hand over the money and expect to live with you permanently. Ether way you will be picking up the pieces when he has no where to live or needs care.

friskybivalves · 26/03/2021 18:23

Ten to fifteen years' worth of global warming and rising sea levels... Everyone in skeggy will be heading inland. Will no longer be cost effective to maintain flood defences - the bill already runs into the many billions and the whole area is below sea level and v difficult to evacuate owing to poor local roads, high numbers of elderly and vulnerable residents, and alarming density of eg trailer homes that cannot easily withstand storm surges. Environment Agency already v perturbed by it all. Mad place to put any money: mad place to invest life savings. Madness all round.

PerveenMistry · 26/03/2021 18:40

@friskybivalves

Ten to fifteen years' worth of global warming and rising sea levels... Everyone in skeggy will be heading inland. Will no longer be cost effective to maintain flood defences - the bill already runs into the many billions and the whole area is below sea level and v difficult to evacuate owing to poor local roads, high numbers of elderly and vulnerable residents, and alarming density of eg trailer homes that cannot easily withstand storm surges. Environment Agency already v perturbed by it all. Mad place to put any money: mad place to invest life savings. Madness all round.

Wow, excellent point. The he cabin and the house will be worthless.

What a clusterfuck.

DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 26/03/2021 19:29

At least ask FIL what alternative plans he has to moving in with you. And challenge his time scale. Its going to be at least 12 months so what is his plan for after 3 months, vague promises are no good.
If you can't say no at the outset how will you be able to tell him to find another billet at the end of three months.

You should at least attempt to see what his response is to saying you don't want to do it. SIL had no hesitation in saying he couldn't live with them.
I feel for your predicament but it seems crazy to knowingly walk into a majorly difficult situation when you could just say no. What's the worst that could happen? he could say you are a bad DIL and DH, but he could be saying that anyway after 3 months in close quarters. You won't get any thanks from SIL either.
Your priority is your children and DH not FIL, he keeps saying he wants to make his own decisions without advice or reference to anyone else. But expects you to obey him. Its not on.

Mix56 · 26/03/2021 19:51

@EggysMom

Most of these replies are going over the same ground - will SIL go through with her plans, why is DFIL doing this, should DFIL stay with the OP ... From the OP's posts it is clear that she's not happy with the plans but it is for her DH to stand up to his DF which he has tried, and does not appear willing to push further at the risk of his relationship with his father. The DH needs to have the epiphany that sharing a home indefinitely for three months will actually do more harm.
Lets be clear, its not just Dh's house or decision to make. It is Op's house too. She has every right to veto
missbridgerton · 26/03/2021 19:58

Your poor DH, this must be a horrific rejection to be dealing with.

He's being treated very cruelly by his father, and if there is no underlying health issue like early onset dementia (or some other neurological condition) then he's doing so deliberately.

frumpety · 26/03/2021 20:27

I do wonder why he won't get any legal advice ? its fairly normal to involve a solicitor when making a house purchase to protect all parties isn't it ? I presume he is using one for the sale of his house ? So why the sudden aversion to them ?

If he moves in with you or not, you are going to be painted as the bad guys in the not too distant future if you stick to your plan, so you can choose to be the bad guys now and not have to put up with the stress and upset of having him live with you for three months or you can deal with that and be the bad guys when you inevitably need to ask him to move into rented accomodation in three months time. Or will DH guilt trip you into letting him stay for another six weeks and then another and then another, which is what I supsect will happen. If FIL sticks his remaining money in an account that SIL can access, you will all be up shit creek without a paddle, but at least you won't be the bad guys ? Hmm

ApricotCrush · 26/03/2021 20:30

Hang on a minute. Your DH's father has virtually disinherited him, is selling his house and giving most of the proceeds to your SIL in a deal which could leave him destitute and homeless in the future, if it even works out, he will not take any advice from you, and yet wants you to home him free of charge for at least three months maybe indefinitely at great inconvenience to you, and you are allowing this? Confused

Laureline · 26/03/2021 20:42

@ApricotCrush

Hang on a minute. Your DH's father has virtually disinherited him, is selling his house and giving most of the proceeds to your SIL in a deal which could leave him destitute and homeless in the future, if it even works out, he will not take any advice from you, and yet wants you to home him free of charge for at least three months maybe indefinitely at great inconvenience to you, and you are allowing this? Confused
That about sums it up!
frumpety · 26/03/2021 20:43

Wouldn't SIL need to pay tax on a lump sum cash gift of 90k ? Is that why he is avoiding legal advice, he is just going to transfer the money into her account and hope no-one notices ?

Alsohuman · 26/03/2021 21:20

@frumpety

Wouldn't SIL need to pay tax on a lump sum cash gift of 90k ? Is that why he is avoiding legal advice, he is just going to transfer the money into her account and hope no-one notices ?
Only if he dies in less than seven years in which case it’s liable for inheritance tax.
GreenMeeple · 26/03/2021 21:23

@frumpety

Wouldn't SIL need to pay tax on a lump sum cash gift of 90k ? Is that why he is avoiding legal advice, he is just going to transfer the money into her account and hope no-one notices ?
I don't think so. He should be able to gift the money to his daughter without tax implications. Unless he dies within 7 year, then she would have to pay inheritance tax.

However if he doesn't buy a new house himself with the money from his house sale he might need to pay a hefty sum of capital gains tax. Depending on when he bought the house and at what price. If he is trying to avoid paying tax he would be much better off buying a new place of his own.

Also other people have pointed out that any money he gives to his daughter now might still have to be given back to pay for his care bills if needed in the future.

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