Inheritance issues - part 2. AKA: Is FIL being manipulated and ripped off?

[ThornAmongstRoses]

This thread is for those who helped me on my previous thread about my FIL upping sticks, handing his a big chunk off his money over to his daughter to ultimately live in her garden. Sorry but I don’t know how to link to my previous thread.

The update from what happened last night when we confronted FIL with our concerns:

“And it turns out that SIL is 14 weeks pregnant.

Apparently when she and her partner first suggested the Cabin idea 6 months or so ago and FIL declined and said he was happy to buy somewhere so he wouldn’t be under their feet, she told him not to be silly as the arrangement would work out really well for all involved as she and her partner were hoping to have more children in the future but that they wouldn’t be able to unless they had a bigger house anyway. SIL then told him how much it would mean to her and how wonderful it would be for FIL to be around to watch new grandchildren be born and see them grow up, liked he’d been around when DB (my husband) had had his children. FIL then agreed that it would be really nice to be around for early days and from then onwards, and agreed it was something he would happy be to look into.

Anyway, it looks like SIL took that as him being board and to cut a long story short, she told FIL she was pregnant about 3 months ago but told him not to tell anyone as it was such early days (her prerogative so that’s fine). Anyhow, it appears that is why FIL put his house up for sale and sold it quickly so the new house could be bought in time for the baby’s arrival. Bit strange really seeing as the baby generally stays with the parents in their room for a good 6 months or so, but that’s the story FIL gave. Stinks of manipulation to me but FIL is clearly happy with what’s happened and he does seem excited about the idea of being around for the new baby.

We asked him what would become of the Cabin if he passed away and he said that wasn’t his problem (with a smile) and said that SIL and her partner could do whatever they liked with it.

He hasn’t looked into anything legal as he didn’t think it was necessary. We did advise it (and gave examples from this thread as reasons why he should) but he told us we are worrying unnecessarily. So that’s his choice to make.

We asked him about the time scale of him staying here which was slightly awkward but he promised us again he would only be here for a few months. We said that was unlikely and explained why (all the issues raised in this thread) but he said things would be moving along quickly and if there are any delays he would move out and rent somewhere near us until the cabin is built. I asked why he wasn’t going to rent over there to make sure he liked the area, but he said he wanted to spend as much time as he could with us before he moved away.

So yes, he seems to be going into this with an awareness of all the ins and outs and is happy to go along with it all, so that’s that. It’s all his decision and if he doesn’t take legal advice then that too is his choice.

We have told him we won’t be taking the offered £25k but thanked him for his offer. As has been said on this thread, he’s probably going to need a back-up fund.

FIL left about an hour ago and me and DH are off to bed now with a film as we feel drained. I just wanted to update you as I’ve had so much help and advice from you all.”

I had a PM this morning from a poster who had wanted to respond to my post last night but realised the thread was full so answered privately instead.

Anyhow - I just wanted to start a second thread as I’m sure others have lots of further advice based on my FIL’s revelation, and also because I doubt this is the end of the matter.

Me and DH struggled to sleep last night but we see it’s a done deal now and due to the pregnancy we know FIL isn’t going to back out the deal so now it’s a case of trying to get him to protect himself as best as he can.

I agree with many posters that suggesting he didn't move in with you now will be less painful and less relationship damaging than asking him to leave after 3 months. Perhaps if you feel you want to do this he needs to arrange in advance a month 4 option e.g rent a holiday chalet in Skeggness for month 4 ( if by some miracle all is in place your family can use it to visit but more likely he will be waiting on house sales going through or cabin builds)

@stackemhigh

Sorry I read OP's posts but missed why FIL can't move in with his DD? Is it too small to accommodate him for a few months?

I would have thought it would be an ideal opportunity to see if they all get on in a confined space. They've seen so little of each other all these years that I have a feeling they will grate on each other pretty quickly.

OP, the kindest thing (long term) to do here is not let FIL stay with you as it will force him to be more careful.

Eithe:

1. he movies in with SIL, realises that living with other people is limiting, even if you are going to be in a cabin later on

2. he moves into a rental and hopefully realises that that could be his reality should things go wrong with the cabin/SIL.

Incidentally, is he planning to give the £90k to SIL directly or pay it himself?

IIRC they're house is too small, currently a two bed house with 2 adults and 2 kids, plus the fact that the daughters partner actively despises the father.

If I had to guess, the partner will never want to be in a confined space with the father, I said in anther one of my replies, he's going to be isolated in that cabin in their garden. I'd be genuinely surprised if he is even given a key to the house, or allowed in when no-one is there. They don't even want him living in the new house, until this mythical cabin is sited.

@NettleTea

i would also ring the cabin company. Ask specifically about whether they need planning permission if they are going to be used as self contained accomodation. Ask how many they have applied for, how long it took - including the imapct of covid, and what percentage were granted. And how much that process costs. Thats just one phone call.

Then call the planning dept in skegness and ask them about it. And ask how long planning applications are taking at the moment. Thats two phonecalls.

That will give you some hard facts to pass onto your FIL, not even touching the house purchase

The planning portal is very clear that permission WILL be needed if the accommodation is self contained. It doesnt come under granny annexe status because he is fit and healthy

This is excellent advice and will give you hard facts as to why you can't have FIL moving in with you as it will inevitably be for far longer than three months and he would be better off arranging rental accommodation in Skegness to coincide with the sale of his house near you. Less disruption all round, saves moving twice in a short space of time plus he will be in the area and on hand for all the issues that will arise re planning and availability.

@Biker47 I agree with you.

I don't think FIL will ever leave OP's house if he moves in.

Backing up a few steps, if his house hasn't yet exchanged then why wouldn't he get a few more valuations and try and sell it for market value rather than at a discount to other properties' in the area.
Sounds like your FIL is being taken advantage by estate agents as well as your SIL and BIL.

By the way I'm not convinced a bank will give her a bigger mortgage or indeed that she'll get the managerial role if she is pregnant. Sad but true.
Chances are they'll take his money, buy a bigger house, but guess what the garden is too small for a cabin and suddenly it's "Dad is so happy in your house, why doesn't he just stay there"
Why oh why can he not see sense.

I'm just curious what house they're going to buy, I had a quick look on rightmove, even up to £350k, majority of the houses have bang average garden space, certainly not big enough for a 2 bedroom/dining/kitchen/lounge/bathroom cabin.

I m was assuming that if the cabin gets built he will be allowed to move in

If not, why let it be built as it would just be an eyesore in their garden

An eyesore that could be let for between £50-£100 per night.

Sorry I can't find the previous thread, is it right that the house sold for £125k, he's giving £90k for the cabin, so is left with £35k?

£250k.

He's giving £90k to the daughter to enable them to buy a bigger house, then anything from £90-120k on a 2 bedroom cabin for the garden, then tried to bribe the OP and husband with £25k.

Biker47
I think the only way of getting a cabin in the garden is to go inland. Usually sea side towns have houses with small to average size gardens.
Fil wants to live by the sea. I think he doesn’t want to move to the area because the reality might interfere with his dream

I see a similar dynamic in my own family, my mum gives lots of financial help to my brother (he works seasonal hours only) and then expects this to be 'evened out' to her by me paying for her shopping, meals out etc.

It doesn't seem to compute that it should be my brother doing the evening out not me.

Similarly, I think sub-consciously FIL thinks it's OP/DH's responsibility to even out this situation by letting him stay temporarily (or permanently if things go wrong).

Thanks Biker!

I’d be asking him about his pension, I’m assuming that as he’s retired at 65, he has a very good income from it? Is it a ‘guaranteed’ company pension or annuity that dies with him or has he got a personal pension in drawdown that he has control of?
In my experience, parents always seem to favour the child who does the least in terms of visiting/putting themselves out etc. I’ve seen it time and time again, the one who can’t be arsed gets everything, while the one who actually give a shit and who perhaps damage their own health and relationships, get shafted.

A house on a road not far from me was sold and has been renovated fully.
Home office has also been built but it took some negotiations from the neighbours for it to go ahead.
These are large gardens, 150 feet in length, 100ft in width.

Not everyone will be happy with such a structure, even with a large garden.

Are they going to get agreement from the neighbours before they buy.
What if they don't.
Buy a house and then realise they can't put a cabin in?

SIL has her house and FIL stays put.

The point about checking the timeline for delivery is bang on.

Even regular sheds have a long waiting list.

It real is hard to believe this is anything more than a shakedown with the OP and her husband having FIL living with them indefinitely until the OP cracks, or her marriage.

@Bythemillpond

I m was assuming that if the cabin gets built he will be allowed to move in

If not, why let it be built as it would just be an eyesore in their garden

An eyesore that could be let for between £50-£100 per night.

That's if either of them could be bothered by the work that goes into air B&B(?).

Plus of course gaining permission,

I loved my DF. He used to come and stay each year, for a fortnight, in our lovely big house, in the spare room. By the second week I would be frazzeled, after he'd left I would take to my bed for a day to recover.

I don't think I could have coped with a whole 3 months.

I really don’t understand why FIL doesn’t buy a small, independent property in Skegness and avoid all this hassle! He would be near enough to see plenty of his DD and grandchildren, but have his own space too without having to live alongside his unpleasant SIL. He would be close enough to offer support/childcare to them (I assume he drives and has a car). You would also be able to visit and stay with him, just as he would visit and stay with you.
This would also give him the possibility of selling up there and moving back closer to you if things didn’t work out as he hoped and he wasn’t happy there.
The crazy idea of a cabin in the garden is the financial equivalent of putting all his eggs in a basket full of gaping holes.

Tell I'm now.

You've thought about it from every angle, but you just don't have the room for a prolonged stay and he really needs to rent, as he woill have to anyway, because there is no way SIL will even have a house, let alone his accommodation sorted.

Point out that your children won't be able to cope with him being there 24/, then suddenly disappearing - it will upset them too much. You're sure he understands, loving them as he does.

Tell him that if he rents near you he is very welcome to come to yours every Sunday for dinner and to share the day with your kids.

Honestly! I've lived with relatives short-term when between homes, and it came close to destroying our relationship. It honestly isn't worth it.

"Hi not sure if this has been mentioned as I have not read every thread, I know you have said the cabins take 6 weeks to build from ordering but we have been looking at getting a similar sized cabin and everywhere has a huge waiting list, quite a few told us they wouldn't be available for 2 years!
Surely this will make your H re think this fiasco ?

@ThornAmongstRoses.
I may be completely wide of the mark here but is there a chance your FiL could be showing early signs of dementia? He is very young for it (not much older than me) but this kind of unusual and almost irrational behaviour and poor decision making can be one of the first signs.
It happened with my FiL. He started making odd decisions - only small, like buying a big new TV without telling his wife and then he had a minor car accident when he went forwards instead of back in a parking space.These were all things we more or less laughed off at the time but in hindsight they were the start of what (years later) is advancing dementia.
I hope I'm wrong but it's clear he's making himself vulnerable in lots of ways and if this is outside his normal behaviour it's worth considering.

@NettleTea

i would also ring the cabin company. Ask specifically about whether they need planning permission if they are going to be used as self contained accomodation. Ask how many they have applied for, how long it took - including the imapct of covid, and what percentage were granted. And how much that process costs. Thats just one phone call.

Then call the planning dept in skegness and ask them about it. And ask how long planning applications are taking at the moment. Thats two phonecalls.

That will give you some hard facts to pass onto your FIL, not even touching the house purchase

The planning portal is very clear that permission WILL be needed if the accommodation is self contained. It doesnt come under granny annexe status because he is fit and healthy

I believe that this depends on the individual LA. For example our LA does not allow annexes for habitation, only storage. You can only have electricity/gas/water. Not all of them. Others allow more.

He will have to rent anyway, there is no way a house can be bought and a cabin fitted within 3 months, and her house isn't even on the market yet.
It may be very very hard to stop him moving in now, but it is much easier than asking him to leave
Could your husband take him to Skegness for a weekend to view rental properties and some he could afford to buy?

A very wise colleague once said to me “Milk and relatives go off after 4 days.”

Have you been totally honest with your DH about how you feel about FIL staying? Have you actually said “I’m worried about privacy and the strain this will put on our kids and our marriage.” or have you just said “I’ll do it if it makes you happy?”

You know FIL will be there longer than 3 months don’t you. Are you honestly saying you will make him leave after this time? What if he turns on the waterworks with pleas of “I’ve nowhere else to go to !”. Far easier to put your foot down now and say “This no longer works for us.” before he has actually moved in.

Think of the message you are sending to your kids. You are showing them that it is acceptable to allow other people to treat you like a doormat. Look at your children and ask yourself “Would I ever behave towards my children the way FIL is treating us?” If the answer is no then for goodness sake stand up for yourselves now before it is too late.

You will not be damaging the relationship between your DH and his father, his father has already done the damage and you are attempting to stick a plaster on a gaping wound. It will not end well, whichever option you choose, so you need to choose the one that does the least amount of damage to you, your children and your marriage.

But ye will be packed in like sardines, stressed and angry and your poor children in the midst of it all

THIS, THIS, THIS!!!