Inheritance issues - part 2. AKA: Is FIL being manipulated and ripped off?

[ThornAmongstRoses]

This thread is for those who helped me on my previous thread about my FIL upping sticks, handing his a big chunk off his money over to his daughter to ultimately live in her garden. Sorry but I don’t know how to link to my previous thread.

The update from what happened last night when we confronted FIL with our concerns:

“And it turns out that SIL is 14 weeks pregnant.

Apparently when she and her partner first suggested the Cabin idea 6 months or so ago and FIL declined and said he was happy to buy somewhere so he wouldn’t be under their feet, she told him not to be silly as the arrangement would work out really well for all involved as she and her partner were hoping to have more children in the future but that they wouldn’t be able to unless they had a bigger house anyway. SIL then told him how much it would mean to her and how wonderful it would be for FIL to be around to watch new grandchildren be born and see them grow up, liked he’d been around when DB (my husband) had had his children. FIL then agreed that it would be really nice to be around for early days and from then onwards, and agreed it was something he would happy be to look into.

Anyway, it looks like SIL took that as him being board and to cut a long story short, she told FIL she was pregnant about 3 months ago but told him not to tell anyone as it was such early days (her prerogative so that’s fine). Anyhow, it appears that is why FIL put his house up for sale and sold it quickly so the new house could be bought in time for the baby’s arrival. Bit strange really seeing as the baby generally stays with the parents in their room for a good 6 months or so, but that’s the story FIL gave. Stinks of manipulation to me but FIL is clearly happy with what’s happened and he does seem excited about the idea of being around for the new baby.

We asked him what would become of the Cabin if he passed away and he said that wasn’t his problem (with a smile) and said that SIL and her partner could do whatever they liked with it.

He hasn’t looked into anything legal as he didn’t think it was necessary. We did advise it (and gave examples from this thread as reasons why he should) but he told us we are worrying unnecessarily. So that’s his choice to make.

We asked him about the time scale of him staying here which was slightly awkward but he promised us again he would only be here for a few months. We said that was unlikely and explained why (all the issues raised in this thread) but he said things would be moving along quickly and if there are any delays he would move out and rent somewhere near us until the cabin is built. I asked why he wasn’t going to rent over there to make sure he liked the area, but he said he wanted to spend as much time as he could with us before he moved away.

So yes, he seems to be going into this with an awareness of all the ins and outs and is happy to go along with it all, so that’s that. It’s all his decision and if he doesn’t take legal advice then that too is his choice.

We have told him we won’t be taking the offered £25k but thanked him for his offer. As has been said on this thread, he’s probably going to need a back-up fund.

FIL left about an hour ago and me and DH are off to bed now with a film as we feel drained. I just wanted to update you as I’ve had so much help and advice from you all.”

I had a PM this morning from a poster who had wanted to respond to my post last night but realised the thread was full so answered privately instead.

Anyhow - I just wanted to start a second thread as I’m sure others have lots of further advice based on my FIL’s revelation, and also because I doubt this is the end of the matter.

Me and DH struggled to sleep last night but we see it’s a done deal now and due to the pregnancy we know FIL isn’t going to back out the deal so now it’s a case of trying to get him to protect himself as best as he can.

I would let the heat go out of the situation for a little while, then revisit it with DH, and then FIL.

It really is a ridiculous waste of your time and hospitality and resources to be the people dealing with the emotional and practical fall-out of a plan that will solely benefit your SIL.

It's not unfair to FIL to say sorry, we just don't think we can do what you are asking. We love you, the DC love you, and we only want what's best for everyone. And that would not be you moving in here.

I totally understand your wish to do the right thing by your FIL but he doesn't really need it does he? He's quite clearly capable of renting a home for himself so why does he not just do it now? And if you don't feel able to tell him he can't stay because 'he's family' then how will you be able to tell him to leave in 3 months time if he says 'I've nowhere to go'? I've already posted this but it's worth repeating - he will only be able to get a rental ppty based on his income, he will not get one based on saying he's got capital out of which he can pay the rent.

@NoSquirrels

I would let the heat go out of the situation for a little while, then revisit it with DH, and then FIL.

It really is a ridiculous waste of your time and hospitality and resources to be the people dealing with the emotional and practical fall-out of a plan that will solely benefit your SIL.

It's not unfair to FIL to say sorry, we just don't think we can do what you are asking. We love you, the DC love you, and we only want what's best for everyone. And that would not be you moving in here.

I agree - but doesn't he have to move out soon as the house is sold in April?

It's a real pity that FIL has done so much by going on holiday with his DS and family twice a year (not many DIL's would want that), having a good relationship etc but then being stubborn otherwise.

I'd actually say, yes, you can stay, but provided you get legal advice beforehand. And then give a definite limit of 3 months.

Everyone is saying the same thing OP, it will be hell.

Your FIL doesn't care that he is putting you out.
He's shown you exactly how little he cares.

I think YOU really really need to sink into how difficult all this is going to be for you.

I can't see you and your husband having the backbone to ask him to leave.

If you did I have no doubt you will be cast as the baddies, despite all you have done.

You would be far wiser to box clever now and to say "upon mature reflection we think it's better for you to rent to protect the relationship".

You OP as the woman of the house is going to take the total hit for this.

The annoyance will affect your study.
You will feel so imposed upon in your home.
You will feel your only space in your home is your bedroom.
All the while dancing around this selfish man.
There will be NO escaping the annoyance of his plans and the knowledge that he is a liar who isn't telling ye the full story.
All the while he is plonked in your tiny house, saving money, to hand over to your SIL.

I can't believe you are doing it.
I would put money on the fact that he will be in no rush to go anywhere, SIL will have her money and not be in any rush.

But ye will be packed in like sardines, stressed and angry and your poor children in the midst of it all.

I have had several friends have parents that they adore stay for a month a couple of times in spacious houses and it was hard for them.

People love their privacy.
Having ANYONE to stay is hard, even if you love them.
Family's need their privacy.

It hard isnt it when grown up have this idea in their head and nothing (even common sense and logic) will shift it.

My parents are keen caravanners and have been all their life. They are talking now about selling their paid for house and buying a top of the range camper van and travelling round the world in it and living in it.

I have tried to cautiously put them off this idea but they bat away any of my concerns. They are both mid 70's and my dad has a dodgy heart. I just cannot get my head around it. What happens when they get fed up of the open road or my dad needs to be home for his heart appointments? They will have nowhere to live. It a crazy idea. If they were in their 40's or even 50;s i would still think it was mad but wouldnt have any concerns.

I think my mum secretly hates caravanning for long periods of time now so it probably wont happen. I bloody hope it doesnt. It has disaster written all over.

Imagine if it had been 2 years ago they did this then Covid hit, they would either be stuck in a foreign country or back here either camped in my garden or in DD's bedroom.

@Whatamesssss

I can't remember but are SIL and BIL Married?

Who's name will the house be in? If they are not married and the house is solely in BIL name, he could sell at any time and SIL and FIL would have no say it and be homeless.

He really needs to get his head out of the sand and look at all the pitfalls.

When we were changing mortgage companies many years ago our then 18 year old daughter had to sign something to say she agreed to our doing this even though her name was not on the mortgage nor deeds but it was because she, as an adult, lived there. Your SIL may find that her mortgage company will want something in writing regardiing her father's legal position at the property.

Surely the best solution is for your FiL to withdraw from the sale of his house until his DD has actually put her house on the market and possibly found the next one. That way FiL is keeping his money until something tangible is happening. He is going to waste so much money renting somewhere while he waits (obviously the plan they hatched was he lived with you until it happened while DD had the money in her pocket) I feel nothing but dread for you and your FiL

How easy will your DH find it to tell him to leave after three months and he has nowhere to go?

Because that's the reality.

I would also say no to him staying at all.

Because you've not been privy to any plans so how can you agree to part of them.
Because it won't be 3 months.
Because it's a massive imposition and you know it will cause reactions to deteriorate.

"I know he would do the exact same thing for me if the tables were flipped and it was one of my parents who needed putting up. It’s so difficult when it comes to parents because it’s only natural to not want to hurt them"

He doesn't need putting up, he wants to be.

He doesn't care about how much he is hurting you, his son & his GC.

Very good point about FIL's possessions.

OP, this jumped out at me - he just keeps telling me there’s no need to worry about him. That’s his lookout I suppose - he’s a grown man, mentally capable of making his own decisions

If he's such a grown-up with no need for input from you, why on earth does he think he has the right to impose himself on your family, at such practical and emotional cost, for three months and the rest ?

If he's such a grown-up, to the extent that he cooks up this scheme with SIL behind your back and doesn't tell you and DH what's really going on even when he's sold his house, why hasn't he sorted rental accommodation himself as well and presented it to you as a fait accompli?

I'm sorry, but all bets would be off for me, and the '3-month stay' would not be happening at all. If he's so insistent on being an adult who knows his own mind, that's perfectly fine, but he needs to stand on his own two feet with his own money and not invade your space.

Family feeling only goes so far in the face of stupidity, I'm afraid.

Also.

He lied.

He said he was looking at property near you originally.

How can you be sure he's not lying to you continually to get what he wants.

@Oblahdeeoblahdoe

Surely the best solution is for your FiL to withdraw from the sale of his house until his DD has actually put her house on the market and possibly found the next one. That way FiL is keeping his money until something tangible is happening. He is going to waste so much money renting somewhere while he waits (obviously the plan they hatched was he lived with you until it happened while DD had the money in her pocket) I feel nothing but dread for you and your FiL

This.

If his house sold quickly he won't have trouble finding a buyer in time.

@NoSquirrels

I would let the heat go out of the situation for a little while, then revisit it with DH, and then FIL.

It really is a ridiculous waste of your time and hospitality and resources to be the people dealing with the emotional and practical fall-out of a plan that will solely benefit your SIL.

It's not unfair to FIL to say sorry, we just don't think we can do what you are asking. We love you, the DC love you, and we only want what's best for everyone. And that would not be you moving in here.

I agree in a way about letting the heat go out of the situation but I think the OP and her dh need to let FIL know as soon as practicable that they will not be having him to stay for three months. I would suggest they let it lie over the weekend and then next week tell FIL that they have thought long and hard and discussed it at length over the weekend and have come to the conclusion that they cannot accommodate him for three months and he will need to make arrangements to move into a rental property as soon as his house is sold.

They need to take the emotion out of it, extremely difficult I know, and be objective, it won't work for them and their children emotionally, financially or practically and they fear it would forever taint the relationship they have with FIL, far better to part on good terms now, for all of them.

@isitsafetocomeoutyet

Also.

He lied.

He said he was looking at property near you originally.

How can you be sure he's not lying to you continually to get what he wants.

It's weird that he lies because he SHOULD be able to do what he wants, no need to lie about it. I get he didn't want to hurt anyone but by keeping secrets it hurts people more.

I have read the full threads and like others am appalled by the situation.
But what totally amazes me is FIL is only 65 , younger than me !
Why is he giving his money away , what does he intend to live on for the next 20 years ??
You can’t stop him following this crazy scheme but you can refuse to collude. What is the point of taking him in for 3 months then having to throw him out at that point
Because , as everyone points out , there is no way house can be found , purchased and everything else sorted in anything like 3 months

Apart from moving in with the OP..

Do you think you will be able to ask him to leave after three months? It would be better if he didn't stay at all. It will protect your relationship with him too, it will be very difficult to ask him to leave when he is already in your house. If he does stay, don't pussyfoot around him, live your lives and don't put him first. Put your own family first. This is going to be difficult for you and your children. Put them first and say he can't stay. If he wants to make a stupid decision, he has to own it. By all means support him with advice but don't let him stay.

I am really not understanding why your Dh is feeling guilty.
Your fil and sil cooked all this up between them. This ridiculous scheme is what they have chosen to do. What has it got anything to do with you.
If fil wants to move to Skegness and give all his money away then that is his choice.

Your fil needs a short sharp shock of reality that stupid choices cost money not to decide he doesn’t want to go into rented because he doesn’t want to spend money so he will sponge off you for a while.

Once he is under your roof and things go pear shape will your Dh feel guilty because by that point your fil will be really homeless as he not have any or enough money left

I think long term you can kiss your marriage goodbye and I would expect your children to leave home as soon as they can.

It is all very well to say at this point that if at any point you marriage or children are negatively affected then your dh will have to tell FIL to leave but that isn’t going to happen over night and what if your Dh gets torn and decides to come down on the side of his father as he feels guilty for the old man.
It is already negatively affecting you. You won’t have the house to yourself for 2 days per week so why does he need to move in just to prove the point

I read all of last thread, all op's posts but not all pps on this thread so sorry if already has been said:

all might not be lost if:

FIL doesn't have to give the money to SIL until a suitable house needs offering on, right?
he therefore gets a say in to what a suitable house is and retain £whatever is needed to build the cabin and assess liklihood of planning being granted etc, he can a bring a local cabin builder with him on a second viewing to give their opinion on the liklihood of it being possible and a ball park figure.

If he does stay with you, you have 3 months for him to change his mind or get some reality.

if it still goes ahead he might encourage sil to buy a home where he can stay while cabin is built (my house is like this, 2 cottages knocked in to 1 therefore utility room was a kitchen and there is a bathroom downstairs and a separate lounge, it was used as a "grandpa wing" for a bit.

or is he just going to transfer £90k willy nilly to sil?

@Octothorpe

Very good point about FIL's possessions.

OP, this jumped out at me - he just keeps telling me there’s no need to worry about him. That’s his lookout I suppose - he’s a grown man, mentally capable of making his own decisions

If he's such a grown-up with no need for input from you, why on earth does he think he has the right to impose himself on your family, at such practical and emotional cost, for three months and the rest ?

If he's such a grown-up, to the extent that he cooks up this scheme with SIL behind your back and doesn't tell you and DH what's really going on even when he's sold his house, why hasn't he sorted rental accommodation himself as well and presented it to you as a fait accompli?

I'm sorry, but all bets would be off for me, and the '3-month stay' would not be happening at all. If he's so insistent on being an adult who knows his own mind, that's perfectly fine, but he needs to stand on his own two feet with his own money and not invade your space.

Family feeling only goes so far in the face of stupidity, I'm afraid.

I agree with this. Expecting someone to put you up for months on end, when it is causing them some inconvenience, should only happen if there is an emergency. He is perfectly capable and should be financially able, to sort out renting somewhere for six months, as it will take at least that long for his daughter to find and buy a house, and longer still to get planning permission and build a suitable cabin. He is completely deluded if he imagines it will only be three months. Given that many places ask for a minimum six month tenancy, why is he even attempting to stay with you ? He will definitely need to rent somewhere in three months time, he will have to pay to store all his things in the interim too, it is far more sensible on every level to rent somewhere now. Does he think he is doing you a favour, spending lots of time with you all before he moves ?

It very much sounds as though his dd and her partner have done a number on him to get his £90,000 , by making him feel as though he has favoured you all over them.

At the very least, I think your OH should say by letter if necessary,
No, his Dad is disinheriting him, & throwing his money away on a glorified shed, that will deflate in value. & sink his money in Dds house, with her nasty piece of work husband ... & should there be a future separation she is not even necessarily on the deeds. So not only he, but both of them may be shafted. So No, it wont work with him moving in, you dont have the room either.
He should just go & rent a flat nearby Dd. & not to come crying when his money is lost & he is miserable living in their garden with their backdoor well & truly locked from the inside every evening.
He is ignoring all advice given, & he has basically turned his back on the only one of his 2 dcs who have cared & shared with him. & most probably caused irreparable damage to your relationships

3 months would have made sense if there was something happening that took about 3 months. There isn't, though. Nothing will be different in 3 months' time except sil will be nearer to her due date.

If it's set in stone that he's coming, make sure you all know the actual date he needs to leave by. So if he moves in on 20 April, don't keep saying "in 3 months time", talk about 20 July as the end point. Maybe tie it to school holidays if that works out, that gives you a physical "reason" to need your own space again.

@isitsafetocomeoutyet

Also.

He lied.

He said he was looking at property near you originally.

How can you be sure he's not lying to you continually to get what he wants.

Yes and why did he lie? Because he knows that in order to get what he wants he has to trick you into going along with him until you're in a situation where it's too late and you can't back out

I know he would do the exact same thing for me if the tables were flipped and it was one of my parents who needed putting up. It’s so difficult when it comes to parents because it’s only natural to not want to hurt them
That’s true but all that says to me is that you also have elderly relatives who may need to call on your support in the future and although willing to help, your DH won’t be in a position to help you if you are both dealing from the fall out of FIL “making his own mistakes”

Also your FIL is hurting you or at least stressing you both to bits. He doesn’t seem to care a hoot about the effect that lying to you both for the last six months.
Yes we owe our parents affection of course but do you really owe him the right to dictate that you comply with his ill thought out wishes despite the stress it will put on your own family?
As many have pointed out. He doesn’t have to do this, he’s choosing to.
You, your children and dH come first

3 months wouldn’t even get to sil giving birth let alone get this new better paying job she is after. 3 months is the time it takes to buy a house if you have seen and offered on one already. There is so much more needed to be done before it gets to that stage.