Inheritance issues - part 2. AKA: Is FIL being manipulated and ripped off?

[ThornAmongstRoses]

This thread is for those who helped me on my previous thread about my FIL upping sticks, handing his a big chunk off his money over to his daughter to ultimately live in her garden. Sorry but I don’t know how to link to my previous thread.

The update from what happened last night when we confronted FIL with our concerns:

“And it turns out that SIL is 14 weeks pregnant.

Apparently when she and her partner first suggested the Cabin idea 6 months or so ago and FIL declined and said he was happy to buy somewhere so he wouldn’t be under their feet, she told him not to be silly as the arrangement would work out really well for all involved as she and her partner were hoping to have more children in the future but that they wouldn’t be able to unless they had a bigger house anyway. SIL then told him how much it would mean to her and how wonderful it would be for FIL to be around to watch new grandchildren be born and see them grow up, liked he’d been around when DB (my husband) had had his children. FIL then agreed that it would be really nice to be around for early days and from then onwards, and agreed it was something he would happy be to look into.

Anyway, it looks like SIL took that as him being board and to cut a long story short, she told FIL she was pregnant about 3 months ago but told him not to tell anyone as it was such early days (her prerogative so that’s fine). Anyhow, it appears that is why FIL put his house up for sale and sold it quickly so the new house could be bought in time for the baby’s arrival. Bit strange really seeing as the baby generally stays with the parents in their room for a good 6 months or so, but that’s the story FIL gave. Stinks of manipulation to me but FIL is clearly happy with what’s happened and he does seem excited about the idea of being around for the new baby.

We asked him what would become of the Cabin if he passed away and he said that wasn’t his problem (with a smile) and said that SIL and her partner could do whatever they liked with it.

He hasn’t looked into anything legal as he didn’t think it was necessary. We did advise it (and gave examples from this thread as reasons why he should) but he told us we are worrying unnecessarily. So that’s his choice to make.

We asked him about the time scale of him staying here which was slightly awkward but he promised us again he would only be here for a few months. We said that was unlikely and explained why (all the issues raised in this thread) but he said things would be moving along quickly and if there are any delays he would move out and rent somewhere near us until the cabin is built. I asked why he wasn’t going to rent over there to make sure he liked the area, but he said he wanted to spend as much time as he could with us before he moved away.

So yes, he seems to be going into this with an awareness of all the ins and outs and is happy to go along with it all, so that’s that. It’s all his decision and if he doesn’t take legal advice then that too is his choice.

We have told him we won’t be taking the offered £25k but thanked him for his offer. As has been said on this thread, he’s probably going to need a back-up fund.

FIL left about an hour ago and me and DH are off to bed now with a film as we feel drained. I just wanted to update you as I’ve had so much help and advice from you all.”

I had a PM this morning from a poster who had wanted to respond to my post last night but realised the thread was full so answered privately instead.

Anyhow - I just wanted to start a second thread as I’m sure others have lots of further advice based on my FIL’s revelation, and also because I doubt this is the end of the matter.

Me and DH struggled to sleep last night but we see it’s a done deal now and due to the pregnancy we know FIL isn’t going to back out the deal so now it’s a case of trying to get him to protect himself as best as he can.

You're treating him like a king, kowtowing having to his every wish, he's loaded and yet he gets to come and stay with you for free, inconveniencing you and making you feel uncomfortable in your own home
he's going to lord it over you and behave as if he can do whatever he likes... Meanwell sister-in-law et el will be sulking and stirring things up, milking the situation for all it's worth ☹️

Oh I’m dreading it

You've mentioned this many times - so I wonder how your DH feels about his wife being (rightly) very worried, and why he's prioritising FIL's possibly injured feelings over yours?

Sorry, but this wouldn't suit me at all

@ThornAmongstRoses

I just want to bang his head against a wall and ask how it is that he can’t see what’s going on underneath his nose? How can someone be so naive? Or unaware?

Maybe selfish is the word that youu are after.

So, what is your husband, who has decided that his dad can stay for three months going to do to help with anything?

I hope DH realises that when he "throws his dad out" (this will be the spin put on it) he will be the bad guy. The very overused but true expression 'no good deed goes unpunished' will be clearly seen.

So all your kindness and patience in giving up your slobby choccy days will not be appreciated or even remembered.

Your FIL sounds very stupid and very selfish. He’s quite happy to take over rooms in your house rather than just go to Skegness. Your dh doesn’t want his dad upset and is offering for him to stay but what happens if it doesn’t work out in Skegness? Is your DH going to see his dad out on the street. Your SIL and her father have cooked up this whole thing, they can’t just use you when they want.

You've mentioned this many times - so I wonder how your DH feels about his wife being (rightly) very worried, and why he's prioritising FIL's possibly injured feelings over yours?

I know he would do the exact same thing for me if the tables were flipped and it was one of my parents who needed putting up. It’s so difficult when it comes to parents because it’s only natural to not want to hurt them.

My DH knows I’m not overjoyed about the situation but I will put up with it for his sake, just as he would do for my sake.

I’ve told him though that if any point our marriage or children are negatively affected then he will have to tell FIL to leave.

OP, this sounds a hellish situation. I honestly don't know how I'd handle it. Your FIL is being stubborn, your SIL manipulative and uncommunicative, your DH passive.

All I can suggest is that you put a condition on your FIL moving in that he seeks legal advice. And that the advice is out in writing and copied to both DH and SIL.

It's the very least FIL owes you.

Oh, and insist on monthly review catch ups with all parties. Kids out of the way, zoom conference call, everyone present. What progress with SIL's promotion, house hunt, moving date, mat leave, when she's settled and bonded with baby so ready for next stage of the plan, planning consent, FIL's moving in day etc.

And don't you bloody dare get involved in moving FIL's stuff into storage and then up to Skegness. SIL should facilitate all of that.

@AmaryllisNightAndDay

The person whose head you need to bang against the wall is your husband for being such a wet lettuce. You can't do much about your father in law. But your husband should be protecting your home.

He later felt guilty about it so the agreement then was that FIL could stay but with a set time limit of 3 months.

And when it comes to three months time your husband will feel guilty all over again and his father will stay as long as he likes. Possible forever. Your FIL might be penniless by then as well, since he is stupid as well as manipulative.

How can someone be so naive? Or unaware?

FiL doesn't care. He can live in cloud cucckoo land because he can live with you and your husband for as long as he pleases and he knows it.

The only chance you and DH have of protecting FiL and yourselves is to refuse to have anything to do with the whole scheme. Doin't accept being guilt-tripped into any part of this idea. No moving in with you. I think you'll find that if you and DH stop agreeing to be his backstop then FiL will take better care of himself.

This ^

Neither you or your dh are comfortable with FIL staying for three months and you both know that there is no way on this earth that FIL exchanging and completing on his house, SIL finding, selling current house, exchanging and completing on both, ordering cabin, installing cabin in garden ready for FIL to move into is going to be done and dusted within three months. Therefore after the three month limit you have imposed FIL is going to have to move into rented accommodation either near you or in Skegness near your SIL, no doubt you will be guilt tripped into letting him stay just another few weeks and on and on it will go. There is no way his sale and SIL's purchase are going to neatly tie together.

Seriously, for the sake of you, your dh and more especially your children, and your FIL you should revoke the offer of him staying with you at all. If he stays with you the pressure on you and dh and the resentment will build so when he does eventually go your relationship will be fractured beyond repair anyway. The impact on your children needs to be considered as well, how are they going to feel when your FIL stays with you and then goes? It's going to be really difficult and hurtful for them, to say nothing of how their lives will have to be adapted and altered in order for him to stay, they too are making sacrifices and for what?

Far better to say now that it is in the best interests of you, dh, children and FIL for FIL to go into rented accommodation as soon as his house is completely sold, either near you or in Skegness, whilst you still have some semblance of a decent relationship and you can wish him well for his future, a clean break instead of a long drawn out goodbye. I know you will be accused of sour grapes or jealousy or whatever and not being willing to help, far better that now than what will come to pass when he stays with you. Can you really see yourselves forcing him to move out after three months with nowhere to go? Or will you as everyone in the family knows feel obliged to let him stay for longer and longer, at your expense both financially and mentally?

This is FIL's decision, he needs to own the consequences of it and the quite frankly nasty, duplicitous way he chose to go about it.

I don't think FIL moving in with you is in the best interests of any of you, not you, not DH, not FIL, not your kids.

I think this is coming from a misplaced sense of duty on the part of DH for which all parties will suffer. You do not have to agree to this OP.

On the plus side, SIL will benefit if FIL moves in. She is the only winner here and I'm not sure why DH is effectively colluding with her.

It’s so difficult when it comes to parents because it’s only natural to not want to hurt them
do you see this as a hierarchical relationship where you have to unconditionally obey them, or is it a relationship of equals where you treat them well and they treat you well?

@BRB2021

I hope DH realises that when he "throws his dad out" (this will be the spin put on it) he will be the bad guy. The very overused but true expression 'no good deed goes unpunished' will be clearly seen.

So all your kindness and patience in giving up your slobby choccy days will not be appreciated or even remembered.

This x 100.

That's why you should have already started calling your SIL greedy who has "thrown her dad out of his house so she can get a bigger house". Start doing it now! Why wait for them to start name calling you?

There is no point arguing with peole who have their mind set on something. Once you know that, you are free to make your own decisions and present your own reality as the status quo.

OP you don’t have to have FIL to stay. This isn’t a man with no money or so elderly he can’t look after himself. You and your DH have gotten into a train of thought that “it’s family, we can’t turn him away”, and aren’t using your common sense. He has money (plenty! Just sold his house!), is a sprightly 65, and likes to be house proud and clean the house. You also aren’t keen on an extended guest (‘dreading it’).

All of these means FIL has the means and resources to stay elsewhere.

You guys are acting like martyrs like “we have to have him stay” and “it will be so awful”. In fact, you are now acting like your FIL is. Everyone else on here can see this is a bad idea and is suggesting you rescind the invite (but keep supporting him emotionally) and you say “we can’t it’s family, even though I dread it”. It’s exactly like you saying to your FIL, this is a bad idea, get legal advice, and he says “no, all good”.

Just to add to my last post - the irony is both you and FIL think you are doing a good deed, but everyone can see both things will end in disaster!

just spotted your recent post. Apologies.
It’s not our place to speak to solicitors etc, that’s his job because we aren’t responsible for him. We’ve advised him more than once to seek legal advice, he’s laughed it off and so that’s his choice
Is that what FIL says , it’s not your place? or what you both think?
Anything that affects you,your DH and DC becomes “your place” the moment he involves you in this poorly thought out plan, which rests on watching him impoverish himself And moving in with you for what could easily be an extended period.

It is in your interests and it’s safeguarding FIL to get proper facts and advice from solicitor or age concern or anywhere, rather than the half truths or ignorant self-interested suppositions of SIL and FIL.

You and DH are being emotionallly blackmailed and it’s really unfair.
Several PPs have said you will end up as the villain when you start talking about him moving out in Three months. And all the issues beyond that when he has gone from independence to dependence on his DCs, It’s better to stand up to them now while he still has room for manoeuvre.

FIL is probably saying the same thing you are - “my daughter is family, I can’t let her down and not see her in a bigger house”, not seeing there are plenty of alternative options.

You are the same - you won’t see the alternate options to having him to stay either!

By letting FIL move in, DH's relationship with him will get worse and not better and it will likely all end in tears with DH cast as the bad guy. Maybe DH could use some counselling to help him manage this tricky relationship and realise that not allowing FIL to move in doesn't make him a bad son.

@ThornAmongstRoses

You've mentioned this many times - so I wonder how your DH feels about his wife being (rightly) very worried, and why he's prioritising FIL's possibly injured feelings over yours?

I know he would do the exact same thing for me if the tables were flipped and it was one of my parents who needed putting up. It’s so difficult when it comes to parents because it’s only natural to not want to hurt them.

My DH knows I’m not overjoyed about the situation but I will put up with it for his sake, just as he would do for my sake.

I’ve told him though that if any point our marriage or children are negatively affected then he will have to tell FIL to leave.

If you really want to do this you need to change your mindset about this. You now don’t want to do it, but are going to whine and feel miserable from the get go and that will put a strain on your marriage.

As you know I think you should say no, but if you want to go foreward with it you need to be more positive, accept that it is what it is and make yourself a little 90 day calendar to cross of the days.

He has told us he will only stay for 3 months and me and DH will be talking to him throughout about what progress is happening and after 1.5 months we will be taking him that he needs to start looking for somewhere to rent.

I actually think that - and I know you say it's a do e deal, etc - but that this is the plan that will lead to the most upset for you all - you, DH and FIL. And for your DC.

If SIL hasn't even found a house to offer on yet, it is silly to think that anything could be done within 3 months. Most AST contracts on rental properties are 6 months minimum. It would be much more sensible all round if your FIL rented a property in Skegness near to SIL from the time that his house is sold. That will give him the chance to be involved in the house-hunting decisions with SIL (and to change his mind if it goes poorly!) It will give everyone a fixed deadline to work towards for getting his housing sorted. He will be able to extend it past 6 months on a month-by-month rolling basis, whereas if he moves in with you for 3 months and THEN has to look for a rental, he will be committed to a full 6 months tenancy from that point. He won't need to pay for storage if he has somewhere of his own to rent. He can get used to the area in Skegness etc.

I think all these points ought to be the ones that you and your DH think over carefully and then put to him calmly. Maybe not immediately, but in a couple of weeks or so.

Do not approach it from the point of view of what you and DH would prefer. Approach it from the point of view of what is most sensible to help FIL achieve his aim of moving to Skegness with the least disruption and financial cost.

You want to make sure that FIL feels he can come back and has your support if the Skegness plan doesn't work out. So you need to be onboard with his aim, but not necessarily agree to collaborate with putting him up in your house for months so he can do it.

@ThornAmongstRoses

I’m really, really going to miss my time alone. I have two days a week where I’m home alone for 6 hours and it’s what I survive the week for.

The rest of my time is taken up with work, the children, studying for a degree, general house stuff and volunteer work and my two days where I can just relax are what keep me going.

Don’t get me wrong, I know a lot of people don’t even have that time to themselves so I’m grateful of it.....but the thought of losing it is what I’m dreading. Sometimes during those days I just slob around in my pyjama bottoms, binge on crap TV, refuse to do any housework and eat lots of chocolate. But most of all I enjoy the quiet and nobody needing my attention.

I feel horrible saying all this, but it’s how I feel

I think you and your husband are being far too deferential and reticent, given the huge impact this will have on you and your family.

But you need to budget for some motel rooms, spa days or whatever to replace your alone time. Ask him for a stipend you can use to pay for it.

This is all so bizarre. Please keep us posted.

Even though I understand how you and your DH feel about having to put up FIL the more I think about it the better it is to just tell him no.

I would break it to him like this:

It's not going to take 3 months (show him the timeline) and it will be so much harder on the children to go from living with granddad to hardly ever seeing granddad.

It's just better for everyone if he moves to Skegness once his house is sold. Rip the bandaid off.

That way he can help SIL find a new house and sort out any planning permissions from there. SIL and her partner have to work and have kids so it will all go faster if he is there and involved.

(Once there he might see how unrealistic it all is.)

It will save you lots of headaches, it will save FIL a lot of grieve and it might save the relationship DH and FIL have.

Presumably your FIL has a lot of household stuff, furniture, etc., on a practical level what is going to happen to all this when he moves in with you? Does he expect to bring his favourite armchair, ornaments, and put them in your lounge? What about other things he is attached to, likes to use on a daily basis? Where is his stuff going? Are you going to be expected to store it until the great move? If not he will have to hire a storage facility (they are not cheap for the size he would require for a house full of stuff), if he's going to do that he may as well save that outlay and move straight into rented accommodation.

This idea of him living with you for months or even years on end, which it will inevitably turn out to be whilst SIL pockets the £90k and then asks for more, is not feasible on any level - emotionally, financially and practically.

This is NOT in any way the same as helping out a family member or parent who finds themselves in dire or difficult circumstances, this is a selfish choice and one which you are being browbeaten and guilt tripped into enabling.

I’ve told him though that if any point our marriage or children are negatively affected then he will have to tell FIL to leave

Good luck with that, OP; as I'm sure you're aware, these things have a habit of "creeping up" rather than the effects hitting you all at once, besides which you've explained already that the DCs will be negatively impacted

If this goes ahead I predict you'll be hearing an awful lot of "If you can just ...", "I'm sure he didn't mean it like that ..." and so on, and if you can put up with that for the sake of some imagined quid pro quo, you're a better woman than me

I don’t think he should stay for 3 months; he’s made his bed.