Inheritance issues - part 2. AKA: Is FIL being manipulated and ripped off?

[ThornAmongstRoses]

This thread is for those who helped me on my previous thread about my FIL upping sticks, handing his a big chunk off his money over to his daughter to ultimately live in her garden. Sorry but I don’t know how to link to my previous thread.

The update from what happened last night when we confronted FIL with our concerns:

“And it turns out that SIL is 14 weeks pregnant.

Apparently when she and her partner first suggested the Cabin idea 6 months or so ago and FIL declined and said he was happy to buy somewhere so he wouldn’t be under their feet, she told him not to be silly as the arrangement would work out really well for all involved as she and her partner were hoping to have more children in the future but that they wouldn’t be able to unless they had a bigger house anyway. SIL then told him how much it would mean to her and how wonderful it would be for FIL to be around to watch new grandchildren be born and see them grow up, liked he’d been around when DB (my husband) had had his children. FIL then agreed that it would be really nice to be around for early days and from then onwards, and agreed it was something he would happy be to look into.

Anyway, it looks like SIL took that as him being board and to cut a long story short, she told FIL she was pregnant about 3 months ago but told him not to tell anyone as it was such early days (her prerogative so that’s fine). Anyhow, it appears that is why FIL put his house up for sale and sold it quickly so the new house could be bought in time for the baby’s arrival. Bit strange really seeing as the baby generally stays with the parents in their room for a good 6 months or so, but that’s the story FIL gave. Stinks of manipulation to me but FIL is clearly happy with what’s happened and he does seem excited about the idea of being around for the new baby.

We asked him what would become of the Cabin if he passed away and he said that wasn’t his problem (with a smile) and said that SIL and her partner could do whatever they liked with it.

He hasn’t looked into anything legal as he didn’t think it was necessary. We did advise it (and gave examples from this thread as reasons why he should) but he told us we are worrying unnecessarily. So that’s his choice to make.

We asked him about the time scale of him staying here which was slightly awkward but he promised us again he would only be here for a few months. We said that was unlikely and explained why (all the issues raised in this thread) but he said things would be moving along quickly and if there are any delays he would move out and rent somewhere near us until the cabin is built. I asked why he wasn’t going to rent over there to make sure he liked the area, but he said he wanted to spend as much time as he could with us before he moved away.

So yes, he seems to be going into this with an awareness of all the ins and outs and is happy to go along with it all, so that’s that. It’s all his decision and if he doesn’t take legal advice then that too is his choice.

We have told him we won’t be taking the offered £25k but thanked him for his offer. As has been said on this thread, he’s probably going to need a back-up fund.

FIL left about an hour ago and me and DH are off to bed now with a film as we feel drained. I just wanted to update you as I’ve had so much help and advice from you all.”

I had a PM this morning from a poster who had wanted to respond to my post last night but realised the thread was full so answered privately instead.

Anyhow - I just wanted to start a second thread as I’m sure others have lots of further advice based on my FIL’s revelation, and also because I doubt this is the end of the matter.

Me and DH struggled to sleep last night but we see it’s a done deal now and due to the pregnancy we know FIL isn’t going to back out the deal so now it’s a case of trying to get him to protect himself as best as he can.

Just seen your update, I guess now the emotions are out in the open, the best way you can help him is on the practical and the legal protection.
I think it would all be ok if he dropped the cabin idea and bought a place of his own near them.
It gives him options if it doesn't work out.
He doesn't need to hand over his cash for his daughter to feel she matters , heartbreaking that he thinks he needs to do this grand gesture that will unfortunately soon be forgotten and could leave him sad and skint .
I'm so sorry for you going through this.

How did you go with pointing out all the legal and financial ramifications to him, @ThornAmongstRoses - or did he not give you the chance?

Feel quite sad reading your update OP it does sound like he has been emotionally manipulated.

Agree with the 2 posts above, hopefully he will listen or seek legal advice which will confirm the legal risks to the plan.

There are many ways to show his daughter she matters just as much. Putting his own future in jeopardy really shouldn't, and doesn't need to be, one of them.
Poor bloke :(

So he can be there for his manipulative DD by buying himself a nice property, suitable to his needs, nearby. Without all the emotional manipulation and depletion of his assets by buying a new home for her and her unpleasant DP.

He's not bloody leaving you though is he?

I don't get all this talk as if it's his son or his daughter.

Of course it's obvious that his son would be upset by his lying about living nearby when he seemingly had no intention to.

It's understandable that he might want to work things out with his daughter.

But he doesn't have to live in her garden to do so!

And if he thinks he does then tbh he's an utter fool!

At this rate he'll end up with no daughter as they'll fall out over the new house/cabin & no son because he's burnt his bridges there.

All he had to do was say that he preferred to retire to the coast (in his own place) & wanted to visit/be visited as much as possible.

Did he say anything about the crackpot idea about the shed in the garden? The legalities? Deprivation of assets? What would happen if SIL and her DP split up?

Did you talk about any of the practicalities?

TBH it is up to FIL about where he wants to live in his retirement. The way he is going about it, shed in back garden rather than buying his own property, is just simply foolish

There’s no fool like an old fool...
He’s deluding himself. If he wants to move there fine but seriously should protect himself a little by just buying a small property instead of a shed

Are you still allowing him to move in with you for the next year or two?

FIL won’t take on board anything I’ve said about the legal aspects, just keeps telling me there’s no need to worry about him. That’s his lookout I suppose - he’s a grown man, mentally capable of making his own decisions and if he wants to bury his head in the sand then that’s his choice.

Hello Thorn . What a mess and so confusing for you all, emotionally and otherwise.
What was your Fil response to being told that he can't live with you while he is temporarily homeless?

@ThornAmongstRoses

FIL won’t take on board anything I’ve said about the legal aspects, just keeps telling me there’s no need to worry about him. That’s his lookout I suppose - he’s a grown man, mentally capable of making his own decisions and if he wants to bury his head in the sand then that’s his choice.

I wonder if he knows what he's doing but somehow this way he "blames" his daughter.

Is she likely to have said "I'll only take your money if you live in the garden & spend the rest of your money to do it"?

Or is he likely to have said "I'll only give you the money if I can live with you?"

Maybe this way they both to some extent get what they want?(or think they do?)

Why not call family meeting with DH SIL BIL and FIL. Their reluctance to attend will speak louder than words and as they have already gone behind your backs shows they don’t care about upsetting you. Make notes of all the questions you want answers to.

FIL will see how things are for himself.

I wonder if FIL has fooled himself into thinking it's not as bad for your DH if it's a package deal with one property. As opposed to if FIL buys himself a property and also helps SIL buy a bigger house, which she now needs as -oops - pregnant already!

So idea then was that FIL move in to same house so only one property bought. But the DP said no way in hell, this leading to the cabin in garden idea.

Huge mess, and FIL is walking straight into it. Ugh. It's like watching one of those cartoons where they run off the side of a cliff and take a minute to realize there's no solid ground anymore 🙈

I think my response to him saying not to worry about him would be that actually your worry is about yourselves having to sort all the shit out if it goes tits up, and step in if he ends up without enough to buy a home!

And also he is a complete idiot. The secrecy has made your DH feel worse - why did he think delaying telling him would be better? He didn't, he just knew you'd poke holes in his logic.

@ThornAmongstRoses I'm so sorry - this must all be so distressing and worrying for you both.
I've been through it with my DM. It really takes a toll.

To be honest I just feel done with it

FIL knows we have said he can stay here for 3 months and that’s it - just like he initially told us it would be. We do not have enough room for him, we are having to sacrifice two of our rooms to accommodate him and it’s just not practical long term.

I won’t lie, I’m dreading it - I like my own space and I am not at all looking forward to having someone here 24/7 but that’s done now.

He has told us he will only stay for 3 months and me and DH will be talking to him throughout about what progress is happening and after 1.5 months we will be taking him that he needs to start looking for somewhere to rent.

After that, it’s all his own doing. It’s not our place to speak to solicitors etc, that’s his job because we aren’t responsible for him. We’ve advised him more than once to seek legal advice, he’s laughed it off and so that’s his choice.

I really like my FIL but sometimes people have to be left to their own stupidity and deal with the consequences of it if their refuse to listen to others.

That sounds heartless I know, but he’s made his choice so apart from voicing our concerns its his business and when he sees how disastrous it turns out to be then he’ll have to accept he made the wrong decision.

@ThornAmongstRoses

FIL won’t take on board anything I’ve said about the legal aspects, just keeps telling me there’s no need to worry about him. That’s his lookout I suppose - he’s a grown man, mentally capable of making his own decisions and if he wants to bury his head in the sand then that’s his choice.

Well he is just really, really stupid then.

The legal hoops you have to go through with just a 'normal' house purchase, let alone one with planning permission for a separate dwelling, 'gifting' a substantial amount of money to an unmarried couple for the main house yet not being on the deeds. It is genuine lunacy

Not sure he's as 'nice' as you think OP.

After 3 months, you might be delighted for him to move far away.

Well I would go the other way and completely not mention the situation or his finances whilst he is with you, he’s loving the drama.

You are a better person than I OP, I wouldn't be putting him up and I wouldn't still be thinking he is lovely or nice. He has treated you and his son very very shabbily, the kindest interpretation is that he is frankly not very bright and has zero emotional intelligence to boot. I'd be interpreting it less kindly if it were me.

Doesn't sound heartless at all.

I thought that he was being told that he couldn't stay at all?

I wouldn't have him.

It'll be three months of misery!

Not sure he's as 'nice' as you think OP. After 3 months, you might be delighted for him to move far away.

He comes in holiday with us twice a year and sometimes even that can lead to us clashing heads every now and then, and that’s when we have separate hotel rooms to escape too.

It’s going to be difficult. I really do like him, and he’s a great support to us in lots of ways....but living with someone is a different matter entirely isn’t it.

@ThornAmongstRoses you poor thing. You sound so tired of it all, not surprisingly. But now you need to get tough.

As many PPs have said, you need to put your foot down and tell FiL that he cannot stay with you because it will be too upsetting for the kids and too disruptive for your work. Your FiL has lied to you all and this is the consequence. It is completely unfair to get your kids used to grandad being around 24/7 and then him leaving. And it will be impossible for you to work properly with no desk/office. The stress of trying to dissuade him, trying to ignore the stupid things he’s doing, trying to cope with him living with you and ignoring reality - all this will be massively stressful on your family and home life.

Your home should be a haven. Your FiLs bullshit plan will dominate your life if he moves in. Protect yourself, your marriage and your kids.

As you are not accepting the £25K on offer, he could use some of that to rent a flat - near you if he wants or in Skegness if he wants to move early. But do not sacrifice your happiness because your DH made a commitment based on your FiLs lies.