Inheritance issues - part 2. AKA: Is FIL being manipulated and ripped off?

[ThornAmongstRoses]

This thread is for those who helped me on my previous thread about my FIL upping sticks, handing his a big chunk off his money over to his daughter to ultimately live in her garden. Sorry but I don’t know how to link to my previous thread.

The update from what happened last night when we confronted FIL with our concerns:

“And it turns out that SIL is 14 weeks pregnant.

Apparently when she and her partner first suggested the Cabin idea 6 months or so ago and FIL declined and said he was happy to buy somewhere so he wouldn’t be under their feet, she told him not to be silly as the arrangement would work out really well for all involved as she and her partner were hoping to have more children in the future but that they wouldn’t be able to unless they had a bigger house anyway. SIL then told him how much it would mean to her and how wonderful it would be for FIL to be around to watch new grandchildren be born and see them grow up, liked he’d been around when DB (my husband) had had his children. FIL then agreed that it would be really nice to be around for early days and from then onwards, and agreed it was something he would happy be to look into.

Anyway, it looks like SIL took that as him being board and to cut a long story short, she told FIL she was pregnant about 3 months ago but told him not to tell anyone as it was such early days (her prerogative so that’s fine). Anyhow, it appears that is why FIL put his house up for sale and sold it quickly so the new house could be bought in time for the baby’s arrival. Bit strange really seeing as the baby generally stays with the parents in their room for a good 6 months or so, but that’s the story FIL gave. Stinks of manipulation to me but FIL is clearly happy with what’s happened and he does seem excited about the idea of being around for the new baby.

We asked him what would become of the Cabin if he passed away and he said that wasn’t his problem (with a smile) and said that SIL and her partner could do whatever they liked with it.

He hasn’t looked into anything legal as he didn’t think it was necessary. We did advise it (and gave examples from this thread as reasons why he should) but he told us we are worrying unnecessarily. So that’s his choice to make.

We asked him about the time scale of him staying here which was slightly awkward but he promised us again he would only be here for a few months. We said that was unlikely and explained why (all the issues raised in this thread) but he said things would be moving along quickly and if there are any delays he would move out and rent somewhere near us until the cabin is built. I asked why he wasn’t going to rent over there to make sure he liked the area, but he said he wanted to spend as much time as he could with us before he moved away.

So yes, he seems to be going into this with an awareness of all the ins and outs and is happy to go along with it all, so that’s that. It’s all his decision and if he doesn’t take legal advice then that too is his choice.

We have told him we won’t be taking the offered £25k but thanked him for his offer. As has been said on this thread, he’s probably going to need a back-up fund.

FIL left about an hour ago and me and DH are off to bed now with a film as we feel drained. I just wanted to update you as I’ve had so much help and advice from you all.”

I had a PM this morning from a poster who had wanted to respond to my post last night but realised the thread was full so answered privately instead.

Anyhow - I just wanted to start a second thread as I’m sure others have lots of further advice based on my FIL’s revelation, and also because I doubt this is the end of the matter.

Me and DH struggled to sleep last night but we see it’s a done deal now and due to the pregnancy we know FIL isn’t going to back out the deal so now it’s a case of trying to get him to protect himself as best as he can.

You can change things, if he hasn’t handed the money to her yet as I assume he hasn’t as he’s still living at his house. Ask him to reconsider!

We can’t change anything so there’s no point us getting so stressed over it.

You actually can change some things, when you and DH decide whether or not a stay in your home is allowed to become part of this silly plan. You can't control what your FiL does but you can decide to limit the damage to yourselves and your family.

@ThornAmongstRoses

I think it might be good to leave it for a while and let things settle.

Everyone saying just leave him to his fate, it's all well and good but in reality you and DH won't let FIL be homeless and will end up with him living with you when it all goes tits up.

It wouldn't even be about how unfair he is treating his children re inheritance, it's his money to do with as he wishes, but he is effectively giving away ALL his capital and expecting you to put him up. It's not on and very cruel to your children.

Best wishes

@CraftyYankee

Such a hard situation. The part that really doesn't make any sense is the cabin in the garden. Can you ask FIL for clarification on that part? Why isn't he getting his own property? If he really wants to be that close to his daughter, buy two properties next door to each other! At least then there would be resale value!

This way SiL gets 90k to put into her shiny new house and £100k or so added to its value when the cabin is done. Lucky SiL.

[quote Whatamesssss]@ThornAmongstRoses

I think it might be good to leave it for a while and let things settle.

Everyone saying just leave him to his fate, it's all well and good but in reality you and DH won't let FIL be homeless and will end up with him living with you when it all goes tits up.

It wouldn't even be about how unfair he is treating his children re inheritance, it's his money to do with as he wishes, but he is effectively giving away ALL his capital and expecting you to put him up. It's not on and very cruel to your children.

Best wishes[/quote]
No, you stick to your guns then and leave FIL to sort himself out and say he should've got proper legal advice in the first place before blindly blundering into a stupid situation.

In your DH’s place, I would tell my parent and separately my sister that I do not support this because it is a financially unsound plan which could easily leave your father in a terrible predicament, unable to care for himself in his older years. This is not a sound plan.

Clearly they all know this and that’s why it was kept a secret. I’d have no hesitation in saying so.

What happens if circumstances change for SIL and/or BIL? Job loss, a health problem, an injury, divorce, death? We all should be planning for unexpected difficulties.

What happens if FIL’s health changes?

What happens if he just doesn’t enjoy living there? Sounds like he never even visited before, how do they know if they can even get along, when they never did in the past living long distance.

I’m also a big manipulative jerk, because I would let my kids know he’s planning to move away and let them harass him about not getting to see him much going forward. This isn’t about your kids vs. her kids. It’s about children who know him and have him in their daily lives vs. ones who do not really know at all that won’t miss him.

Oh, I’d also be telling them they should buy their own effing house, like grown-ups do instead of taking advantage of a retired, widowed parent.

@ThornAmongstRoses

Surely when the house went on the market OPs DH said right Dad where are you moving to, what's the plan, do you want us to look on rightmove, do you want us to come along to the viewings? How could you not have had these conversations with a parent that you see multiple times a week. They say they were under the impression he was going to move locally, what reason did he give them for moving then?

General time scale....

Time scale.

On a Monday: Out of the blue he tells us that he’s putting his house up for sale.
On the Wednesday: He had the house valued.
On the Thursday: The house advert went on the website.
Across Sat/Sun: FIL had 5 viewings.
The next Monday: He tells us he’s sold the house.

(I can’t remember the exact days things happened but it was in that short a time frame)

So that’s how quick and surprising it was. Since the passing of MIL he had been saying the house was too big for him so we didn’t think he’d stay there forever, but the way it all happened, with such speed, was very unexpected and confusing to us.

Over the following week or so we spoke to him about where he was thinking of going and he kept saying he wasn’t sure, he just wanted something smaller. We told him he needed to start looking and he told us he’d seen houses in our local area on various estate agent websites but he just wasn’t sure exactly what he wanted. We urged him to get booking some visits and that if he wanted us to then we would go and look at the them with him. A few days after that he came over and told us he still hasn’t seen anything he’s really interested in and and said he was going to rent somewhere nearby in the meantime so he doesn’t rush into purchasing a house he isn’t completely sure about. DH then says that renting is wasted money and if he needs somewhere to stay for a few months in between houses then he can stay with us. FIL thanked us but was very non-committal. The next day he then came round, dropped the bombshell on us and then says he’d like to take us up on the offer of staying with us whilst everything gets sorted.

So he sold his house 2 months ago but only last week told you he was going to live with his daughterr, while in the meantime you were under the misapprehension he was planning to live near you. Two months is a long time to not have viewed any houses when his own sale is going through in April, you must have wondered a bit what was going on?

As your DH offered to put him up rather than it being FIL's request it makes withdrawing your offer slighly more awkward. Saying that as your DH wasn't aware of the long term plan about him relocating to live with his sister it seems reasonable to say as his plans have changed so have yours. I bet your DH wishes he hadn't offered to let him stay.

I think your DH should talk to his dad & tell him how hurt he is, that SIL has never made an effort & they aren't close. In his view she is only interested in the windfall, this chalet is a shit idea, he will lose all his money & there are all sorts of logistical problems. as mentioned up thread
Some one is lying here, & he wants to know just what is going on.
It is a major decision done on the sly. It stinks. Not to mention ruining your relationship, with or without the financial element

It’s obvious that SIL and her partner don’t really want FIL to live with them or they would simply buy a house which already has an annexe. They are counting on FIL living with op and her dh for the foreseeable future
They will take the money for the new , larger house and the annexe will never materialise

What a terrible muddle all of this is. Its all very well stating its his money and at 65 he is more than capable of deciding what he wants etc but its YOU who will be dealing with the immediate fall out of this by letting him come and live with you for potentially months and months whilst a house is found, cabin is built etc etc. It could be 9 months-1 year! What is SIL buys a house and cannot get planning?

As another PP said - this is a financially unsound plan and at the very least your FIL needs to get some objective advice. Often close relatives dont like to appear as though they are being told what to do by the young ones.

But the voice of experience here - you WILL become very heavily involved with this. The fall out could be that he is homeless, or your SIL splits or he doesnt like the arrangement.

What about getting him some time with a solicitor to run through the reality of what he is doing. Ideally with you there but if not on his own. No solicitor would agree that this is a good way of doing things.

Your FIL can make his own decisions, but he can't force some of them on you.

I think your DF is right to say he can't stay. You have no idea how long it would be. Also, doesn't it make sense for him to be on the spot in Skegness so he can look at properties with them, and get used to being in each others company all the time? Back your DH up.

This way SiL gets 90k to put into her shiny new house and £100k or so added to its value when the cabin is done. Lucky SiL

No she doesn’t. The cabin won’t add anything to the value of the house. It would probably detract from its appeal to prospective buyers. That’s why this scheme is utterly bonkers - literally nobody benefits from it.

I would be concerned with the actual amount of time he will end up living with you. A few months can very soon become several months. If your SiL hasn't even started her search yet, possibly not even got a mortgage offer due to waiting for her promotion, which may be delayed due to pregnancy. Then applying for planning permission, then waiting for the cabin to be built. You could be housing you FiL for a year or more.

I would be having a serious conversation with him pointing out that a couple of months is one thing, set out a timescale for him to show the reality of the situation, If he already has a completion date on his house, I would tell him he needs to rent somewhere until his cabin is ready, as much as you love him, it is untenable to be in a situation where you have no idea how long he will be staying with you, and how it affects the way you live in your home. It will be a tough conversation, but if you actually draw the timeline, he may start to understand what is being asked if you. He is only a couple of years older than me, there is no way on this earth I would leave myself with no assets, I still have a lot of living to do.

Does FIL realise planning permission will be needed to build a lodge and permission to then live in it.

Would he not be better to invest his money and live in the house with SIL and family. They could purchase as tenants in common and protect his investment so that when he dies 50% could go to SIL and 50% to DH.

@ThornAmongstRoses

Thanks everyone. I’m mentally drained by it.

I don’t trust anything she says. All the promotion, the pregnancy, the cabin, everything, I think it all just smells of bullshit personally.

I have no idea what her motives are but obviously FIL can’t see any ulterior ones so he can do what he likes.

Like a few people have said, it’s a complete shit show.

The motive is a bigger house. This is the only way they can afford it. A few years down the line the planning permission for the "cabin" will have been refused. They can't possible move again because everyone is settled and its too expensive/stressful. But it's ok, he'll have been with you for a couple of years so may as well stay. That's my take on it. Good for your husband for telling his dad he can no longer stay.

If FIL is "only" handing over the 90,000 though, when the cabin doesn't happen, he'll still have money to buy somewhere.

@diddl

If FIL is "only" handing over the 90,000 though, when the cabin doesn't happen, he'll still have money to buy somewhere.

Isn't the cabin money in an account managed by the SIL? Or have I misunderstood?

🔮 I can predict the future. Sil gets that money and decides fil cannot move in and will be made homeless. Well, he’s not in the deeds is he? Then you’ll be stuck with fil at yours after he invited himself. Complete shambles. All the lying and deceit though. I hope you dh does tell him he cannot stay.

"Isn't the cabin money in an account managed by the SIL? Or have I misunderstood?"

I think that as his house has only just been sold it might not even be in his account yet.

My point is there's nothing to stop him sorting out the cabin side of things himself.

The cabin idea is ridiculous, for those prices he could buy a small house/flat and that would at least give him some protection.

Best case scenario I can see is SIL gets the 90k then pulls out of the deal before your FIL actually puts money into the cabin.

Worst case scenario, she gets the 90k and cabin built, then they make it too awkward for him to live there and he's left with nothing.

I can't understand why they have dreamt up the cabin idea, do they have another motive for it? Home office/ gym perhaps?

@ThornAmongstRoses I think it's best your FIL doesn't stay with you, as you and DH need some distance from the inevitable drawn out stressful period that is about to ensue. You just don't need that!

I can understand your DH's high emotion - anger, distrust, feeling excluded & sidelined, with an over-riding worry about his dad's future.
Not letting FIL move in with you I think is the right thing for both of you, and your children. Also, it will force FIL to live his decisions, and take action regarding his own accommodation. It will be a chance for a pause and reality check for him.

Good to see your planning on not letting your FIL stay at your house, that is the sensible thing to do at this point.

I can't understand why they have dreamt up the cabin idea, do they have another motive for it? Home office/ gym perhaps?

Stupidity? A mate who owns a cabin company who’ll give them a backhander? Airbnb? Fuck knows how these idiots’ minds work.

Surely it's to justify the gift of £90k to allow the purchase of the bigger house they wouldn't otherwise be able to afford.