Y7 disgusting comments

[ShinyGreenElephant]

I'm 99% sure I'm not being unreasonable here but I'm SO angry and could do with some perspective/ advice.

A boy in my DD12s class has said to her today "shut your legs, your fanny stinks". This was in front of a group of kids. Shes on her period today as well so it made her feel even more paranoid and she was really upset and humiliated. A few of the boys laughed half-heartedly (all her boy mates have since said he was out of order but none of them said it at the time) and all the girls who were there went mad at him, DDs best friend slapped him across the face. DD called him an ugly little rat and walked away before he saw her crying but was then very upset and sobbing to the other girls. Shes been friends with this boy for years but hes recently turned on her a bit after hes asked her out twice and she said no. Nothing like this though.

DD told a teacher who told him off, but he wasn't sent home and hasnt apologised. The school didn't inform me about the incident. Far as I'm concerned this is nowhere NEAR good enough - I've called them and told them as much and been told they will investigate and deal with it further.

Can anyone advise on what my next steps should be? I'll be putting it all in writing tomorrow once they contact me with how they've dealt with it. What if its not good enough? Governors? What can I realistically expect - I will 100% need an apology and I want him suspended but not sure they would even tell me if he was.

Any advice welcome even if its to tell me I'm over reacting. I'm actually friends with his mum but won't contact her tonight at least as I'm so angry I know I won't be able to handle it well.

@Babdoc

Of course one does not approve of violence per se. But a female slapping a larger and more powerful male as a gesture of disapproval is very different to a male hitting a smaller and less powerful female. It should be very obvious (but apparently isn’t, to some faux outraged PPs) that the latter involves a risk of serious physical injury. The former, no - just hurt male pride.

You've got to be kidding. So now we're minimising women hitting men because women are smaller and therefore do less damage. Jesus Christ. It's no wonder men in physically abusive relationships rarely come forward is it.

Do not put female assault on men under the banner of feminism.

[quote bendmeoverbackwards]**@SushiYum my 3 DDs all go/went to single sex secondary schools and I am very glad they did. Of course there is an element of meanness or competitiveness among the girls but no more than in a mixed school.

I’m very glad they can be themselves without having to worry about potential comments from boys. My middle dd went to a girls grammar school and they all had great relationships with their teachers and had open discussions in class about anything and everything (think they once had a debate about the best period app). They could wear any colour bra under their school shirts without having to worry.

I feel so sorry for these girls who have to put up with inappropriate comments at school.[/quote]
You said you feel sorry for these girls who have to put up with inappropriate comments at school?

You know it works both ways, right?

Regarding the girl who slapped him - yes completely out of order and also needs to be dealt with. No excuse for ANY violence for whatever reason.

I’m not condoning it at all but I can understand why she did it, probably enraged that her friend had to put up with a horrible sexist comment and frustrated that boys can get away with this sort of behaviour.

@TwinkleStar88 would you care to elaborate?

Ime a 12-year-old boy is half the size of a 12-year-old girl !! Girls mature earlier than boys.

In fact when you see certain teens out and about the girls are big, strapping individuals and the boys weedy, concave-chested specimens. Can’t imagine how they fancy each other....

@bendmeoverbackwards oh that’s okay then, as long as she was ‘enraged’. Maybe when she gets older and she is ‘enraged’ that her boyfriend looked at another woman she can give him a smack. Or when he husband doesn’t do as he is told she can give him a damn good smacking too.

This thread is the pits. I’m so angry because I’ve seen female on male violence. It was 20 years ago and the attitude was ‘men can’t hurt women’ so to see women on here STILL pushing this bullshit is just beyond comprehension. I have to leave this thread in so frustrated. I hope none of your sons ever have to go through DV.

@bendmeoverbackwards

Regarding the girl who slapped him - yes completely out of order and also needs to be dealt with. No excuse for ANY violence for whatever reason.

I’m not condoning it at all but I can understand why she did it, probably enraged that her friend had to put up with a horrible sexist comment and frustrated that boys can get away with this sort of behaviour.

She did it because she thinks it’s OK to slap someone in the face . Needs education in just the same way as the boy does

Apologies, women can’t hurt men. Angry typing.

@Hamhockandmash yeah I've also witnessed the fallout from female violence against men, on more than one occasion actually in my old line of work and once in my personal life with a member of my family sustaining an injury from his GF that needed hospital treatment. I'm thoroughly disgusted by what some posters deem acceptable behaviour from the DDs friend.

[quote Hamhockandmash]@bendmeoverbackwards oh that’s okay then, as long as she was ‘enraged’. Maybe when she gets older and she is ‘enraged’ that her boyfriend looked at another woman she can give him a smack. Or when he husband doesn’t do as he is told she can give him a damn good smacking too.

This thread is the pits. I’m so angry because I’ve seen female on male violence. It was 20 years ago and the attitude was ‘men can’t hurt women’ so to see women on here STILL pushing this bullshit is just beyond comprehension. I have to leave this thread in so frustrated. I hope none of your sons ever have to go through DV.[/quote]
You misunderstand me - I am not condoning it or excusing it AT ALL, she should NOT have done it. No excuse for violence, ever. I am just saying I have some understanding WHY she did it.

What he said is vile and I'm sorry your DD was subjected to that. But he is 12- excluding him is disproportionate at his age. He needs to be punished yes, with detention, internal isolation and a sincere apology to your DD. He also needs a restorative approach where he is given an opportunity to learn what is wrong with what he said, and learn from his mistake.

*The misandry on this thread is shocking. This lad is a 12 year old CHILD ffs. Of course he said a shitty thing and no one is defending that, but some of you are sure as hell minimising the fact that he was physically assaulted by another student. And the OP - a teacher nonetheless the less - wants to REWARD this assault.

Fucking mumsnet at its worst*

I couldn't agree more!

They're doing to the lad exactly what she was worried would happen to her daughter ig it escalated, and he was physically assaulted on top of that!

Unreal

@ShinyGreenElephant you are a wonderful mum and of course it needs dealing with and calling out. Letting it go as “just a 12year old boy” is absolutely why women still have issues with some men.
The litmus test is if you were in a professional office, and someone said this to you, a woman, in front of colleagues, what would happen. I.e. if a male twanged your bra strap or undid it in front of others then it would be a police matter for sexual assault, no different for kids.

For all those saying 'women are smaller and can't really hurt men' - my DB's (routinely abusive) ex-partner threw a a hot/plugged in iron at him.

Male violence, as a category of behaviour, is of course a much bigger issue than female violence. That doesn't mean that individual acts of female violence are in any way more tolerable.

@hamhockandmash feel free to disagree. Wasn't condoning violence, rather applauding the confidence to stand up for a friend against outrageous behaviour in a scenario where the victim had very little power. Far easier to do nothing, and in doing so to embolden and reinforce this behaviour (alongside the approval of the likely laughing crowd). Boys need to understand that rejection is ok, and that violence (and these words were violence) is not an appropriate response. I believe that in this scenario the slap was the lesser of the evils on show, and the inactivity of the teacher suggests that this reaction was the only thing that might cause the young man to think again next time.

What an upsetting situation. I'm dealing with situations that have arisen with both boys and teachers in my daughter's school. Mostly because an open conversation with her about one incident led to her opening up about the way that a lot of the boys speak to the girls at school. Other girls have now come forward to add their stories, but so far I have heard nothing back from the school (I emailed the head of year)
This sounds just like the kind of thing she talks about the boys saying. I'm pretty sure there are girls that can be equally nasty, but in her particular class it's a group of boys and nearly always revolves around inappropriate comments re: periods, their bodies and relationships. I'm persisting with the school because I would want to know if my boys were behaving in this way. If I was the parent of the boy that verbally abused your daughter I would definitely want to know. If you know her well enough to talk about it I would.
All the girls in my daughter's year were kept in because someone had graffitied on the toilet wall the other day so I'm quite cross that my email about the boy's behaviour has seemingly been ignored.
Sorry to make that all about my situation - it just hit a nerve. No, you are not overreacting.

I believe that in this scenario the slap was the lesser of the evils on show, and the inactivity of the teacher suggests that this reaction was the only thing that might cause the young man to think again next time.

Thankfully most sane people (and I expect any legal system, anywhere in the world) think that physical assault is worse than name calling, whatever the sexes of the victim/perpetrator.

@childchestdoc the slap by the girl wasn't reported to the teacher, did you miss that part? It was in fact hidden and celebrated with a reward. Believe me if the teacher had known about the physical assault of a student then there would've been repercussions.

@childchestdoc I vehemently disagree. The fact that you think that what she did was justified is very depressing, the fact that you think it should be celebrated is shocking. Her friend could have used her words, but she chose to be physical. Odd that you condemn his ‘violent words’ but are fine with her violent actions.

This thread has been horribly derailed. Violence isn’t acceptable, but OP is not the parent of that friend. She is the parent of the girl who had a misogynistic slur thrown at her because she had the audacity to turn that same boy down.

There question really comes down to ‘should misogyny be treated as a hate crime’. It actually is in my city and I would like to see treated as such nationally too. Whatever the schools stance is on other hate crimes should mirror that for misogyny too. I am heartened to see that his peers have recognised the behaviour and called it out. It’s a very different world to what I grew up in (only 20 years ago) and when something like this happened to me on a larger scale, teachers did the whole ‘ignore him’ thing, parents told me to ‘keep my head up’ and friends laughed along with ‘the lads’, so this feels really positive. But we shouldn’t be minimising misogynistic comments as ‘a bit silly’ and ‘boys are like this’. It should be treated appropriately and nipped in the bud by people in authority, parents AND peers before it escalates into normal, every day usage.

"Boys need to understand that rejection is ok, and that violence (and these words were violence) is not an appropriate response..."

But girls DON'T need to know that violence is not an appropriate response?? Because the girl DID in fact respond with actual violence. But that's ok because she's a girl. Right?

@TrialOfStyle but OP DID reward the girl for her assault on the boy, regardless of not being her parent, she celebrated the fact that her daughters friend had assaulted a boy because she was offended on her behalf! OP therefore condoned the violence.

I really wonder what has gone wrong for some women to think that men being sexually abusive to women is ok or just not a big deal, and that it doesn’t even merit talking about. To think that the biggest, most worrying societal issue we face is a girl defending a bullies girl physically, as opposed to the sexual bullying. You do realise that people are more likely to react physically because of people like you, who don’t think the boys should face any other, more suitable consequences?

If we minused the slap, said it never happened—would it just be “get over it girls, boys will be boys”? Just take it, meh they’ll do worse to you in the future!

@thedancingbear

I believe that in this scenario the slap was the lesser of the evils on show, and the inactivity of the teacher suggests that this reaction was the only thing that might cause the young man to think again next time.

Thankfully most sane people (and I expect any legal system, anywhere in the world) think that physical assault is worse than name calling, whatever the sexes of the victim/perpetrator.

Both are wrong. Ranking them as one being worse than the other is not helpful. Some people suffer horrible verbal abuse resulting in much distress. Awful to give the message that’s it not too bad because it’s not physical.

If we minused the slap, said it never happened—would it just be “get over it girls, boys will be boys”? Just take it, meh they’ll do worse to you in the future!

Yeah, but the slap did happen though. The boy should get a punishment, a detention maybe, but the girl who slapped him should get a much stronger punishment such as suspension.

You cannot hit someone just because they insult you. You cannot hit someone just because they give you racist or sexist abuse. Violence is only permitted in self defence to a physical and immediate threat, and even then only to a reasonable and proportionate extent.