To be a true feminism, I need to address my own misandry?

[FerrisWheelTrain]

For example - are terms like LTB sexist?

'She has no concept of ‘I hate boys’ etc or ‘girls win/boys in the bin’ as I’ve heard in playgrounds I’ve worked in. I want this to continue as I believe this will lead to successful relationships when she is older. And same for DS at school.'

You're really over thinking this and seem confused.

You say you don't want her to start thinking that boys are awful.

Both boys and girls often split apart for a period in primary school. The boys are often pretty down on girls.

Then they grow up a bit and move on from that.

If she has no conception of any of this (somehow in a standard primary school) then why are you trying to make her play with a boy who keeps smashing her builds? It's not a sign of latent man hating it's a sign she doesn't like playing with kids who smash her stuff. Forcing her to play with him could well be counter productive.

I really think you're projecting and that's not good for anyone. Please work on your own self esteem first.

I don't know which of my posts you were replying to there recently OP

Glad you found it helpful @FerrisWheelTrain

We live in strange and interesting times, and when it comes to our children I feel it's a case of calm, balanced consistency as far as possible.

@MistressoftheDarkSide I do feel pretty proud of how she is right now - she doesn’t mAke assumptions based on race/gender etc - and I want her to value/build good relationships with everyone in her life. Her Dad is a fantastic male role model.

Good to hear

Time enough to consider things like feminism and more complicated things in the future when and if it crops up and is relevant.

that term already practices sex equality.

Please forgive me, but I'm going to practise a bit of grammar autocracy here ... practise, verb. practice, noun. pls ... : )

Sorry but everyone is quite lingo-heavy in the way they post on these feminist threads. It's actually off-putting to use an exclusive language. Be more inclusive you buggers/bitches/bastards/whatever.

A mild request.

@MistressoftheDarkSide - she’s related through my Dad to Mary Wollstonecraft - so she’s already read various books about women’s rights etc. But we can’t live in a world that demonises men, anymore than a world that demonises women. The issue is that women have typically been oppressed - but do we sometimes go too far in challenging the oppressor. Assuming they are all bad or have aggressive traits.

[quote FerrisWheelTrain]@MistressoftheDarkSide - she’s related through my Dad to Mary Wollstonecraft - so she’s already read various books about women’s rights etc. But we can’t live in a world that demonises men, anymore than a world that demonises women. The issue is that women have typically been oppressed - but do we sometimes go too far in challenging the oppressor. Assuming they are all bad or have aggressive traits.[/quote]
Who does? Are you ready to talk about your own misandry yet?

And of course if you're advocating absolute non-sexism with regards to women, you have to apply the same to men.

The question then being whether 'they' 'deserve' it.

Given the way their (undeserved) 'bias' ripples through all societies and times.

We can't unpick this. All we can do is be honest, speak up, allow each other to speak up, not be competitive, and be proactive in practice.

And we can't discriminate against men simply because of their sex.

I would say that I rather like men, and their directness, but I'm afraid that might seem I've been brainwashed by patriarchal conditioning (reinforced by matriarchal conditioning).

Sorry but I'm living this life for myself. Meeting individuals. People. Taking a view.

'But we can’t live in a world that demonises men, anymore than a world that demonises women. The issue is that women have typically been oppressed - but do we sometimes go too far in challenging the oppressor. Assuming they are all bad or have aggressive traits.'

Can you give some solid examples of the demonisation of men, and of when challenging the oppressor has gone too far?

[quote FerrisWheelTrain]@Deadringer - but DD has a very dominant personality, DS is far more reticent. That’s nothing to do with gender - that just how they are as people. The fact you’ve implied that they ARE behaving that way BECAUSE of their gender is far more telling.[/quote]
You are missing the point. I am not implying that your dc are behaving a certain way because of their gender, I didn't say anything about their behaviour, my point was YOUR expectations and hopes for them, are very stereotypical, based on their gender, although you can't seem to see it. Anyway Op i really think you are mostly talking nonsense, you are just throwing words around but you don't seem to really know what they mean. You need to get a dictionary and do lots of reading. I am going to have to hide this thread before my head melts.

Answer me this please. In a few years time, when your son goes out in to the world with his doll, and some other boy takes it and destroys it, will you force him to still play with the other boy because it is the nice thing to do?

but do we sometimes go too far in challenging the oppressor. Assuming they are all bad or have aggressive traits

Who assumes that? Most women have fathers, brothers, sons they love. They know full well that not all men are bad or aggressive. But neither should women be deflected by NAMALT.

You are wrong. When people advise LTB on here that is not general or referring to all men. That is advice to a particular poster in a particular situation
There hasn't been a leave all men post

@Parkerwhereareyou

that term already practices sex equality.

Please forgive me, but I'm going to practise a bit of grammar autocracy here ... practise, verb. practice, noun. pls ... : )

Sorry but everyone is quite lingo-heavy in the way they post on these feminist threads. It's actually off-putting to use an exclusive language. Be more inclusive you buggers/bitches/bastards/whatever.

A mild request.

I know the difference. Sometimes we make typos because we are distracted or tired or simply typing ferociously.

I hope it made you feel better.

*I know the difference. Sometimes we make typos because we are distracted or tired or simply typing ferociously.

I hope it made you feel better.*

Sorry ... a lot of people get it wrong ... and my point was more about the exclusive lingo on these feminist chats.

Not saying that you are in any way part of this, but in general I've noticed there is a kind of pleasure among 'professional' posters in showing off their feminist language and vocabulary.

I think this can be off-putting for women who might want to join in but feel less confident in using that language.

I'm not sure what you're asking- or why, and with what agenda. Your title and your comments are quite at odds with each other, and it seems you're being goady, which is such a surprise on this board......

@Parkerwhereareyou lovely posts. So a Parliamentary bill against misogyny ALSO includes misandry in its wording. Are we offended by DTB? Or the word ‘bitch’ - is it a misogynistic term? Similarly - LTB - what’s the good argument for this being acceptable? Or would it be better to judge each post on its merit, rather than to lump all men together as ‘bastards’. Of course it’s absolutely essential that we challenge abusive behaviour from men, but is the best way forward to assume he is a bastard?

I don’t care btw about any spelling/grammar etc - I usually have a small child climbing on me as I type! Everyone is welcome to have a say. And I apologise if i come across as goady or thoughts all over the place. They are and I’d had a glass of wine last night. I just like discussing things, and I value all your responses!

[quote FerrisWheelTrain]@Parkerwhereareyou lovely posts. So a Parliamentary bill against misogyny ALSO includes misandry in its wording. Are we offended by DTB? Or the word ‘bitch’ - is it a misogynistic term? Similarly - LTB - what’s the good argument for this being acceptable? Or would it be better to judge each post on its merit, rather than to lump all men together as ‘bastards’. Of course it’s absolutely essential that we challenge abusive behaviour from men, but is the best way forward to assume he is a bastard?[/quote]
But bastard isn't a gendered term, at least not where I live.

Bitch is an inherently gendered term and is used in a gendered way. It is misogynistic to call a woman a bitch. It is also misogynistic to call a man a bitch (the phrase "little bitch" is used by some people to mean "whiny" aka equating women with whining).

Perhaps even the fact that c**t is generally considered the most offensive general (ie. not specifically racist) swear word we have is a sign of misogyny - female genetalia is so offensive that we can't even use a word for it before the watershed.

@sbk28 quick dictionary definition says person, especially a man. But agree it’s not gender specific in origin. But cock, dickhead etc? But it’s overriding use on mumsnet is to assume the male is abusive. So is there a danger of us potentially assuming a male is abusive due to our stereotypical ideas on men - or are men commonly abusive?

I’m very interested to see how misogyny/misandry hate crime law will pan out.

[quote FerrisWheelTrain]@sbk28 quick dictionary definition says person, especially a man. But agree it’s not gender specific in origin. But cock, dickhead etc? But it’s overriding use on mumsnet is to assume the male is abusive. So is there a danger of us potentially assuming a male is abusive due to our stereotypical ideas on men - or are men commonly abusive?[/quote]
Yes, men are massively more commonly abusive. That’s why we have a huge problem with male violence in our society - including within the police.

[quote FerrisWheelTrain]@sbk28 quick dictionary definition says person, especially a man. But agree it’s not gender specific in origin. But cock, dickhead etc? But it’s overriding use on mumsnet is to assume the male is abusive. So is there a danger of us potentially assuming a male is abusive due to our stereotypical ideas on men - or are men commonly abusive?[/quote]
You do know that what you are reading is posters whose lives have become intolerable?

You are not reading about posters whose daily lives trot on comfortably, in the groove, doing their do!

You are reading the pain of failing relationships, on a forum where women come to share their experiences and seek support from other women and you are saying "Look, Mumsnet posters believe All Men Are Like That!!"

Behave!

We have seen that tactic so many times, scraping for comments to take off elsewhere and pereptuate the Myth of Mumsnet.

Go away!