Who was in the wrong? Care assistant or relative?

[GingerNinjer]

Relative visiting a patient in hospital (before Covid obviously). Care assistant asks patient if they want a cup of tea. Patient asks if relative can have one too. Care assistant knows she’s not meant to offer refreshments to relatives but thinks “what’s the harm it could do?” And agrees.
Care assistant takes two mugs of tea into patient and relative. Relative says the mug is a little too full. Care assistant says “you don’t have to drink it all”. Relative says “but I might spill it”. Care assistant gets narky, takes the mug to the sink and pours some tea out of the mug. Relative says there is tea dripping off the mug and it might stain her clothes. Care assistant rolls her eyes and cleans mug with a paper towel. Patient asks if they can have some biscuits. Care assistant goes off and returns with 2 packets of biscuits (each containing 3 biscuits). Relative says “there’s too many biscuits”. Care assistant says “leave what you don’t want”. Relative says “but it’s wasteful”. Care assistant says “then share one packet”. Patient says “there isn’t enough in one packet to share”. Care assistant says “the biscuits come in packs of 3, do you want them or not?” Relative says “can you take one biscuit away?” Care assistant says “no I’m busy now, just leave what you don’t want on the table”. Relative says “but it’s messy, crumbs will get everywhere”. Care assistant snaps and says “oh well!” And walks out.

Patient and relative complain about care assistant. Care assistant gets a talking to for a) giving refreshments to relatives and b) being rude to patient and relatives

YABU - care assistant was in the wrong
YANBU - care assistant did nothing wrong

@GingerNinjer You're not alone and it sucks that your good deed was launched right back at ya.
Think about the good stuff and fill your brain up with that.
I'm a HCA, working with older people. Most are lovely, some are absolute tools. Often, the other residents will hear or see what's happening and do the very British sign of disapproval - tut, very loudly - and it makes me smile. I'm willing to bet that your' lovely' relative's behavior was overhead and a few mental 'tuts' happened too.

I think it would be a real shame if this incident stopped the care assistant from being so caring. It sounds like the relative wanted a problem solving waitress/servant rather than someone to assist with the care of the patient. The relative could have dealt with the full mug and too many biscuits all by themself. And complaining about too many and then too few. Literally the care assistant couldn't win.

The relative was being unreasonable.

@BrumBoo

The relative would have needed their own hospital bed to have biscuits removed from certain orifices if this had been. That's why I don't work in care though. You weren't being unreasonable at all, not even the 'oh well'.

OP - I've worked in a couple of hospitals. I was warned by a surgeon I worked with that sooner or later someone would make a complaint about me, and that the odds were that it would be

a) totally vindictive

b) from someone I'd gone out of my way to help as much as I could, above and beyond the call of duty

c) not from a very sick person (people who are ill are just so bloody grateful to be taken care of . . .)

d) unavoidable, and, finally

e) about bugger all (as yours was) because people who are looking for something to complain about will find something, or provoke something, or manufacture something.

She said it would be very upsetting (and when it happened it was - and also all of the other points above).

Her other good advice was re:notes. Do them every day even if you have to stay back to complete them. Keep them neat. concise and clear. And most important NEVER WRITE ANYTHING IN THEM THAT YOU WOULDN'T BE HAPPY TO SEE PROJECTED ONTO THE WALL OF A COURTROOM IN LETTERS A FOOT HIGH!

This is because one day you, or a colleague, might be in court - hopefully as a witness - but anything vague or even mildly unprofessional in your notes will come back and land on you with a vengeance. (I should add that this was in the era when medical notes were peppered with Dr. shorthand such as "FLK" - "Funny-Looking Kid". Sounds - and is dreadful, but it meant that there were signs of a possible syndrome that needed to be checked out, but not clear what.)

@EveryDayIsADuvetDay

Poured some of the tea down the sink - I'd have thrown the lot away, and no chance of offering biscuits. Relative is a rude cow. Maybe she had covid really badly.

Pre covid.

In the days when flowers were allowed, a relative came to the office and told me off because the flowers she had brought in for dad were in the office, not by his bed. I was apologetic, and a bit cross with staff for taking his flowers.
A bit later, when the daughter had gone, I overheard him say to a care assistant, please get rid of these flowers, I can't stand them by my bed, she keeps bringing them in, you can have them or just throw them away.
Relatives are irritating, but what can you do?

Relative should have poured the extra tea down the sink instead of ordering the care assistant to do so. Care assistant is there for the benefit of the patient, not the relative.

@Viviennemary

Person sounds like they are suffering from the onset of dementia.

Nope. Sounds like they are suffering from the onset of arseh*lery.

I’ve had men walking into our staff kitchen helping themselves to the fridge food, tea and coffee. When myself and a colleague tried to explain that number one he can’t do that and two we only provide food and drink for patients, he started screaming and shouting in my face that he’s going to get me fired and then shouting racist comments.

This is beyond disgusting, Shreddies. Your whole post made me so angry on your behalf, and on the behalf of all the (99.99%) women like you - no-one deserves this sort of sh*t. You can accept it on a dementia/alzheimer's ward, because the patients aren't responsible, but on a maternity ward, or any other "mild" ward, there should be no tolerance for this sort of behaviour.

Care assistant deserves a medal for keeping her cool!!

Relative is a querulous nutter by the sound of it.

Might spill some tea?

Jesus.

You were pushed to far.
I honestly think no good deed goes unpunished.
You need to rearrange your thinking on the Relative.
New way of thinking of it is this.
Once i did a nice thing for a person and made them a cup of tea, the entitled person wanted cafe service and made demands that were ridicules, wonder if M&S would sell you part of a pack of biscuits, what a total idiot.

pisstakers complaining they couldn't even get a cup of tea and 2.68 Jammy Dodgers

Now I want 2.68 Jammy Dodgers . . . BUT DON'T MAKE CRUMBS!!!

This kind of thing really bothers me too. The relative was unreasonable. You were trying to do your best.

To help get over it, tell yourself:

Each time I think about this, the relative is hurting me.

The relative doesn't care. Even if they knew this bothered me they wouldn't think they'd done anything wrong. I can't change that.

I'm choosing to move on from this. This thread shows me I did what a reasonable person would and I can't change the past.

Oh I forgot this we were told in conflict AGREE with the person.
P, Can I have a cup of tea and one for R.
You. While it would be lovely to give you both a cup of tea, Hospital says we can't.
R But I would like a cup of tea and some biscuits.
You, Well R yes it would be nice if I could offer you tea, the rules say I can only get one for P.
R But I want a cup of tea. !
You , Yes I can see and understand you would like a drink, however you will have to go and buy one.

You just keep agreeing , then say the reason why it is no.

I am sorry that you see faced with this in your work life and that this is probably a frequent occurrence. My mother has mental health issues and she is absolutely horrible to staff in hospitals, often also shop assistants and other people she meets. She has never held a job down and has no friends. She is also horrible to her husband and many of her relatives. It is no excuse but I wanted to say I am sorry you are subjected to this type of behaviour. Sh has just come out of hospital where she ranted that her needs were not being met when she was moved from a private assessment room to a ward and then ranted that she was given a private room when others were in a shared ward, why should she get a private room just because she could pay, everyone should be treated the same.. I cannot imagine how awful it must be to deal with people like my mother every day.. regardless of how you dealt with it at the time.. it is not right.

The other question is how you go about letting these things go. They build up and make us angry, especially when we cannot do anything about it. Meditation, self hypnosis, relaxation, affirmations, gratitudes, all of these techniques can help. It can be hard to separate our feelings about bad behaviour from the bad behaviour itself. We can find ourselves resisting the expectation that we have to forgive in a way that excuses the behaviour, or change ourselves when it is other people who are wrong. The mind set change comes from that age old saying... 'accepting the things we cannot change'... protecting ourselves from this behaviour, recognising that we are worthy of protection and knowing how to seek out validation, positive messages and postive people to surround ourselves with.

Take care, it is a difficult job when you need to dressed in armour and smile at poor behaviour every day, find compassion for everyone you deal with even when they don't fond compassion for you and most of all find compassion and love for yourself!!

@HeraInTheHereAndNow

The relative is totally in the wrong.

My mum died on a ward in 2019. It was sudden; the family were called in early in the morning and we sat by mums bed all day. It was a Sunday and the tea shop was only open and on another floor (what seemed like miles away) so, we had one drink in the space of 10+ hrs. No one offered us as much as a class of water never mind a cuppa. There were only three of us, in shifts.

The relative was taking the rise.

My dad died a few years ago in hospital. The staff were really lovely and brought us tea and biscuits on a tray while on the ward and before they moved him to a private room. So sorry for your loss and my mum has experienced staff not being caring while in hospital. You wonder why some people go into nursing when they seem to lack a caring gene.

Perhaps the relative thought it was the Savoy

Its been six years, and its still haunting you?? You are absolutely over-thinking this.

That said, do you ever have competency-based interviews, for promotions or jobs changes? You could use the incident as a great example of when you dealt with a difficult person, or when you tried to do the right thing but didn't follow process.

I think as well, we need to be away from policies that apologise to people when they're the ones being unreasonable.
I've had a few incidents over the years where even head office have agreed I did nothing wrong in a particular situation, but have responded to the complainant with a standard response about them being sorry it happened, that they've taken their comments on board and extra training is being implemented etc etc.

That just justifies the complaint, and means a person who's behaved like an arse gets an apology and implies fault on the staff member and training.
While I don't think "You're being a twat, we're not doing anything about it, piss off" is particularly helpful (though very satisfying 😂) making it clearer in these instances that the staff member wasn't the one at fault, the policies are there for a reason and having the backbone to admit that rather than just blame the staff and apologise to someone who's being unreasonable.
That contributes in no small way to the way people can behave, and just encourages more behaviour like it.

Oh god please tell me this didn’t happen. As if it did it’s embarrassing for the relative. Who actually treats people like that?? Get your own damn drink and biscuit if you want one or even better you’re not entitled to one anyway. I actually hate the way nurses and care staff get spoken too. They deserve so much praise.

Was the patient PP and the relative PC?

'no good dead goes unpunished'

My attitude is the relative is not a patient and not my job to baby them or deal with it therefor me not doing something not in my job discription is not out of line or rude.

You dont have to pander too them or run around after them or follow their personal worries/complaints if its nothing to do with patient care.

Poor you OP. I’m in NHS too and it’s gutting when people complain when you’ve done them a favour. I’m now firmly in the “no favour goes unpunished” camp and just don’t anymore. I’m still annoyed about 2 complaints I had when I’d gone above and beyond for patients, but don’t dwell on it anymore, and just don’t put myself out anymore. I feel sad for the nice patients who would appreciate the help.

@Shreddiesandmilk120 you articulated so well the entitled behaviour of some patients and their families. I'm really sorry you have been on the receiving end of this awful treatment.

OP you did nothing wrong, you went above and beyond for arsehole and I although rolling your eyes wasn't professional, I completely understand why and the regret you must have felt for forgoing the rules to be helpful only to have it thrown in your face.

Relative sounds like a dick!

@Shreddiesandmilk120

I am a hospital worker and I can tell you that this kind of belittling behaviour happens to me almost every day. I’ve had to scrape food from patients plates because they said that I put too much. When I say to them it’s okay just eat what you can manage they argue with me. I work in a maternity ward where all of the women are young and capable, and we still get spoken to oddly.

If you give them and their visitors something extra or something you shouldn’t really do to try and be nice, they always want more it’s never good enough. I go out of my way to find women the snacks and food that they want, for them to become even more demanding 😥 sometimes I give them a little extra for example, relatives tea and biscuits, or giving bread with lunch which I'm not allowed. I get partners asking why they can’t eat food and think that I personally make the rules. I get women who specifically choose their food and then come lunch time the husband storms up to me demanding that I change it. Obviously because he wants to eat it and doesn’t like what his wife chose. If there is a busy day sometimes we have to ask them to wait to see how much food is left over and that we will come back to them, it all kicks off.

I’ve had men walking into our staff kitchen helping themselves to the fridge food, tea and coffee. When myself and a colleague tried to explain that number one he can’t do that and two we only provide food and drink for patients, he started screaming and shouting in my face that he’s going to get me fired and then shouting racist comments. Of course the managers never take our side. It’s shocking what we have to put up with and I only get paid £17,000 per year.

I do way way more than my colleagues would ever do for the patients choices, I go above and beyond to get them the specific food that they demand that isn’t on that days menu but I manage to arrange it, only for them to change their mind again at lunchtime. I had a lady last week who specifically ordered chicken and rice, when it came she said that she doesn’t eat rice... argued with the staff and then made a complaint. I don’t think the NHS users realise how close we are to just walking out halfway through a shift and quitting. We are treated like utter shit especially if you are lower paid, I’ve had patients shout at me that they are a lawyer and I am just in food service who do I think I am, all because I wouldn’t give her husband a cup of tea. Il never forget that comment. Im so glad that you are a lawyer clearly that makes you so much better than me 😂🤦🏻‍♀️

The husbands sit in the patients bed relaxing eating and drinking the woman's food and then she says she’s still hungry.... it’s comical how these women choose these arseholes as their life partner. What a disgrace, and we can’t say anything. I’d love to tell him to stop eating her food and then demanding more and using the shared patient bathroom and I’d love to tell him to help clear the mountain of dirty nappies sitting on her food table at lunchtime but I can’t. These are the women who think that their lovely husband is perfect when the rest of the women don’t want to share a bay with him because he is disruptive. Men will always get away with it as long as a woman is there to defend his shitty behaviour.

Bloody hell !!