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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Who was in the wrong? Care assistant or relative?

218 replies

GingerNinjer · 21/03/2021 08:33

Relative visiting a patient in hospital (before Covid obviously). Care assistant asks patient if they want a cup of tea. Patient asks if relative can have one too. Care assistant knows she’s not meant to offer refreshments to relatives but thinks “what’s the harm it could do?” And agrees.
Care assistant takes two mugs of tea into patient and relative. Relative says the mug is a little too full. Care assistant says “you don’t have to drink it all”. Relative says “but I might spill it”. Care assistant gets narky, takes the mug to the sink and pours some tea out of the mug. Relative says there is tea dripping off the mug and it might stain her clothes. Care assistant rolls her eyes and cleans mug with a paper towel. Patient asks if they can have some biscuits. Care assistant goes off and returns with 2 packets of biscuits (each containing 3 biscuits). Relative says “there’s too many biscuits”. Care assistant says “leave what you don’t want”. Relative says “but it’s wasteful”. Care assistant says “then share one packet”. Patient says “there isn’t enough in one packet to share”. Care assistant says “the biscuits come in packs of 3, do you want them or not?” Relative says “can you take one biscuit away?” Care assistant says “no I’m busy now, just leave what you don’t want on the table”. Relative says “but it’s messy, crumbs will get everywhere”. Care assistant snaps and says “oh well!” And walks out.

Patient and relative complain about care assistant. Care assistant gets a talking to for a) giving refreshments to relatives and b) being rude to patient and relatives

YABU - care assistant was in the wrong
YANBU - care assistant did nothing wrong

OP posts:
Notverygrownup · 21/03/2021 09:42

Bless you. You are working in a hugely important profession. Don't give up because of these folk, and don't give up on yourself because you can't move on from it.

Nursing is such a challenging job. It would be lovely if all of the patients and their relatives were gentle and compliant but you know very well that they aren't. It doesn't mean that your job is less important.

This was a really useful learning point for you. Not just to know that you shouldn't make tea for relatives (though I'd like to thank you, as someone who has benefitted many times from kind care assistants and nurses sneaking me a cup during long and stressful visits) but also a learning point that you will be looking after nasty, small minded and sometimes violent and aggressive people. Your training should equip you to do that professionally, and you may be able to sign up for additional training, eg. communication course, to help you. But you are human and that training may not save you on every occasion. The fact that you know that means that you are able to protect yourself, remind yourself of the standards you aim for, and forgive yourself if you do occasionally fall short.

You need the patience of a saint to be perfect in your job. But like mothering, you really don't have to be perfect. Just good enough and there. Thank you for all that you do. I hope that I will never be a grumpy patient or relative, but just in case I get it wrong, please forgive me, forgive yourself if you snarl at me, and know that you are really important and making a difference to people's lives, for the better, everyday.

GreatTeaMonkey · 21/03/2021 09:43

Sorry didn’t see you might be qualified now. In which case has your Trust provided any resilience training?

category12 · 21/03/2021 09:44

No good deed goes unpunished.

CreosoteQueen · 21/03/2021 09:44

Relative sounds like a twat of the highest order. Care assistant will have learned not to do anyone a little kindness for fear of this kind of twattery. I suppose the rules about not offering refreshments to relatives are to protect care workers from arseholes like the relative.

I assume you are the care assistant, in which case I’m sorry you had to deal with such an arsehole Flowers

M0rT · 21/03/2021 09:45

I am so sorry that happened to you. Just because some people are like that doesn't make it acceptable.
I've been a patient a lot and the kindness of the care staff, kitchen staff, porters etc are as important as nurses and doctors from my perspective.
I do think that if it's a recurring intrusive memory it's probably because it's a clear example of something still happening in less clear cut right and wrong ways.
Counselling for you would be a very good idea, with a goal of building your self confidence and assertiveness.
This is not a criticism I have struggled with self doubt and assertiveness my whole life so I do understand.

sleepyhead · 21/03/2021 09:46

Honestly, you can't win in this situation. The patient and relative would have kicked off if you hadn't given tea.

Even if you had done everything they asked, they'd still have found something to complain about.

RootyT00t · 21/03/2021 09:46

Erm.....

So this happened well over a year ago?

Also, relative sounds absolutely ridiculous.

People are dying in hospitals, and people haven't seen their relatives in abyear.

AnyOldPrion · 21/03/2021 09:46

You have my wholehearted sympathy OP. Anyone who works with the general public will come across these arseholes and they really can drag everything down.

I had some thoughts about your story and your reflection. You said you wished you had never given the cup of tea in the first place. But what struck me was that if the original person who asked was perfectly nice about it, then you shouldn’t regret doing that extra little thing and getting the tea. I know if I’d been the recipient, I’d have been very grateful. Then it would have been a positive experience.

The moment when it went wrong was not with you getting the tea, it was when the recipient began to be an arsehole and you continued to try to engage as if they hadn’t. Your regret should perhaps centre around trying to assist after that point.

Try to think through the episode again and imagine it ending differently. Your response to the first complaint (stating they didn’t have to drink all the tea) was reasonable, despite the fact that the person was already showing signs of being ungracious. When they suggested they might spill it, what might you have done instead of what you did? Perhaps you could have said simply, “Well leave it then, if you don’t want it,” and walked away. Or made the offer that if they didn’t want it, you could take it away again. What ending would have left you feeling satisfied with your own side of the exchange, even if you still accepted they were rude and unpleasant?

Work out exactly where it went wrong and at what point you feel your own responses begin to make you feel bad. I’d warrant it was at the point when it became obvious beyond doubt that this person was a troublemaker and you continued to engage.

And think about the feelings you felt. What you need to do is learn to listen for that quiet voice in your head that is telling you that something is wrong. Currently you can barely hear it and instantly overrule it as you have been taught to be polite.

If you begin to listen for that voice, you may start to hear it. You will be rusty and it will take courage to listen and act. The first time you do will be terrifying and you might get it wrong because you lack practice. But the only way to learn assertiveness is to practice it. And when you begin to listen to that voice and respect what it is telling you, only then will you begin to find your self-respect. And then you will see that the shitty experience you had, that was not remotely your fault, was not something to feel guilty over or regret, but was a life experience you can learn from.

That you are still agonising over this is a clear sign it isn’t resolved. Continuing to put yourself through pain over it is counterproductive. Stop beating yourself up. You did a nice thing. Not your fault the other person was an arsehole.

I still struggle with this stuff, especially with certain people, but every time I do get it right, it gives me more confidence that I can and that’s a great feeling.

Good luck.🍀

NeverDropYourMoonCup · 21/03/2021 09:46

It's why there are seemingly ridiculous rules about not providing relatives with catering - not because the NHS is being shitty, but because there are far too many twats out there that take the piss.

I despise the ones who eat the patients' food most of all. And the invading staff areas/being a racist cunt types, obviously.

However - the bit about people wanting food taken off their plates because it's too much in their eyes, I can understand; some people find a full plate just too overwhelming and they can't eat at all if it looks like too much. And it can come out as being a dickhead about it.

I think it still bothers you, @GingerNinjer, because it was your first encounter with the type of person who exemplify the phrase 'No good deed goes unpunished' at work. And there will always be those people. You get them at other workplaces, you get them on the phone, you get them in shops, you get them everywhere. As part of your job, you come into contact with more people, so you're going to meet more arseholes.

The slight detachment you need to be able to say 'I'm sorry, we're not allowed to give food or drinks to visitors' or [cheerfully] 'there's a Costa by the front entrance which does some lovely cakes as well' protects you, not just from the pisstakers complaining they couldn't even get a cup of tea and 2.68 Jammy Dodgers, but from the ones who are looking for a way in to be far, far worse than that.

How about you think about the ones who were lovely to you instead? The ones who smiled at you and said thank you? The ones who got better and went home because of things you did? The ones who were scared, vulnerable and in pain (or the relatives) for whom, 'that lovely nurse' made such a difference? The ones whose relative has now gone, but still remember how nice/kind you were to them? I bet there are thousands of those, compared to a handful of twats.

ImAlrightThanx · 21/03/2021 09:47

Relative was ridiculous and probably complained about everything just because they could.

Blueappletree · 21/03/2021 09:47

Why are you stuck on the past incident so much? Aren't you the one posted about school mum bullies that happened few years ago as well?
It's not healthy to be dwelling on the past incident.

Radio4Rocks · 21/03/2021 09:47

Relative sounds a real pain in the arse. Why didn't you intervene?

Dreadful manners, treating a carer like a servant.

Shehasadiamondinthesky · 21/03/2021 09:48

Its not a bloody BUPA cafe. I hope the care assistant sticks to the rules in future.

IDontLikeZombies · 21/03/2021 09:49

Oh OP, some people are just twats. That's all there is to it. I've been a nurse for a long time now and I think the ratios in the general population are about 1 proper nasty person:10 garden grade twats:100 nice, lovely people. Every now and then you get the an absolute gem in your case load, people who are just a joy to care for, try let them be the ones that you hold on to in your brain.
I think the practice of reflection can be unhelpful in that we almost always only reflect on our mistakes or where things went wrong. On one hand its really useful as it helps improve the quality of your practice but it can be soul destroying too. About 10 years ago I started doing it in pairs - so if I had to reflect on a mistake I also reflected on something I did really well. It helps a lot.

JackieWeaverFever · 21/03/2021 09:49

No good deed goes unpunished.
The relative sounds like a total dick.

People like that are basically the resason "why we can't have nice things"
They take a basic kind act and moan and complain and ruin it.
As a result is people who would have done nice acts or kind things stop bothering and do nothing more than their job to the letter.

FOJN · 21/03/2021 09:50

I wonder if thoughts of this incident keep coming back to because it's left a lingering sense of vulnerability; you got into trouble for trying to do a good turn and the person you were being kind to turned it against you and you got no support from management.

I worked in the NHS for years and could recount many experiences of situations like this, everytime management failed to support staff and it was nearly always a case of no good deed goes unpunished. In some situations staff were assaulted or hospital property was destroyed but still the trust took no action to prevent these visitors from coming on site. I had one case where staff were actually too afraid to look after a patient because the visitors were so awful and as a nurse in charge of allocating staff I knew that it would rest on my shoulders if that member of staff was hurt despite the number of times we had raised the issue. It's stressful to work under those conditions.

dontsaveusername · 21/03/2021 09:51

Just goes to show no good deed goes unpunished! I'm surprised the CA didn't tip it over the relative.

HoppingPavlova · 21/03/2021 09:52

I struggle with confrontation and assertiveness which makes me passive aggressive and I hate it. I’ve always been the same, I recognise it as one of my major faults.

If this was 6 years ago and you continue to have similar incidents (not to mention you are tying yourself in knots over it) - you need to leave ASAP. It’s just not compatible.

I have no problem with assertiveness but after 25 years it became apparent that on top of the paperwork and lack of hesitancy of the system to throw HCP’s under the bus, the majority of relatives had become utter cunts and the patients were more inclined to be one than not as well and that was consultant level. I could stomach the system but found the other to become very grinding. So I got out and don’t regret it for a second. Seriously, if you are not assertive I don’t understand how this will work for you so start the exit plan.

dontsaveusername · 21/03/2021 09:54

I think it's fairly normal to be upset long after things happen. I can remember in detail small things that really upset me and still get angry at some of the injustices that happened (all normal in life of course), however the trick is not to go back and think about these things continually

FiveShelties · 21/03/2021 09:54

Did this happen before you qualified, over 6 years ago?

HoppingPavlova · 21/03/2021 09:55

Forgot to add, visitors with guns were not common but didn’t cause raised eyebrows at the point I left. Just meant a shit tonne of additional paperwork and sitting in front of a random to prove having a gun waved around in your face wouldn’t cause them to be sued essentially.

Livpool · 21/03/2021 09:57

Relative sounds like an arse

Chickychickydodah · 21/03/2021 09:59

This is a common situation ,Especially in a care home dementia type situation . Relatives come in to see person who obviously is struggling with social interactions, said visitor doesn’t understand ( or doesn’t want to ) the persons mental capacity and then inadvertently starts playing one against the other in a protective manner for person they are visiting. .
Poor carer who is just being nice and trying to help gets the flack.

Hardbackwriter · 21/03/2021 10:00

The relative was clearly in the wrong and I'm sorry you had to put up with it Flowers. In general, I find the people who insist they can't cope if given 'too much' food incredibly irritating - just leave what you don't want! It always seems to be part of a wider fussiness or attention-seeking around food, often with a performative 'ooh, I couldn't possibly eat that much' element, which is a bit annoying in general but very much so if they're actually asking other people to mess around with the food to accommodate it.

TomatoesAreFruit · 21/03/2021 10:00

Technically you were in the wrong because you didn't follow the rules, but it feels incredibly mean spirited to put YABU.

I find this time and time again, in my current job, if you follow te rules you are seen as inflexible. If you break the rules, you put yourself in a position of vulnerability in terms of your career. And could be held accountable, as you were.

It's such a difficult position and I can understand why this experience has stayed with you.

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