To be crying over the Caroline Flack programme?

[Franch2892]

I don't really cry at TV or movies usually but this really hit me.
I finished watching the programme feeling somewhat 'depressed'.
I felt it was very relatable.
I've had times of depression and horrible thoughts and seeing her mum and friends talk about her made me realise how loved most people don't even realise they are.

It just hit me after the documentary how quickly people can be taken away and how we just never see them again.

I don't know, it's just made me really really sad

I do think people are being kinder to her because she’s female.

They’re not though. What seems to be a fairly minor assault, by all accounts - still an assault, definitely - was absolutely everywhere. I barely knew who she was and still heard every single detail of that case. Again, I’m not defending her, she does sound very damaged and she was violent.

And yet look how we excuse serial male abusers like the ones listed above - how many victims have come forward about Manson, for example, arguably massively more famous than Flack. How many people excuse Depp? How many people still excuse Michael Jackson?

Let’s not pretend that women are given an easier time.

@Wondermule

I disagree.

People ARE being quite nice about Caroline, because she took her own life, and it's DREADFUL that this happened. But people (IMO) would be just as nice and kind if a MAN (who was the male version of Caroline,) took his own life.

I also think (as some posters have said,) that Caroline was not treated kindly by the press, and worse than many male stars. Typical of the media AND society really; they generally treat women like shit, and let men get away with stuff they wouldn't let women get away with!

@Orangeblossom1975

She was untreated for her illness

She seemed to have quite a bit of family support and friends, managers etc and I felt it was odd that she seemed to have had so little support for her mental health in the past e.g. with previous overdoses, etc

But then it does take someone to ask for and engage it it I suppose. Just thought it was a bit strange.

You mean like when she reached out several times and said she was suicidal? Asked the papers and social media to leave her alone? Told the police she was going to kill herself? (When the media ended her career and isolated her from everyone?

Load of tosh re the ex who moved to Oz to escape her.

That wouldn't be accepted in a court of law , (given that we know the ex cheated on her and doesn't like her) so there's no place for it to mean that it proved she ws abuse.

She hit her boyfriend with a lamp. But the blood was hers.

All of those moral folk are very pleased with themselves but the media bullied a young woman so much she took her own life.

She did not deserve that.

Here's what the ex who accused her of abuse had to say a year on.

www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/caroline-flacks-ex-andrew-brady-23500543

Sorry, but these aren't the words of someone who was afraid and had to run away to a different country to "heal".
And the NDA had nothing to do with any abuse, her friends and family told her she should get that as they didn't trust him and they were moving so fast in their relationship.

[quote PugInTheHouse]@CandyLeBonBon and this is exactly why specific reasons should be taken into account. If you hit him every time you disagreed with something he said this would of course be very different to the situation you have described. You do not make excuses but you have valid reasons which the police agreed with.

If you were famous you can imagine that the situation you were in could have been twisted in an extremely negative way against you. I am not saying CF didn't do anything, but we don't actually know the full story.[/quote]
That was exactly my point @PugInTheHouse - I know if I was in the public eye, and under such media scrutiny, that it would be very easy to turn that situation into something very different.

I also know that if I'd been subjected to the utter shitshow the press put her through, I'd probably have taken my own life too.

[quote PugInTheHouse]@OverTheRubicon according to the press. I am not saying its not true but unless the police have released this information formally then I'm being cautious about what I believe as being 100% factual. There are several articles where Lewis has said she didn't hit him. I probably feel a bit guilty as I just naively read the papers and believed it to be all true at first.[/quote]
That was in court, where they played the 999 recording. Retracting claims of abuse because the victim feels guilty (because the abuser is not always like this, not because it wasn't true), or fear, is the norm not a sign to be suspicious.

As someone who was abused by someone who was undoubtedly mentally fragile and in a bad place and who was therefore then defended by others, including my own mother, because they were 'usually so lovely' and 'they aren't well'... It's an absolute mindfuck and it's awful. It's still abuse.

Again, what happened to her is tragic and she was getting vicious and unacceptable trolling long before abuse allegations. She deserved more support and less vilification in the press. Equally, brushing her alleged abuse aside on the basis of mental ill health is just encouraging yet more young people and fans (mostly women, many vulnerable themselves) to say 'but he's ill' if their own partner wakes them up with a blow to the head. And that's very far from ok.

I am amazed that people can in all seriousness compare damage potentially inflicted by a lighter than average woman on a man in his physical prime and vice versa. Unless she used weapons of course, which I understand she didn’t. Where is any common sense? There are very few men die in domestic violence cases.

Very few in comparison... anyone dying in DV is unacceptable. Apologies for clumsy wording.

@Flippin

I am amazed that people can in all seriousness compare damage potentially inflicted by a lighter than average woman on a man in his physical prime and vice versa. Unless she used weapons of course, which I understand she didn’t. Where is any common sense? There are very few men die in domestic violence cases.

She hit him on the head with q lamp while he was sleeping, flippin.

My ex hit me during a drunken argument.
He then hurt himself because he felt so 'guilty'. This switched the whole situation from what he done to how it made him feel.
Not a one off as it turned out.

He would also regularly threaten suicide when we argued or broke up.

To me suicidal threats and self harm are also a from of abuse and control.

By the way, when he was violent my marks were small. suppose that was no big deal, according to some.

I feel incredibly sad for her family and for Caroline herself. If only she'd got help years before.

@user1471543094

My ex hit me during a drunken argument. He then hurt himself because he felt so 'guilty'. This switched the whole situation from what he done to how it made him feel. Not a one off as it turned out.

He would also regularly threaten suicide when we argued or broke up.

To me suicidal threats and self harm are also a from of abuse and control.

By the way, when he was violent my marks were small. suppose that was no big deal, according to some.

I feel incredibly sad for her family and for Caroline herself. If only she'd got help years before.

She asked for help. Repeatedly

Did she? I thought the it was implied she was too embarrassed and didn't want it mentioned after incident?

Speaking as a recovering addict who used to work in the celebrity world I felt there was probably quite a big omission from that show. I understand why the family wouldn't have wanted to talk about it though.

I don’t condone what she has done. It was vile and it was right to punish her. I am just pointing out that a light woman hitting does not carry the same consequences as a man. Constant comparisons of her actions with men is really unhelpful.

Overtherubicon - if that's the case re the call then fair enough, I read about the 999 call only in the papers, never in any official statement, even when I searched for it I couldn't find anything official. I totally agree its not ok to brush any abuse aside. I don't think majority of posters have done that but equally I dont see that any of us saying this happened or that happened is useful either as no one actually knows. I dont know that any of us have enough information to say Lewis was abused in the relationship either. He may well have been, he may have felt forced to say later on that she didn't hit him or it genuinely may have been a row that got out of hand, an isolated incident where she may have deserved to be arrested, investigated, charged etc but we both agree she did not deserve what she got from the press.

Regardless of what the real story is, I do feel sad about it all, even if she did hit him that night. The whole situation just seems so avoidable.

@user1471543094

Did she? I thought the it was implied she was too embarrassed and didn't want it mentioned after incident?

No.

Caroline asked repeatedly for help with her mental health.

@Flippin

I don’t condone what she has done. It was vile and it was right to punish her. I am just pointing out that a light woman hitting does not carry the same consequences as a man. Constant comparisons of her actions with men is really unhelpful.

Eh? I don't disagree, and while I don't condone it as you can see from my posts I think people are wrong.

However, your post said it's not comparable unless she was using a weapon and not dangerous.

A head injury with a lamp while the man was asleep?

@user1471543094

My ex hit me during a drunken argument. He then hurt himself because he felt so 'guilty'. This switched the whole situation from what he done to how it made him feel. Not a one off as it turned out.

He would also regularly threaten suicide when we argued or broke up.

To me suicidal threats and self harm are also a from of abuse and control.

By the way, when he was violent my marks were small. suppose that was no big deal, according to some.

I feel incredibly sad for her family and for Caroline herself. If only she'd got help years before.

Given that Caroline successfuly completed suicide for something nothing to do with control, I'm not sure what you're getting at.

I really don’t know if the hitting him with the lamp while sleeping thing is true though. It could be but there are conflicting statements. Naturally the media ran with the most scandalous I doubt we will ever know now.

This is one of those scenarios where everyone acts like with the exact right ‘support’ (whatever that means) around her, Caroline would’ve left showbusiness, gone away somewhere, got counselling, rebuilt her life etc.

I don’t think she would’ve done. She was addicted to fame, and I don’t think she would ever have quit it. She had plenty of money for rehab/counselling, a loving family who ran themselves ragged trying to help her, good friends.

We all have to take a bit of personal responsibility at some point, the only person who could’ve changed the direction Caroline went in is Caroline. She didn’t. Which is very sad but we shouldn’t rush to blame others because it ended so tragically.

@Wondermule

This is one of those scenarios where everyone acts like with the exact right ‘support’ (whatever that means) around her, Caroline would’ve left showbusiness, gone away somewhere, got counselling, rebuilt her life etc.

I don’t think she would’ve done. She was addicted to fame, and I don’t think she would ever have quit it. She had plenty of money for rehab/counselling, a loving family who ran themselves ragged trying to help her, good friends.

We all have to take a bit of personal responsibility at some point, the only person who could’ve changed the direction Caroline went in is Caroline. She didn’t. Which is very sad but we shouldn’t rush to blame others because it ended so tragically.

Addicted to fame?

She was a presenter on a TV programme and otherwise didn't do anything else.

She was not addicted to fame.

The people who could have changed the direction were the people responsible for bullying her to her death.

I cant bring myself to watch it I feel so sad about her and I think I'd be in bits

@Wondermule

This is one of those scenarios where everyone acts like with the exact right ‘support’ (whatever that means) around her, Caroline would’ve left showbusiness, gone away somewhere, got counselling, rebuilt her life etc.

I don’t think she would’ve done. She was addicted to fame, and I don’t think she would ever have quit it. She had plenty of money for rehab/counselling, a loving family who ran themselves ragged trying to help her, good friends.

We all have to take a bit of personal responsibility at some point, the only person who could’ve changed the direction Caroline went in is Caroline. She didn’t. Which is very sad but we shouldn’t rush to blame others because it ended so tragically.

Sadly, this is true. History shows us that people with access to every conceivable resource can find themselves unable to carry on living. Her loving family and friends did all they could, as did the loving families of so many victims of suicide who had reasons beyond 'needing support'.

@RootyT00t

They even said on the programme she was addicted to the validation and attention that being famous gave her.