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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

SiL wants to live with us 2 months a year

356 replies

ploomo · 19/03/2021 10:26

Sorry this is so long, there's quite a lot of detail required to avoid drip-feeding.

My DH's sister is 55, my DH is 59. She worked for the police in an administrative capacity for many years and was early-retired/ made redundant (she's never told us which) at 50. She married young and had a child, but they split up by the time she was 30 and she's been on her own since then. Her son moved to Ireland years ago and has a family there. After leaving the police service she was diagnosed as being high-functioning ASD, which didn't come as a huge surprise to anyone.

When she received her redundancy/ retirement money she sold the house she'd lived in for years and bought a beautiful-looking 'lodge' on a holiday park site. It has a really stunning sea view. We could see the attraction, but not as a main home. We, and everyone else who was aware of her plan, pointed out that she wasn't allowed to live there all year round and has to vacate in January and February each year. We also pointed out that the contract stipulated that after 20 years she'd need to replace the lodge with another. The site fees add up to nearly £6000 a year and she had another decade to go before her state pension kicked in. She said she'd had years of work and compromise and for once she wanted to treat herself to something special. She said she'd done a deal with the site owner and he'd allow her to live there all year round, despite the regulations.

She moved in and it was heaven for a while but within a few months she'd fallen out with the site owner and also with several other lodge owners who'd come down at the weekends with their children who ran around and made noise. That first year she came to stay with us for new year and didn't go home till early March. DH and I both work and we're not hard-up so we just gritted our teeth and coped. DH made it clear that she needed to make alternative arrangements for the next year.

The next year she went to Australia for two months and had the holiday of a lifetime. The year after that she stayed with her son and his family in Ireland for a month and then in Air BnBs in southern Spain. The cost of all this was clearly getting out of hand and last summer she decided she needed a long-term solution and decided to buy a camper van to live in over the winter. She's spent nearly £60,000 on a brand new bespoke VW camper van done out to her own design. It's been resprayed her favourite colour, it's got leather seats in her favourite colour, the worktops are her favourite colour — but it's tiny and she needs to have an electricity supply so that she can use the microwave and the heater.

In late December she packed the stuff she'd need to get through the winter and went off in the van to park up in the yard of a friend who owns a farm. We're not sure what happened, but after a fortnight she left there and has been staying in the van outside various peoples' houses. She came to us during the cold spell in February and we ran an electric cable out to the van so she could have the heater on in it 24/7. She came in to use our loo and bathroom and washing machine each day and ended up just living with us during the day and sleeping in the van at night. It's as if Covid regulations don't exist for her. At the end of February the site owner contacted everyone who owns a lodge to say that because of Covid the site wouldn't be open until after Easter, so it looks as if she'll be around for another few weeks.

A couple of days ago she came up with a new solution to the problem. She wants us to convert our garage into a studio flat so that she can come and live here in the winter, and so that she has a fall-back in a few years if she can't afford to keep the lodge. My DH talked to her and we suspect she's blown all the money she got from the sale of the house and her savings and is now struggling.

I say she needs to get a job and work until her state pension kicks in but she won't hear that. Nor will she think of selling the camper van. We've suggested she rents out her lodge for £1000 a week from Easter to September and lives in the van and she assumed we were joking. She doesn't have visitors, it's her private paradise, she'd never dream of renting it out and she'd very offended we'd suggest it.

I realise there's nothing we can do. She's made her decisions and has to live with them. What I'd like to hear are the experiences of others with family members who live in static homes or similar situations, and those with experience of relatives who anticipate that they'll be looked after by family. Where do you draw the boundaries? My DH is worried sick about her. I think there's a strong likelihood that he'll start preparing to convert the garage and utility into a studio flat for her and I can see her ending up living with us permanently, which isn't something either of us want!

OP posts:
alexdgr8 · 21/03/2021 02:19

Jux, that is a tricky situation, and rather sad all round.
sounds like your brother has, maybe unconsciously, made you and your husband into parent figures for him. esp as you are male and female.
so he just assumes he'll be moving with you.
could you broach the subject gradually, when it's just you and brother, perhaps while watching tv, a storyline or discussion.
so that he can process the change and adjust to it, mentally.

alexdgr8 · 21/03/2021 02:22

Ploomo,
i would suggest you post all this on GN.
there may be more people on there who have experience of lodge homes etc, also of balancing responsibilities with vulnerable adults.
good luck.

kittycorner · 21/03/2021 02:28

@ploomo I think the ASD complicates things. It impacts decision making, executive functioning and the ability to see the consequences of actions.

I don't know how you balance that with what you want/don't want with regards to the conversion. The challenge as often the case is she think she has choices and autonomy, but it's clear she's not able to navigate those choices for the best outcome and to ensure she doesn't become precariously housed or vulnerable.

You are a very caring SIL and I really wish you and your dh luck.

Moelwynbach · 21/03/2021 03:41

Op there is something you can do. Tell her to jog on.

Moelwynbach · 21/03/2021 03:53

There are ways you can be supportive without having her living with you such as helping her to find some decent financial advice to make the most of what she left. Could you also help her to get on the local authority housing list. Ultimately Op she is an adult, diagnosed or not she managed to raise a child she has the capacity to manage her life now.

rainyskylight · 21/03/2021 04:30

Hi OP,

Would it be productive if you both sat down with the SiL and had a calm discussion about it. Explain that this can’t go on and that she needs to find a permanent solution. Offer to go through finances with her and help her look for solutions. Make it absolutely crystal clear that the garage isn’t being converted. If you do the chat together (with DH) then it will be easier to stand firm. She seems to be making a lot of irrational decisions and needs help seeing the long term picture. And then after the chat, continue communication with her along the same lines. Asking if she’s had any more thoughts, referring to her needing to be settled elsewhere by X date, suggesting going through potential housing choices together. ?

Courgetteandbeans · 21/03/2021 08:19

It seems to me that she doesn't have a problem saying "no" to you and the suggestions you and your DH have made to resolve the situation, so you shouldn't worry about saying "No" back to her. She has options she just doesn't like them. To bad.

Suleika · 21/03/2021 09:18

You've already given her an inch and she's taken a mile and a mile and a mile. She will continue to take for as long as you let her. If you convert the garage the amount of resentment you feel will continue to increase and could cost you your marriage and home.

Nith · 21/03/2021 09:23

As others have already commented, the lack of understanding of ASD, and the lack of empathy for those with it and those supporting those living with it, has come as a shock

Whilst MN doesn't tend to be great on understanding people with disabilities, I don't think that is necessarily the issue with this thread. You've acknowledged that your SIL wouldn't be viewed as vulnerable by Social Services, and indeed by most people's standards she's pretty lucky financially and actually has coped better with life than many NT people. You also seem to acknowledge that she could work and be self-sufficient, i.e. that her autism wouldn't prevent that. It's not surprising therefore that most people are saying that you need to say no to her and that she needs to take responsibility for the consequences of her decisions.

Newmum3200 · 21/03/2021 10:05

You need to put your foot down now and say no. You will end up looking after her for the rest of her life. She needs to get a job but its not for you to tell her that, just tell her and your dh its a no. You’re not adapting your home or life for her. You’ve been accommodating enough, she’s lived in your home for months on end. I can barely stand a house guest for more than a week you deserve a medal.

I have some similar experience, when DH’s mother lived abroad. She never told us her plans but clearly had in mind that she would stay with us for large chunks of the year (2-3 months in the summer, a month over xmas etc). I let it happen for a while then had to be very forceful to put and end to it. If i’d have let it happen she would, no doubt about it, have moved in with us by now. It sounds like your SIL is a similar personality to my MIL, in that everyone else's needs are irrelevant so long as hers are fulfilled. You have to treat them in the same way they treat you, or you will be road kill.

It will ruin your life and your marriage. Not even exaggerating.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 21/03/2021 14:15

@Jux

I have two versions of this in my life. My SIL has bought a park home after selling her London flat, but at least she bought one in a park which is licensed for year-round occupation but she's just sold it and bought another on a different park where the situation seems a little fluid.....

Secondly, my brother was living in London (renting), was made redundant and came to live with us. I had thought this was a temporary measure while he got himself together, finished a project he'd been working on for some years (and was going to fund his retirement but actually it didn't); he's been here for over 10 years. I'm not sure how I stand it, I do really hate it now. I have no idea what's going to happen when we downsize, which we should have done 4 or 5 years ago but I've been havering so I don't have to face the Brother Problem. I think he thinks we'll buy a place big enough for him, but we shan't. I think dh has put up with enough - they don't really get on, though we are all generally amiable from day to day but there are deep waters stirring below the surface.

That's so sad Jux.

If your brother hadn't outstayed his welcome so appallingly, then he and your husband might have been able to remain friends, after you downsize, but now I would think that at best your DH will tolerate him at family gatherings for your sake, and nothing more. And your brother will be resentful that he has been "thrown out".

You and DH must have the patience of saints - you have effectively had your home invaded. I've had people staying for short lengths of time, and your home isn't your own any more, no matter how much you love them. I hope your downsize goes smoothly - but I can see why you're reluctant to face your brother. The sooner the better.

Amiable · 21/03/2021 15:13

She is autistic. As previous poster said using labels such as "high-functioning" is very harmful, as it actually hides her vulnerability.

Some things it sounds like she struggles with - executive functioning, personal boundaries, protection of personal/"safe" space, finances, forward planning, impulse control - these are all part of her being autistic, and NOT that she is "lazy, sponging, disorganised" etc.

It is all well and good saying she is an adult and needs to sort herself out, the truth is as an autistic adult who has been masking and passing as NT for years, she CANNOT do this. Her brain is wired in a way that makes these things extremely difficult, or even impossible.

I agree you should not convert the garage, but she will need support to get HA/council to take her seriously as a vulnerable adult who needs housing. She will probably need to get medical confirmation of her diagnosis and what this means, as well as any support you and your DH can give. Best of luck.

willibald · 21/03/2021 15:22

I agree you should not convert the garage, but she will need support to get HA/council to take her seriously as a vulnerable adult who needs housing.

The thing is, with successive Tory governments and larger and larger swathes of the population needing social care as they age, people are really going to start trying to plan as best they can not to rely on councils and HAs to provide housing Sad if at all possible. It's just not sustainable.

ShipOfTheseus · 21/03/2021 15:30

people are really going to start trying to plan as best they can

And planning is one of the things those with difficulties find hard or impossible.

toconclude · 21/03/2021 16:32

@GoWalkabout

She should get on a housing association list. If eligible. Say no!
This. Demand for over 55 social housing isn't that pressing in a lot of areas.
maynardgkrebs · 22/03/2021 01:14

When they folded all the miscellaneous related conditions into Autism Spectrum Disorder, some confusion seems to have been created, at least on MN. My relative has autism. He can't speak, he cannot read or write, and he requires hours of walking every day to prevent violent episodes. As a grown man is utterly dependent on his aged parents, and will never be able to live outside an assisted care facility when they eventually die.

Unlike the OP's sister, he will never be holding down a desk job for several decades, or be making random property purchases. He is a lovely young man, and much loved and valued by his family, but he would not be capable of purchasing so much as a pair of socks.

The OP's sister-in-law has, she's said, high-functioning autism, which unless I'm wrong used to be called Asperger Syndrome. I know many adults, formally diagnosed with AS. It's hardly something to be wringing your hands about as if it's the most awful plight imaginable. It would be informative, also, to know who 'diagnosed' her.

Anycrispsleft · 22/03/2021 05:37

@wandawombat

I would note the "she was annoyed & moved ..." thing cropped up several times in the OP. Is she getting difficult?
Yeah, and when she moves in at OP's, she's not going to get any less combative, but I bet OP will be the one expected to be the better person and put up with it...
torquewench · 22/03/2021 05:46

I belive VW campers hold their value quite well. If she sells it she'll have more than enough for a deposit on a flat.

Stratfordplace · 22/03/2021 06:53

With no income though she wouldn’t get a mortgage.

ploomo · 22/03/2021 10:15

I'm amazed this thread has kept going.

Until she was made redundant/ retired from the police service my SIL had a very structured life and routine that enabled her to feel secure and didn't require her to make major decisions. She worked for the police for 28 years and she lived in the same house that she had lived in with her ex husband — and he lived locally and kept an eye on her. Then at 50 she was faced with big decisions and the possibility of change and her vulnerability and lack of judgment became exposed. We don't know if any particular person put the idea of her 'living the dream' or 'living her best life' into her head. We're not aware of her friends but we suspect she's involved with people online. She's an adult, she lived and worked independently for years and we know that apart from offering advice and a bit of support there's not much we can do.

OP posts:
BrumBoo · 22/03/2021 11:31

@maynardgkrebs autism is autism. The mistake people like yourself keep making is associating 'high functioning' as being on the same scale as NT e.g. the closer you are to the 'top' the more 'normal but with quirks' you are. That is bull. The autism spectrum is a spectrum within autism - you are not NT. Someone who is 'high functioning' can still have indivdual difficulties in line/on the same level as those with 'low functioning' autism.

The ignorance about autism, especially in adults and very much especially about 'high functioning' autism on Mumsnet is astounding and horrifying. I think there should be a sub just for ASD, where people who know very little about the huge variation in autism can keep their very uneducated views away.

Cadent · 22/03/2021 11:36

@ploomo what have you decided to do?

maynardgkrebs · 22/03/2021 11:56

@Brumboo, thank you for your charming response. At no point have I assumed being anywhere on the autism spectrum is at all like being 'neurotypical with quirks'.

The autism spectrum is a spectrum within autism - you are not NT.

The autism spectrum is, by definition, a spectrum. Full stop.

I am not sure why you are so hostile.

BrumBoo · 22/03/2021 12:04

At no point have I assumed being anywhere on the autism spectrum is at all like being 'neurotypical with quirks'.

@maynardgkrebs

Your rather pointless comparison of the OPs sister to your 'relative' with a low IQ/disabilities very much shows what your idea of autism is. You evidently do not understand that just because the sister managed to hold a job for a while/had a husband and child, doesn't mean that she is fully capable as opposed to others on the spectrum. It's very evident that you (and others on this thread) have little to no understanding of 'high functioning' autism, and are viewing it through an incorrect and harmful 'scale' in comparison to being NT.

maynardgkrebs · 22/03/2021 12:12

My friend's husband has Asperger Syndrome, as does another friend. As you are a leading world expert, perhaps you can tell me if I am wrong in thinking that that is now just referred to under the blanket heading of ASD, which as I pointed out also encompasses my relative. Not sure why you felt the need to put inverted commas around relative...