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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

SiL wants to live with us 2 months a year

356 replies

ploomo · 19/03/2021 10:26

Sorry this is so long, there's quite a lot of detail required to avoid drip-feeding.

My DH's sister is 55, my DH is 59. She worked for the police in an administrative capacity for many years and was early-retired/ made redundant (she's never told us which) at 50. She married young and had a child, but they split up by the time she was 30 and she's been on her own since then. Her son moved to Ireland years ago and has a family there. After leaving the police service she was diagnosed as being high-functioning ASD, which didn't come as a huge surprise to anyone.

When she received her redundancy/ retirement money she sold the house she'd lived in for years and bought a beautiful-looking 'lodge' on a holiday park site. It has a really stunning sea view. We could see the attraction, but not as a main home. We, and everyone else who was aware of her plan, pointed out that she wasn't allowed to live there all year round and has to vacate in January and February each year. We also pointed out that the contract stipulated that after 20 years she'd need to replace the lodge with another. The site fees add up to nearly £6000 a year and she had another decade to go before her state pension kicked in. She said she'd had years of work and compromise and for once she wanted to treat herself to something special. She said she'd done a deal with the site owner and he'd allow her to live there all year round, despite the regulations.

She moved in and it was heaven for a while but within a few months she'd fallen out with the site owner and also with several other lodge owners who'd come down at the weekends with their children who ran around and made noise. That first year she came to stay with us for new year and didn't go home till early March. DH and I both work and we're not hard-up so we just gritted our teeth and coped. DH made it clear that she needed to make alternative arrangements for the next year.

The next year she went to Australia for two months and had the holiday of a lifetime. The year after that she stayed with her son and his family in Ireland for a month and then in Air BnBs in southern Spain. The cost of all this was clearly getting out of hand and last summer she decided she needed a long-term solution and decided to buy a camper van to live in over the winter. She's spent nearly £60,000 on a brand new bespoke VW camper van done out to her own design. It's been resprayed her favourite colour, it's got leather seats in her favourite colour, the worktops are her favourite colour — but it's tiny and she needs to have an electricity supply so that she can use the microwave and the heater.

In late December she packed the stuff she'd need to get through the winter and went off in the van to park up in the yard of a friend who owns a farm. We're not sure what happened, but after a fortnight she left there and has been staying in the van outside various peoples' houses. She came to us during the cold spell in February and we ran an electric cable out to the van so she could have the heater on in it 24/7. She came in to use our loo and bathroom and washing machine each day and ended up just living with us during the day and sleeping in the van at night. It's as if Covid regulations don't exist for her. At the end of February the site owner contacted everyone who owns a lodge to say that because of Covid the site wouldn't be open until after Easter, so it looks as if she'll be around for another few weeks.

A couple of days ago she came up with a new solution to the problem. She wants us to convert our garage into a studio flat so that she can come and live here in the winter, and so that she has a fall-back in a few years if she can't afford to keep the lodge. My DH talked to her and we suspect she's blown all the money she got from the sale of the house and her savings and is now struggling.

I say she needs to get a job and work until her state pension kicks in but she won't hear that. Nor will she think of selling the camper van. We've suggested she rents out her lodge for £1000 a week from Easter to September and lives in the van and she assumed we were joking. She doesn't have visitors, it's her private paradise, she'd never dream of renting it out and she'd very offended we'd suggest it.

I realise there's nothing we can do. She's made her decisions and has to live with them. What I'd like to hear are the experiences of others with family members who live in static homes or similar situations, and those with experience of relatives who anticipate that they'll be looked after by family. Where do you draw the boundaries? My DH is worried sick about her. I think there's a strong likelihood that he'll start preparing to convert the garage and utility into a studio flat for her and I can see her ending up living with us permanently, which isn't something either of us want!

OP posts:
JustDespair · 19/03/2021 15:07

Say no. To her and to your husband. No. Not happening. Ever.

Even reading this has given me a bit of anxiety, so I can only imagine how it's making you feel.

LakieLady · 19/03/2021 15:08

@GrandDuchessRomanov

You might want to take advice from Alan Bennett over this OP :)
You stole the thought from right out of my head, @GrandDuchessRomanov.

If only she'd had the presence of mind to get a proper motorhome, with central heating and a shower and toilet on board, then she could have toured the UK for 2 months of the year, staying for free at places that are in the Britstops scheme. And for that £60k, she could have got a fantastic motorhome!

I think this is time for "No is a complete sentence".

triceratopsmama · 19/03/2021 15:13

@RandomMess no need for her to come to Ireland. We've enough people moving here from the uk because of Brexit. And no property isn't cheap here.

MadamBatty · 19/03/2021 15:31

Why would coming to Ireland where she knows nobody be a solution? You know that Ireland is a whole different country?

maynardgkrebs · 19/03/2021 15:34

"Her son moved to Ireland years ago and has a family there." In the OP.

LakieLady · 19/03/2021 15:38

Surely she has a decent pension already from her police service unless she left under a cloud

She was in a civilian role and they have very different pension schemes from officers. Most of the forces in the SE mirror local government pensions. Unless she was retired on ill-health grounds, she wouldn't get it until at least 60, maybe later if they are raising the age in line with state pension age.

If she's 55, I suspect she won't get her state pension until she's 67, so she needs to find herself an income. She has 2 assets that she could use to do that for her, the lodge would probably be the most lucrative, and she could use the income from renting that out as a holiday let to rent a place to live in.

I suspect it will be very hard to persuade her to sell either the lodge or the van, as she will have to take a hit financially on what she paid for them.

Those lodge developments are going to turn out to be this century's static caravans imo. I used to have a lot of clients who needed help to find housing when they'd got to the stage when the static had to be replaced, and they couldn't afford the exorbitant price of a new one, so lost the pitch.

I feel very sorry for your SIL, OP, but she's an adult, presumably she has the capacity to make her own decisions, and she's BVU expecting you and your DH to rescue her from the consequences of her unwise choices at your own expense.

Anne1958 · 19/03/2021 15:39

However, she is in a vulnerable if she's been diagnosed with autism, and the older she gets the more vulnerable she will become. There's no such thing as 'high functioning autism' in reality, and her disaster with finances could well be part of her condition. In this sense she really does need help and support rather be told she's an 'adult who needs to get on with it'. Could she possibly be referred to a support worker or ask social services which agency would be most appropriate before she finds herself destitute?

Hear Hear.

But to be quite honest I’d be doing whatever I could to help her out in the long run.

Dontbeme · 19/03/2021 15:47

My DH is worried sick about her. I think there's a strong likelihood that he'll start preparing to convert the garage and utility into a studio flat for her and I can see her ending up living with us permanently, which isn't something either of us want!

I think I would be asking my DH why he was happy to fund his sister's early retirement when I was still going out to work everyday. If this scheme goes ahead you will end up supporting her into retirement and I do mean YOU OP, if she became ill you would be expected to help with personal care and continue going to work to finance her life choices. She needs to return to work, simple as that. She cannot afford to live as she is currently.

Cadent · 19/03/2021 15:47

[quote triceratopsmama]@RandomMess no need for her to come to Ireland. We've enough people moving here from the uk because of Brexit. And no property isn't cheap here. [/quote]
And how many people have moved from Ireland to the UK?!

Higgeldypiggeldy35 · 19/03/2021 15:52

I want to win the lottery, and marry Joshua Jackson. We don't always get what we want do we. She needs a reality check. She doesn't get to dictate to you. Just say no.

LakieLady · 19/03/2021 15:54

[quote triceratopsmama]@RandomMess no need for her to come to Ireland. We've enough people moving here from the uk because of Brexit. And no property isn't cheap here. [/quote]
It's all relative.

I sometimes look at property in West Cork, an area I love (I had friends near Skibbereen for many years, and my ex had friends near Baltimore).

I could get a 5-bed detached Georgian pile there, with land, and still have plenty of change from the money my tiny, 2-bed semi in Sussex would fetch.

olivesnutsandcheeseplease · 19/03/2021 16:05

Has she considered being a house sitter during the months when the lodge site is closed? Another suggestion could be a live in companion (my aunt does this for elderly people when their relatives go on holiday)

1FootInTheRave · 19/03/2021 16:07

Absolutely fucking not.

And if dh pushed the idea the house would be sold anyway as part of the divorce.

triceratopsmama · 19/03/2021 16:08

@Cadent oh lots. But if she's not working and needs financial assistance let her claim it from the system she paid into. Not this one. And I would say the same if it was reversed.

triceratopsmama · 19/03/2021 16:10

@LakieLady it absolutely is all relative. My main point is that if she's running out of money let her claim her benefits in the uk. That's where she paid her taxes.
And west cork is beautiful. I'd love to live there myself.

DeRigueurMortis · 19/03/2021 16:11

Oh dear OP what a different situation.

I think a lot of posters saying "just say no" are underestimating her vulnerability and how her condition is likely to be a very significant factor in making poor financial judgements.

The fact is however that her financial situation is dire - perhaps even more than you appreciate.

She's invested heavily in two assets that both require costly ongoing maintenance and that are both depreciating in value.

The lodge - unlike a traditional home will lose value increasingly as it gets nearer to the replacement date. It's why most people do not buy such property as a main home because they use the rent to pay the ground fees and build up a contribution to the replacement costs.

The camper van is not a solution to the problem of not living on site as you've found out and her ability to spend any significant time in it will decrease as she gets older.

So the upshot is she's got two "assets" that not only she can't really afford to maintain as is but the longer she holds onto them the narrower her options get as their value reduces.

It's just not sustainable. She either needs to get a job to fund the maintenance of the van/lodge (and start saving for the lodge replacement) or she needs a radical re-think.

You've said she's refused the obvious options of selling the van/renting the lodge/finding a job.

I understand your DH is worried and want to help his sister but I think you need to tread very carefully.

If you keep bailing her out of her poor choices she will keep making them.

Prior to her redundancy money you've not posted anything to suggest that she was able to make fairly sensible decisions wrt her finances.

Frankly the fact is she has options if she's spent all her savings. She just doesn't like them and ASD or not she can't expect other people to help her if she won't help herself.

The van is a wasteful luxury in that it doesn't solve the issue for which it was bought.

I think your DH needs a pretty straight conversation with her and be blunt that she won't be moving in and needs to start helping herself before expecting you to pick up the pieces.

I know that sounds harsh but she's not actually on the breadline here and you're not throwing her to the wolves.

The camper needs to be sold and she needs to get a job. That would enable her to meet the ground rent and have savings for the lodge replacement.

Do not convert the garage. It's likely to negatively impact the value of your home plus what happens if you want to move/downsize in the future?

ktp100 · 19/03/2021 16:14

It's her life and she's made her choices. She needs to own them amd sort this HERSELF!

I'd be telling her a firm no and if she turns up anyway telling her to leave. She's being awfully cheeky and you don't have to put up with this in your lives.

She sounds like a rather pushy yet difficult visitor. I certainly wouldn't put up with that every year. Her ASD is almost irrelevant in this situation - she is clearly high-functioning and capable of understanding issues. You need to stick to your guns here or things could get messy.

No is a complete sentence, OP (as they like to say on this site).

LakieLady · 19/03/2021 16:14

This is exactly the same as a narcissist I still can't see what the difference is

That's a bit like saying everyone who has the shits has E.Coli, @C3SC.

There are lots of different conditions that can lead to very similar presenting symptoms, and only investigation/assessment can determine the cause of those symptoms.

Stratfordplace · 19/03/2021 16:21

Just say No. Perhaps her son could host her for the 2 months or contribute to an Airbnb. She is most definitely not your problem. Don’t convert your garage. She has bought two rapidly depreciating assets, in fact the lodge, once more years have passed, will have no resale value.

January and February are the worst months to spend in a camper van and this idea was never going to work.

IrmaFayLear · 19/03/2021 16:23

But really it’s irrelevant whether the sil has ASD or is a raving narcissist, the problem is the same: she wants to be in Op’s house and the OP is not happy about it.

All the Op (and her dh) can do is present some costed scenarios to the sil which do not include the studio flat option. I agree with poster upthread who suggested a studio or 1 bedroom flat with the lodge money.

Tal45 · 19/03/2021 16:24

Narcissism and aspergers syndrome can look very alike in the apparent selfishness and self absorption but are very different because the person with aspergers has no idea they are being selfish and entitled - they struggle to see things from other people's points of view. Narcissism stems from extremely low self esteem where as aspergers is considered to be genetic.

You have to say no OP and not be wishy washy - don't even talk about 'maybe staying sometimes' or 'just staying for short periods'. You have to be clear that you will not be converting the garage. Would she be willing to go through her finances with DH do you think? He will need to be as calm and clear as he can in explaining that she cannot afford to live this way for much longer even if she isn't already in debt. At the end of the day though if the very worst comes to the very worst she will end up bankrupt and homeless and then will be entitled to council accommodation. If she hates the idea of that, then explaining it to her might be the thing to persuade her into action of some sort.

Perhaps you could then also get DH to write down all the possible options she has, with each option clearly explained and separated out from the last - as well as the consequences if she doesn't choose any of the options. She can then read through the options in her own time, giving her time to process and consider each one. At the end of the day though she is an adult with capacity so the decisions are all hers and there is only so much you can do to help. xxx

Cinderstella · 19/03/2021 16:37

Ah yes...... The Lady in the Van springs to mind.
Yes, advice from Alan Bennet would be good.

LiverLeona · 19/03/2021 16:37

Hi OP,

Oh goodness, this sounds familiar. I had an incredibly similar experience with my DM, who was never diagnosed but we strongly suspected was probably on the autism spectrum. She took early retirement in her 50s, bought a holiday home in a beautiful village that she could only live in 10 months a year, and then spent a LOT of money on things such as holidays, etc, which seemed way beyond her means. It always seemed part of her plan that she was going to 'rely on the kindness of strangers' as Blanche DuBois said, or the kindness of extended family more accurately. The holiday home was massively expensive, and I and several other members of the family tried to reason that for the same money she could buy a small flat with a tiny mortgage but she just didn't want to engage with the idea. I see a really similar pattern with your SIL and the attitude to money- a number of years later I saw my DM's accounts, and the money she'd burnt through in the space of about 5 years was horrifying.

I can't really advise, as its a incredibly stressful situation, and if your experience is anything like mine you definitely won't be able to change her mind, but I can tell you how it played out in our family. After several years of extended stays with family/holidays during in the two months, family members got better at defining their boundaries and saying no she couldn't stay for extended periods and she got more fed up of the hassle of living in a holiday home when she realised she couldn't rely on family's extended hospitality any more. Also during this time she had a health scare and a member of the family got in touch with social services and in her late 50s she was awarded a council flat in a complex with a warden- it was kind of an independent flat with a little bit of extra support if she needed it. She was happy there (it had lovely gardens, she could walk to the centre of town, the warden was really nice, and by this time the holiday home was definitely losing its appeal) and she stayed there until the end of her days.

Unfortunately you do have to be particularly strong at maintaining boundaries of what is and isn't acceptable to you in this situation, whether they mean it or not it does seem that if you give an inch they'll take a mile. I do wonder if people with ASM/on the autism spectrum just don't realise quite what a strain their expectations can put on those around them. I don't think its malicious, they're just oblivious. Interestingly with my DM she never got angry or resentful when a family member said no to whatever she was asking for, she just made other plans. I thought I'd mention it as I anguished a lot about how to say 'No'. You can be perfectly caring and concerned for her welfare without effectively becoming a surrogate parent and swooping in every time she makes another bad decision. In fact, I would argue if you are going to maintain a healthy relationship and not end up massively resentful it's essential.

LakieLady · 19/03/2021 16:39

[quote triceratopsmama]@LakieLady it absolutely is all relative. My main point is that if she's running out of money let her claim her benefits in the uk. That's where she paid her taxes.
And west cork is beautiful. I'd love to live there myself. [/quote]
She might struggle to get benefits if she's burned her way through a lot of money in a short time. If she had more than £16k, she wouldn't qualify for benefits. There's a rule that if they think you've deliberately spent capital in order to qualify for benefits, they can treat you as though you still have it. And the purchase of a £60k campervan is just the sort of thing that would ring an alarm bell.

Also, the lodge would complicate things. It's kind of her home, so doesn't count as asset. But they could take the view that as she can't live in year round, it's not her home. Any property you own but don't live in can be regarded as a capital asset and treated the same as savings. I think I could argue a client's way out of that one though.

SpongeBobJudgeyPants · 19/03/2021 16:43

@GrandDuchessRomanov

You might want to take advice from Alan Bennett over this OP :)
I think Duchess is referencing the true story of Lady in the Van, when someone moved onto his driveway/street.
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