SiL wants to live with us 2 months a year

[ploomo]

Sorry this is so long, there's quite a lot of detail required to avoid drip-feeding.

My DH's sister is 55, my DH is 59. She worked for the police in an administrative capacity for many years and was early-retired/ made redundant (she's never told us which) at 50. She married young and had a child, but they split up by the time she was 30 and she's been on her own since then. Her son moved to Ireland years ago and has a family there. After leaving the police service she was diagnosed as being high-functioning ASD, which didn't come as a huge surprise to anyone.

When she received her redundancy/ retirement money she sold the house she'd lived in for years and bought a beautiful-looking 'lodge' on a holiday park site. It has a really stunning sea view. We could see the attraction, but not as a main home. We, and everyone else who was aware of her plan, pointed out that she wasn't allowed to live there all year round and has to vacate in January and February each year. We also pointed out that the contract stipulated that after 20 years she'd need to replace the lodge with another. The site fees add up to nearly £6000 a year and she had another decade to go before her state pension kicked in. She said she'd had years of work and compromise and for once she wanted to treat herself to something special. She said she'd done a deal with the site owner and he'd allow her to live there all year round, despite the regulations.

She moved in and it was heaven for a while but within a few months she'd fallen out with the site owner and also with several other lodge owners who'd come down at the weekends with their children who ran around and made noise. That first year she came to stay with us for new year and didn't go home till early March. DH and I both work and we're not hard-up so we just gritted our teeth and coped. DH made it clear that she needed to make alternative arrangements for the next year.

The next year she went to Australia for two months and had the holiday of a lifetime. The year after that she stayed with her son and his family in Ireland for a month and then in Air BnBs in southern Spain. The cost of all this was clearly getting out of hand and last summer she decided she needed a long-term solution and decided to buy a camper van to live in over the winter. She's spent nearly £60,000 on a brand new bespoke VW camper van done out to her own design. It's been resprayed her favourite colour, it's got leather seats in her favourite colour, the worktops are her favourite colour — but it's tiny and she needs to have an electricity supply so that she can use the microwave and the heater.

In late December she packed the stuff she'd need to get through the winter and went off in the van to park up in the yard of a friend who owns a farm. We're not sure what happened, but after a fortnight she left there and has been staying in the van outside various peoples' houses. She came to us during the cold spell in February and we ran an electric cable out to the van so she could have the heater on in it 24/7. She came in to use our loo and bathroom and washing machine each day and ended up just living with us during the day and sleeping in the van at night. It's as if Covid regulations don't exist for her. At the end of February the site owner contacted everyone who owns a lodge to say that because of Covid the site wouldn't be open until after Easter, so it looks as if she'll be around for another few weeks.

A couple of days ago she came up with a new solution to the problem. She wants us to convert our garage into a studio flat so that she can come and live here in the winter, and so that she has a fall-back in a few years if she can't afford to keep the lodge. My DH talked to her and we suspect she's blown all the money she got from the sale of the house and her savings and is now struggling.

I say she needs to get a job and work until her state pension kicks in but she won't hear that. Nor will she think of selling the camper van. We've suggested she rents out her lodge for £1000 a week from Easter to September and lives in the van and she assumed we were joking. She doesn't have visitors, it's her private paradise, she'd never dream of renting it out and she'd very offended we'd suggest it.

I realise there's nothing we can do. She's made her decisions and has to live with them. What I'd like to hear are the experiences of others with family members who live in static homes or similar situations, and those with experience of relatives who anticipate that they'll be looked after by family. Where do you draw the boundaries? My DH is worried sick about her. I think there's a strong likelihood that he'll start preparing to convert the garage and utility into a studio flat for her and I can see her ending up living with us permanently, which isn't something either of us want!

You have to protect yourselves. I am sure she will sort herself out if you don't keep helping her. If you do let her move into your annexe, you will never get rid of her and you will end up doing more and more for her. Your lives will never be your own again. Don't even consider it. I strongly suspect that if no-one helps her, she will sell the lodge and campervan and buy a small, cheap property with the proceeds. There are plenty of cheap properties about in the UK if you don't need to live near a certain city or town for work for half the cost of her campervan.

She's spent nearly £60,000 on a brand new bespoke VW camper van done out to her own design. It's been resprayed her favourite colour, it's got leather seats in her favourite colour, the worktops are her favourite colour — but it's tiny and she needs to have an electricity supply so that she can use the microwave and the heater.

This is such an idiotic waste of money I don't know where to start. You can buy second hand camper vans with heaters than run off the diesel engine and/or which have solar panels in the roof for power for less than half that price. Its pretty easy to get a long time site with hook up at this time of year usually for negligible cost too.

My parents are similar, except they haven't run out of money yet, but DF also retired at 50 on a full pension. What is it about luxury motorhomes, holiday homes and lengthy foreign holidays with these people? My parents have been through 4 different motor homes (losing heaps of money each time), 2 luxury caravans and 3 holiday homes in the past 15 years.

I'd say no. You're not there to mop the fallout for her poor life choices.

She's stayed previously and you say it was a nightmare. I wouldn't do it again.

As for "She said she'd had years of work and compromise and for once she wanted to treat herself to something special."

That's called being an adult. I'd like to slope off the the Maldives 6 months of the year, but clearly I can't afford to 😁.

Like many others, I’ll have to work for years yet and won’t get my pension until I’m 67-no way would I be carrying on working to pay for an extension so that someone else can live there in their early retirement! I would be spelling that out loud and clear as well.

Op - the first place you need to asset the boundary is with dh - you don't want her staying more than 2 nights ever again. That includes on the drive. Be clear this is a divorcing issue for you.

Your dh isn't even her next of kin, that's her son, but he might not be fully aware of the problem. Can you/your dh email him, explaining you have reached breaking point but are worried she hasn't got much money left. That does he want to discuss how you all help support her, but being clear that support will be to live independently, moving in with you isn't an option.

Op, omg, what a nightmare, why would a job be so awful. Job in a cafe or a newsagent until state pension applies. She cant just decide not to work because she can mooch off you!

Interesting that she thought you were joking when u suggesting she makes some money renting 9ut the lodge in summer when it was warm enough for her to live in the van! That is a good solution! But she was offended because she doesnt have visitors 😂😂😂😂

This photo might help explain the “spectrum“ better to some people.

There’s quite a lot of nastiness about ASD adults on here isn’t there? I am recently officially diagnosed, but going by the judgements and nastiness on here I don’t know if it will be better to tell friends, colleagues, wider family or not now.

ASD kids grow up to be ASD adults ya know. You don’t grow out of it.

Why did you and your DH buy a house with a garage, OP?

Was it because you wanted a garage to use yourselves, or was it just in case someone wanted a free place to live while you worked to support them?

Use your garage for something - have a workbench and park your car in it every night, make a craft studio or anything, as long as it's clearly not available as a room and sleeping there is clearly not an option.

And make it very clear to DH that if he even attempts to turn the garage into living accommodation for Dsis against what you have agreed together, the marriage will be in serious trouble and he could end up living elsewhere.

I had no idea this would attract so many responses so I'm feeling pretty overwhelmed and haven't had time to read them all. I particularly appreciate the responses from those who are familiar with the decision-making processes of those with ASD and can perhaps better appreciate the complications.

A couple of comments. She stayed in the marital home after her husband left and he was quite generous with her and her son, so when she sold the house to buy the lodge we think she had 100% equity and my guess is that she had some savings. She doesn't talk about finances so it's all guesswork. If it's true that she couldn't take her pension from her service with the police till she's 60 that's something of a relief.

She's lived modestly all her life and so this recent desire to 'live her best life' as she sometimes puts it is a new development. We don't know who or what is influencing her to spend so much money, but it's a 180-degree turn from the quite frugal life she's led till now.

We may have over-estimated the cost of her camper van. We looked for similar ones on the internet and found several priced at around £60,000 but she says that because she had it converted to order it wasn't quite so much. But it's still the expensive option when a much cheaper, older vehicle would have suited her better.

My DH is her older brother and has always kept an eye out for her, ever since she was bullied at school for being different. I quite like the fact that he feels protective towards her and doesn't want to see her suffer: it's what makes him the man he is. We won't end up with her living in our garage but I can understand his desire to ensure she has a roof over her head.

I'm hoping that she'll be able to think what we've said through and come up with her own solution. Work is the obvious answer, although whether she'll be able to get the kind of thing she's used to where she's living I don't know.

@okokok000

I'd say no. You're not there to mop the fallout for her poor life choices.

She's stayed previously and you say it was a nightmare. I wouldn't do it again.

As for "She said she'd had years of work and compromise and for once she wanted to treat herself to something special."

That's called being an adult. I'd like to slope off the the Maldives 6 months of the year, but clearly I can't afford to 😁.

This

Her life is not your responsibilty, and you know if you convert the garage, she will be living there permanently, if not now, in the future,

My DH is her older brother and has always kept an eye out for her, ever since she was bullied at school for being different. I quite like the fact that he feels protective towards her and doesn't want to see her suffer: it's what makes him the man he is.

This is lovely. He is a good brother and it's a GOOD thing that he wants to help her.

@Advic3Pl3as3

This photo might help explain the “spectrum“ better to some people.

There’s quite a lot of nastiness about ASD adults on here isn’t there? I am recently officially diagnosed, but going by the judgements and nastiness on here I don’t know if it will be better to tell friends, colleagues, wider family or not now.

ASD kids grow up to be ASD adults ya know. You don’t grow out of it.

True, but who’s responsible for supporting ASD adults? Not their parents, siblings or partners...then who? That’s the trap and why supposed ‘high-functioning’ people fall off a cliff...they can be difficult resulting in people distancing themselves, and social services not that concerned.

He is a good brother and it's a GOOD thing that he wants to help her.

Not when it's to OP's detriment, it's bloody not. OP shouldn't be lumbered with her.

Advic3Pl3as3 I am also shocked at the majority of posts and the language used around someone who (very probably) has a disability.

OP, converting your garage/allowing her to live with you, very probably isn't the solution. I have been in a very similar situation with a relative (by marriage). The solution was to support them fully in getting a diagnosis, then supporting them to access help.

You may well need very firm boundaries put in place and it is important not to let their demands and needs overwhelm you and DH. My DH found the putting in place of boundaries almost impossible to begin with... but without them nothing could change. In our case the outcome was a good one and the relative is now living independently and within their means etc.

I would get your DH to say something like - ‘we are happy to put in some time to talk through your options with you, help and advise, help you with reaching decisions, like asking yourself where you see yourself in 11 years when you qualify for your State Pension, work out ways with you as to how you make up your pension shortfall for these next 11 years, and for earlier years, help you get a state pension forecast, look at your budget, but whilst we are happy to help you with a plan and help you work out a budget, living with us is absolutely not going to be an option”

That way, if she hasn’t already, she will start thinking about the future and what she herself needs to do to sort herself out, to take responsibility for her own future.

That way, you are offering her “something” (your time and help with her budget/planning) but declining and not facilitating what she actually wants - to invade your space. And you can make it clear that you are not the default fall-back position going forwards?

I'm hoping that she'll be able to think what we've said through and come up with her own solution. Work is the obvious answer, although whether she'll be able to get the kind of thing she's used to where she's living I don't know.

Okay, stop right there! This hinting and hoping and your wishy washiness with her, letting her stay for months at a time, letting her move into your home except for sleeping the night in the van, has led her to believe the solution is to convert the garage and live with you, not as a 'fall back' but as the solution to her money problems.

As Black and Amaryllis have pointed out, this is how she functions and sees things.

So you and your H must first have a very serious conversation because if you do this, she will be living with you full-time quite shortly. For good.

She will not think through the way an NT person will and come up with a viable solution. BUT she can get it that living with you and the conversion is not going to happen and once she gets over being angry and upset she might well be willing to engage with some financial planning help.

BUT, you need to be present NO as a united front and your h needs to realise she'll get upset and he needs to be prepared for it and prepared to weather it and not back down.

This is EXTREMELY important in dealing with a person who has ASC. They are capable of getting it. My son will even do this with dinner. 'We're having meatballs'. 'No, I want a steak pie,' cue meltdown. You have to weather it. 'No. It's this or it's nothing' (he loves meatballs, btw, he agreed meatballs on the meal plan) and give him space to process it. Then he comes round and eats his dinner.

'No. We are not converting the garage to an apartment for you. You cannot use us as a place to stay when things don't work out. We are willing to discuss other options and see a financial planner with you, but that one is not an option.'

Keep it simple and be blunt. NO hinting or sometimes or justifications or background.

No to Ireland and moving near her son. I can guarantee the reason she only stayed a month at his and several at yours is because he and his wife have told her NO and been firm about it. If they wanted her around they'd have presented this as an option. They have not and I can guarantee there is a reason for this.

And yes, this is a hill to die on so if you do not want her living with you forever and your home converted you need to make this very clear to your husband.

His desire to help her is admirable, but he's doing her no favours by enabling her. I have to really struggle not to enable my son for an easier life because it's not doing him any favours and I do not want him to turn out like my BIL. I want him to lead his own life as much as possible. He has the intelligence to do this. And he has to learn that other adults are not there to mop up his problems because one day, hopefully, we will die before him as should be the natural order.

She has probably burned through all of the money.

Lodges like this are for rich people to have fun. My sister is very successful now. She has one of these lodges with her family. It's for having some fun holidays and as a bolthole and they don't care if they lose money on it because for them the enjoyment of the property is worth the money. The site fees are staggering but the park has incredible amenities. They've offered it to us to stay in and refuse to take money for this and we've taken them up but have always paid for a professional clean after, left it immaculate, sent them a thank you hamper or tickets to theatre or something we know they enjoy.

You two first need a very serious talk to agree a realistic plan of action and then present it to her because as pointed out, right now she is single-mindedly going to pursue this as she sees it as the only solution.

You have to stop being so passive about this. You really do. NOW whilst you are all relatively young and in good health. Things can change in an instant.

Does your SIL recognise and agree with her diagnosis? Would she agree that she needs help with certain aspects of managing her life (from the sounds of it, she's struggling with forward planning and managing her finances)? If she has insight into her difference, it may be easier to support her to make a workable plan for her future.

Of course you can't let her come and live with you permanently - that's clearly not going to work for anyone. But I admire your DH (and you) for recognising that she really does need support. Best wishes to you all.

Be prepared for her to get very upset, too. That will happen. But it's highly likely she'll come around in a while, she needs space to be able to process it. With my son we tell him, 'This conversation is over. It's become unreasonable. We're going to go outside and have a coffee (or other strategies we've learned through some courses we've taken and therapy).'

Personally, our son finds being given too many options at once very confusing and befuddling and his response to this is to blow up (he is also having adjunct psychological therapy to address this and learn some other strategies), so I'd keep it very simple at the outset with just NO, we're not converting our home into an apartment.

@willibald

I'm hoping that she'll be able to think what we've said through and come up with her own solution. Work is the obvious answer, although whether she'll be able to get the kind of thing she's used to where she's living I don't know.

Okay, stop right there! This hinting and hoping and your wishy washiness with her, letting her stay for months at a time, letting her move into your home except for sleeping the night in the van, has led her to believe the solution is to convert the garage and live with you, not as a 'fall back' but as the solution to her money problems.

As Black and Amaryllis have pointed out, this is how she functions and sees things.

So you and your H must first have a very serious conversation because if you do this, she will be living with you full-time quite shortly. For good.

She will not think through the way an NT person will and come up with a viable solution. BUT she can get it that living with you and the conversion is not going to happen and once she gets over being angry and upset she might well be willing to engage with some financial planning help.

BUT, you need to be present NO as a united front and your h needs to realise she'll get upset and he needs to be prepared for it and prepared to weather it and not back down.

This is EXTREMELY important in dealing with a person who has ASC. They are capable of getting it. My son will even do this with dinner. 'We're having meatballs'. 'No, I want a steak pie,' cue meltdown. You have to weather it. 'No. It's this or it's nothing' (he loves meatballs, btw, he agreed meatballs on the meal plan) and give him space to process it. Then he comes round and eats his dinner.

'No. We are not converting the garage to an apartment for you. You cannot use us as a place to stay when things don't work out. We are willing to discuss other options and see a financial planner with you, but that one is not an option.'

Keep it simple and be blunt. NO hinting or sometimes or justifications or background.

No to Ireland and moving near her son. I can guarantee the reason she only stayed a month at his and several at yours is because he and his wife have told her NO and been firm about it. If they wanted her around they'd have presented this as an option. They have not and I can guarantee there is a reason for this.

And yes, this is a hill to die on so if you do not want her living with you forever and your home converted you need to make this very clear to your husband.

His desire to help her is admirable, but he's doing her no favours by enabling her. I have to really struggle not to enable my son for an easier life because it's not doing him any favours and I do not want him to turn out like my BIL. I want him to lead his own life as much as possible. He has the intelligence to do this. And he has to learn that other adults are not there to mop up his problems because one day, hopefully, we will die before him as should be the natural order.

She has probably burned through all of the money.

Lodges like this are for rich people to have fun. My sister is very successful now. She has one of these lodges with her family. It's for having some fun holidays and as a bolthole and they don't care if they lose money on it because for them the enjoyment of the property is worth the money. The site fees are staggering but the park has incredible amenities. They've offered it to us to stay in and refuse to take money for this and we've taken them up but have always paid for a professional clean after, left it immaculate, sent them a thank you hamper or tickets to theatre or something we know they enjoy.

You two first need a very serious talk to agree a realistic plan of action and then present it to her because as pointed out, right now she is single-mindedly going to pursue this as she sees it as the only solution.

You have to stop being so passive about this. You really do. NOW whilst you are all relatively young and in good health. Things can change in an instant.

This is completely brilliant advice.

Everyone I know who retired from the police or the fire service at 50 got their pension at 50. However they all looked for another part time or full time job and their partners were all still working. What are you going to do all day when all your friends are at work / busy ? Lots of them still have kids in college / uni and want to support them.

Most people I know who are full time retired are in their 70s or older. So your SIL is going to be the odd one out anyway due to her lifestyle choices.

Once she has calmed down, then you can offer seeing a financial planner together and then maybe further down the line some psychological help to get some strategies in place. He's actually really on board with mindfulness and some accupressure measures his therapist taught him to bring calm when he feels overwhelmed. He's on medication for OCD and ADHD so needs adjunct psychological therapy to deal with the former quite a bit.

It's a long road but worth it. Unfortunately, there will be storms and you must be very firm and consistent with strong boundaries. You cannot let up or be wishy washy or hint.

I would pretend to go away on holiday every time she asked.

NOOooOOOOooooooooOOOOOoooo!

She will insist on "house-sitting"!

OP, I have an awful lot of fellow-feeling with you, as I have experienced something similar with a close relative - someone I love, who is different in a number of ways, and who insists on a quality of life that is both higher than mine, when I work and she doesn't, and which she can't afford, whilst sitting on assets. I can assure you than nothing will budge them from their allotted course.

However, this stuck out from one of your posts, when you said you'd talked about her letting her lodge out to get some easy money: She doesn't have visitors, it's her private paradise. I think you need to make it clear that your house is your private paradise, and while you do have guests, you don't have any for longer than three days at a time.

Is she paying for your garage conversion? If not just tell her you don’t have the money.

@SchadenfreudePersonified

I would pretend to go away on holiday every time she asked.

NOOooOOOOooooooooOOOOOoooo!

She will insist on "house-sitting"!

Yeah, this type of strategy won't work with a person like this because they don't take hints or nuances at all.

It has to be no with such people, quite bluntly.

I get it's hard, it still is. But it's the only way.

We work really hard with our son, go to therapy ourselves, have done classes and courses, because we want to give him as many tools as possible to be able to, as best he can, to recognise his neurodiversity and work within its confines as best he and we can. Enabling him doesn't help him or us. It is gut wrenching and hard work and we lost a child due to illness. But it's worth staying the course. We have fought and fought, and still do, for the support and care he and we need and will continue to do so, but at the root of it is him.

I highly recommend doing some research yourselves on adults with autism and how to cope and strategies.

But first and foremost, OP, you need to truly ask yourself if you want to be the carer for your SIL forever, because converting the garage is what that will lead to. And be realistic about it because she will not magically get better or see reason as you see it or anything else. She 'falls out' with people because she is a very rigid thinker. This will not change. You need to decide if you are willing to take her on for the rest of her and possibly your life.

And then you need to talk this over with your spouse and, if necessary, get/hire some outside therapy and counselling.

It will change your life and your h's life and hers.