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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Upset about letter from neighbour, and angry at myself for telling DD

372 replies

SheikahSlate · 18/03/2021 12:03

This is my first post, so I hope I am posting in the right place. I guess I'm asking AIBU for being this upset. I'll try to be as succinct as possible. Sorry if it's a bit long.

Quick bit of context. My DD (now 6) and I moved into this semi-detached house in November (rented). The house is 'attached' to another building which has been converted into 6 small apartments (also rentals, but with a different landlord). DD has only recently been back in school (I'm not a key worker - I'm studying for a Masters and start teacher training in September), so we've been in A LOT, homeschooling, following guidelines, etc etc.

Back in November, a few days after we had moved in, my mum came round for a cup of tea (I'm a single parent, and I'm in a bubble with my parents). We were talking in the sitting room. There was a knock on the door and a young woman, probably early twenties, was stood there looking a bit perplexed. She asked, 'do you live here? I thought this was an office'. This slightly perplexed me, because it’s clearly a house, but I was pleased to meet a neighbour so quickly and said that my daughter and I had just moved in, and briefly introduced myself and enquired in turn about her. She's from London, but studying for a medical degree at the University here. She then said she had heard talking, so loud that it 'was like it was just right outside my window'. 'Great', I thought...'thin walls'. However, my mum and I don't talk particularly loudly - and were just chatting in a very normal way. I felt like the young woman was waiting for me to apologise or offer to reduce the noise, but I just felt that I shouldn't. I'm generally a very accommodating person (sometimes too accommodating, I think) but felt that I shouldn't offer not to talk, at a normal level, in my own sitting room. It turns out she lives basically in one room, and works at her computer on the other side of the wall. I did, however, feel sympathy that she could hear noise, and that this was disturbing her. I know that the previous tenant here was a divorced man who wasn't home at a lot - and without children - so she was probably used to blissful silence.

Anyway, I have never seen her since. I've already established a really good relationship with the people in the house next to us (another semi-detached), but see little of the people in the flats to the other side. Yesterday morning, however, as I was leaving the house to take DD to school, I saw a letter had been posted. It was four pages of A4 and I quickly scanned it as I was in a rush, but my heart sank when I realised it was from the young woman, apparently at her wit's end, about the noise coming from our house. The letter included one which she had composed just after Christmas, and one she had written that morning. She said she had resisted sending the one at Christmas at first, but that she's now really struggling.

Apparently she hears lots of shouting and thudding, which stops her going to sleep (she said she goes to bed very early some days - between 6 and 7pm after working at her placement) , and that the noise also impacts on her ability to concentrate on her studies. I have obviously obsessed and obsessed about what she could be referring to. Occasionally, but not that frequently, my DD decides to launch herself from the sofa, or climb to the top of the door frame and drop down, so that could explain the thuds. As far as 'shouting' goes, often I do shout upstairs - 'Are you OK?' - if she's playing in her bedroom. Or I call her from the kitchen, ‘Dinner’s ready!’. Admittedly, I will often have shouted either of these things at around 6-7pm, shortly before DD’s bedtime (but sadly DURING the bed time of the woman next door). I've started to become extremely paranoid about the level of noise we produce, but I just can't really, rationally believe it's anything beyond a normal level for a family of our (small) size.

I DO have sympathy. She's on her own, in a different city, studying for what must be an incredibly difficult degree, and under a huge amount of pressure. None of this is helped by COVID and the accompanying restrictions. I've struggled massively myself and definitely empathise. But I also feel slightly aggrieved that she didn't just come and speak to me sooner (and more directly, unlike that first time when she came round), rather than send me this really rather long essay about how desperate the situation has been for her, and basically lying it all at my door.

I've asked if we can speak face to face (she gave me her number in her letter), and we're going to speak tomorrow. I feel like my approach should be that, 'while I feel sympathy, we are a small family just doing normal things and behaving in a very normal way. I don't know what more I can do?’ Is this reasonable? It's so difficult...

What I'm most upset about, and angry at myself about, is that I STUPIDLY mentioned it my daughter. I am an absolute idiot. In the car I was in a bit of shock after receiving the letter, and feeling awful and weird, and gently told my daughter that we might need to be careful to keep the noise down otherwise we might upset the neighbours. She knew I had a letter in my hand, and put two and two together. Again, STUPIDLY, on my part, she overheard me mentioning it to a close friend near the school gates.

Sorry for all this rambling. But to finish - DD is a sensitive thing, and on our previous street, where we lived since she was born, we were surrounded by a huge array of really lovely neighbours. She's always associated 'neighbours' with friendly, almost family-like people. This has shaken her a bit and she keeps asking about our neighbour, and saying she feels 'bad and sad' about the letter. She even started whispering yesterday evening when we were in the sitting room, fearful that she might be being too noisy. I regret letting her know about this so, so, so much - it was an utterly stupid and irresponsible thing to do. So I guess I also would love any advice on how to repair the damage done here.

Sorry again for the rambling. Well done, and thanks, if you made it to the end.

OP posts:
DimidDavilby · 18/03/2021 14:36

She needs help. I would not be meeting with her, you also sound very sensitive so unless you feel like you have the spare emotional energy to support another adult I would cancel that.

1forAll74 · 18/03/2021 14:38

I wouldn't worry about this. If you know very well that you are not a noisy household. You obviously have a woman, who lives alone, and seems a bit self absorbed and a bit spikey ,living next door. It's not your problem if this woman needs to go to bed so early. It's her problem, if she thinks that everyone needs to keep deathly quiet in her surroundings.

SheikahSlate · 18/03/2021 14:38

@FluWorldOrder

The OP was unnecessarily longwinded and you both sound as irritating as each other. This is why I can't wait to leave this shitty ass country and go back to where detached houses are well.. normal houses. None of this living jammed in like sardines. Ridiculous. Tell her to jump.
Yes, I can definitely be irritating, on occasion.

I'd tell her to jump, but she's on the ground floor.

OP posts:
halllftheworllldawway · 18/03/2021 14:39

@TakeYourFinalPosition

If it's normal noise, there's not a lot that you can do...

climb to the top of the door frame and drop down

But that sounds really weird, unless I've lived a weird life. I've never known a 6-year-old, or any other child, climb a door frame to jump off.

Maybe keep an active note of what you're both doing throughout a few days and then see if it is noisier than you thought, or if it's normal?

The walls must be very thin if she heard your conversation with your mum, and you're not loud people... I have a friend who talks so loudly that I'm pretty sure the whole street could hear! It's unfortunate for everyone that the walls are so rubbish, but you can't not talk so that she can't hear you.

I live in a flat, but thankfully the only noise we hear are the poorly installed tumble dryer and our neighbours treadmill, both of which are annoying but not critical. It might drive me slightly insane if we could hear everything, but there's little you can do about it if you're only making normal household noise.

My kids do this Grin
Cartooner · 18/03/2021 14:39

Gosh the year that is in it when so many have had to work with kids and partners in the same room, she would need to toughen up a bit or just buy some earplugs. A four page letter is a fairly rude way to ask too.

yoyo1234 · 18/03/2021 14:42

I don't think anything you are doing is unusual (apart from door frame) . I think it could be a lot more that your neighbour is not coping with her course and the situation ( eg lockdown/Covid 19). 4 A4 pages sounds like she is trying to find a scapegoat when she should be studying and is finding it hard to.

Maverick197 · 18/03/2021 14:43

We had this. We bought our semi-detached house from an old man who had been in a care home for months, the house had been empty for a while so our neighbours had got used to no noise coming from our house.
Then we moved in with 3 kids. We moved in on a Friday and on Saturday started unpacking boxes and assembling furniture. Saturday morning we get a knock on the door from the neighbour asking us to keep the noise down. We asked for some understanding as we had just moved in and needed to unpack. He kept knocking and complaining, it really stressed me out and I was paranoid about making any noise for a long time. It should have been a happy time for us having moved into our new home, but I ended up with extreme anxiety.
We have now lived here for 6 years and the neighbour still regularly complains about normal family noise. He's even complained about us to the council, who didn't take it further as there was no evidence of excessive noise and no other neighbours had complained.
He even complains about us closing our front door, he has asked if our kids could leave at the same time in the mornings so that we don't have to close the door so many times. All our kids go to different schools, so leave the house at different times.
Over the years I have learned to ignore him, I know we don't make excessive noise. But it took me a long time to come to terms to having such a hostile noise sensitive neighbour.

Good luck with your conversation with the neighbour, you have done nothing wrong!

chocolateorangeinhaler · 18/03/2021 14:44

The NDN is being very unreasonable. Tell her to get on Amazon and buy a trade pack of earplugs. It's not unreasonable for you to have a conversation in your own home.
What does she do when on a ward? Tell all the other patients to shut up??
Ask her to stop intimidating you or you will report her behavior to the police. She can always move her desk or find another room to rent.

GetLost · 18/03/2021 14:45

A lot of modern housing is really poorly insulated/sound proofed. Do you both have laminated floors? And lockdown means we're all in so much. In some places it sounded like the neighbours were playing drums in the kitchen - the cupboard doors were noisy when they shut. Doing the dishes, Cutlery/crockery being put away travelled through the kitchen flloor and made such a racket.

gamerchick · 18/03/2021 14:46

If you give this person your phone number, you're in for a load of pain OP. Do not let her have it.

Tell her it's unfortunate normal household noise is bothering her but there's not a lot you can do about that and point her towards noise cancelling headphones

willibald · 18/03/2021 14:48

@gamerchick

If you give this person your phone number, you're in for a load of pain OP. Do not let her have it.

Tell her it's unfortunate normal household noise is bothering her but there's not a lot you can do about that and point her towards noise cancelling headphones

I agree. It would be very foolish to give her your number. She's not your problem, don't make her one.
Maverickess · 18/03/2021 14:48

I work permanent nights, so am in bed at odd times in a similar way to your neighbour.
Do I sometimes grumble and moan to myself about the noise from my neighbours or the kids playing out when it wakes me up? Yep, yep I do, because I'm tired, I can't sleep because of the noise/been woken because of the noise and that quite frankly makes me grumpy!
I'm also doing a bit of studying online and I'm struggling sometimes without being distracted by the same things.

I don't think everyone around me needs to be silent though to accommodate me. Unless it was excessive and consistent, I don't say anything because as much as it might make me grumpy, that's not anyone elses fault, if you're in a job where you're working shift patterns, you can't expect to everyone else to adapt to you, it's up to you to adapt to it and do things that drown out the normal noise of life going on around you at normal hours, which happen to be your sleep time.
I don't think your neighbour is being reasonable from what you've described, it sounds like she's used to silence and therefore feels like you're making excessive noise when you're not.
Could you catch any of the other tenants and ask them if you're also disturbing them? I presume that it's not just her apartment that's joined to your house? Maybe one at the back or one upstairs? That might give you a better idea of if the noise is genuinely too loud, or if she's just being oversensitive about it.
It does sound like she's overwhelmed with everything and she's honed in on the normal noise from next door as an outlet.

MimiDaisy11 · 18/03/2021 14:48

You are going to stop your daughter jumping from door frames which seems to be the only unreasonable noise. So there's not much more you can do. I hate wearing earplugs but really that's what it sounds like the neighbour needs to do.

FuckyouCovid21 · 18/03/2021 14:50

@FluWorldOrder

The OP was unnecessarily longwinded and you both sound as irritating as each other. This is why I can't wait to leave this shitty ass country and go back to where detached houses are well.. normal houses. None of this living jammed in like sardines. Ridiculous. Tell her to jump.
Off you fuck then
purplebagladylovesgin · 18/03/2021 14:50

Is it a semi detached house that's been converted into flats? It sounds like the nightmares of another decade when regulations were really lax, especially around soundproofing.

I lived in a flat in a badly converted semi detached house in the 1980's. It was ground floor and first floor flats with the joining wall onto another semi that had also been converted.

We could hear everything. Even people breaking wind! The worst bit was the bakery next door that would start up noisily at 5am every single morning apart from a Sunday.

It sound as though you are kind and considerate but are stuck with poor sound proofing from old (now very upgraded) regulations. You are doing nothing wrong and if she were to report you the council would say the same.

Depending on how your meeting goes I'd be tempted to call the council and run the issues you are having by them. So at least they know you are onside. You wouldn't have to change your current behaviour as you are already being very accommodating! You might be able to find out when the flats were converted as a defence.

poppycat10 · 18/03/2021 14:51

This is why I can't wait to leave this shitty ass country and go back to where detached houses are well.. normal houses. None of this living jammed in like sardines

Erm there are loads of detached houses in the UK - I live in one.

And Portugal was considering a noise law because so many people are working at home.

The OP was far too long but there is noise and noise and it does not sound like the OP and her DD are making much of it at all.

RedMarauder · 18/03/2021 14:51

It's life, she needs to get used to it or move to somewhere detached.
This.

Unfortunately for her the house her flat is in wasn't converted properly so there isn't sufficient noise insulation between you both. This isn't your fault but her landlord's.

I suggest if she comes round again you tell her to report you to the council's noise department and that she needs to stop harassing you. You then need to tell her goodbye and firmly shut the door in her face if necessary.

She will get nowhere with the council due to the fact your noise is normal living noise. If you live next to a child you have to tolerate the sounds of them playing.

Keep this letter. Then if she sends you another letter report her to the police for harassment, get a crime reference number and then inform her landlord of her behaviour. Normal people complaining about noise don't send lengthy letters they try and knock on the door for good reason.

I have lots of stories to tell about noise pollution from flats and houses.

SheikahSlate · 18/03/2021 14:54

@purplebagladylovesgin

Is it a semi detached house that's been converted into flats? It sounds like the nightmares of another decade when regulations were really lax, especially around soundproofing.

It's an unusual set-up. Mine is a red, brick three floor house attached to wider, white building (which has been converted into flats). Five or six years go the white building was a pub, and this house I'm in was the guest house attached to it.

OP posts:
HamFisted · 18/03/2021 14:56

My two pennies' worth;

Climbing up doorframes isn't that weird. My sister used to do it too, but she climbed back down again rather than jumping off- I'd just tell her to do that. Once their legs get longer they don't fit anymore so the behaviour will stop of its own accord.

I once went and asked next door's teens to be quiet because they were shrieking and shouting song lyrics at the top of their voices at 7 p.m. Ridiculous, but I was massively sleep deprived and stressed out with a very high needs baby that couldn't sleep with the noise. I've had to forgive myself for it (though have been avoiding the neighbours ever since out of sheer embarrassment). I bet your neighbour is similarly frazzled, OP- maybe ask if she feels she is coping with everything and remind her that pastoral support at uni exists to be accessed.

bigbluebus · 18/03/2021 14:58

Sounds like she hit lucky when the single man who was out all day was living in your house and she us now comparing normal living noise of a family with what she had got used to. She needs to get ear plugs and or headphones or go and study at the Uni library where there will be quiet rooms. My student DS is in his 3rd year of sharing a house with 3 people, one of whom is a medical student who does placements - he's never had an issue with having to 'be quiet' in the house .Your ndn needs to find a solution to HER problem.

Kotatsu · 18/03/2021 14:58

you're two people, one of whom is a 6 year old, so probably isn't going to bed more than an hour or 2 after your neighbour!..

We were 4 people though, and I confess I did have a habit of yelling up the stairs to tell them it was time for dinner/put shoes on, but then next door had occasional parties with singing (!), a motorbike, and a dog who stayed there sometimes and didn't like being in the garden, and were 3 adults out at work most of the time. No complaints either way, we were all just living our lives.

OP, you're not being unreasonable to live a life. Your child needs to know that she's allowed to live her life too, and sometimes, other people need to understand that it's not all about them, and other people exist.

JollyAndBright · 18/03/2021 14:59

You did very well in Nov when she knocked on your door initially.

I would be very careful not to apologise or make any promises or agreements to change the way you live.
You don’t have to be rude, you can say that you are sorry she is struggling, that lockdown has been hard for a lot of people and hopefully now we are turning a corner things will get easier.

You could maybe suggest that since the walls are so thin as she is so sensitive to noise she might want to witter to her landlord about cavity insulation.
But until then maybe she could invest in some noise cancelling headphones, I have the Bose quietcomfort ones and they are amazing.

the fact that she was lucky with a quiet neighbour before doesn’t mean you need to feel guilty about her struggling to adjust to living next door to a family with children, that the gamble you take living next to family sized houses.

I’ve had neighbours like this before, you have to be so careful not to let them think they can start dictating how you live in your own home.

Yebanksandbraes · 18/03/2021 15:05

Noise cancelling headphones
Ear plugs
Finding somewhere else to live (her, not you)

Yes it's a tough life being a medical student, she does need peace and quiet. However, if you are being a considerate NDN and she is still disturbed she needs to use/do one of the above list.

Crankley · 18/03/2021 15:10

thecatandthevicar
climb to the top of the door frame and drop down often I do shout upstairs - 'Are you OK?' - if she's playing in her bedroom. Or I call her from the kitchen, ‘Dinner’s ready!

you do sound a bit of a pain frankly.

No OP doesn't, it sounds exactly like normal living.

When I was younger I had a friend who had very acute hearing. Friends and I would be chatting in her living room and she would suddenly complain about the NDN's noise. We would all look at each other puzzled and she would be shocked that we heard nothing. She ended up wearing ear plugs most of the time at home.

How about suggesting that to your NDN OP?

Twoobles · 18/03/2021 15:12

She sounds unhinged, tbh. I wouldn’t apologise and I’d simply say there’s nothing else you can do. I wouldn’t give her a way to contact me, either, and any more letters would be going in the bin.

She can move if she’s so upset by it 🙄. If you were actually having parties until 4am she would have a point, but a 6 year old is hardly up blasting music past 12, are they? God help her if you move out and another family move in with teens is all I’ll say 😂.