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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Does this piss you off or AIBU?

642 replies

Besswess88 · 17/03/2021 22:18

Today in a shop I dropped something out of my pocket at the self service, I knew I had but before I had a chance to pick it up a kindly man behind me said “you’ve dropped your card darlin” (my age, mid forties).

I know in the scheme of things it’s not important but anyone else absolutely hate being called “terms of endearment” by absolute strangers, esp when they are men.

It’s that low level misogyny that just grates on me.

OP posts:
Nobody2u · 21/03/2021 15:50

That is absolutely not what I am condoning,and I can understand your point of view given your experience. Mine doesn't resemble yours in any shape or form. No one has ever invaded my personal space or spoken to me with the total lack of respect that has been shown to you. As I have said the Mediterranean Latin way of life is completely different from the British way of life. We wouldn't get a group of men leering and making the comments that have been made to you. I can only sympathise with you, it must have been very unpleasant.

Postprandial · 21/03/2021 17:03

@Nobody2u

I think we'll agree to differ. A quick toot on a horn, without winding down the winder or curb crawling might make you jump, but isn't in my book an agression. Why then do we have fashion shows and all the publicity that goes on around the perfect body, skin,and clothes sense. Women lap it up at all levels of society,and it's not just for their own benefit. Looking good makes a woman feel good, because first impressions are important, but the moment someone shows a sign of appreciation, all of a sudden half the female population feels agressed. There is a big difference between being hassled and the hoot of a car from a man/woman who then passes on his or her way. I will admit that some people find it a bit difficult to negotiate the line that separates one from the other.
You may, in your wisdom choose to feel flattered when Dave from Dynorod honks his appreciation as you're walking down the street, but please don't labour under the delusion that the rest of us are rendered breathless with gratitude that a fuckwit thinks he's paying us a compliment by blowing his horn. (No disrespect to Dynorod or Daves -- chosen purely for alliteration.)

'We' have fashion shows and 'all the publicity that goes on around the perfect body, skin and clothes sense' because there are several huge industries whose profits are based on making women feel bad about their actual bodies, and training up little girls to view adult womanhood as involving feeling bad about their actual bodies etc. The cosmetics, diet and fashion industries would crumble in the morning if women all woke up one morning thinking that, actually, they look fine as they are, and wearing the clothes they already own. That is why we have these industries, not because all women secretly hope their appearance gets a toot from Dave.

because first impressions are important

Yes, but do you really think that Dynorod Dave is hooting his appreciation of the well-fitting suit you're wearing to an interview? Or that you would regard his taste as infallible when it comes to first date wear?

but the moment someone shows a sign of appreciation, all of a sudden half the female population feels agressed

Well, you said it. Why do you think all these women should smile gratefully when what they actually feel is irritation at being harassed by some random who thinks his opinion matters, just because you think it's a lovely compliment?

Maybe ask yourself what people of either sex usually use their car horns for the HIghway Code says it should only be used to warn another motorist of danger, and that it's not intended to alarm others 'without viable or reasonable intention'. Even allowing for the fact that people do also use it to indicate irritation do you honestly think that most women view a horn suddenly sounding when they're walking along minding their own business as a lovely compliment?

Do you think Dave is likely to be silently appreciative of an older or overweight female runner he passes, or does he feel the need to let her know what he thinks of her appearance, too?

NiceGerbil · 21/03/2021 17:11

For me it comes down to the fact that I want to be able to go about my business without being reminded that random men are judging how sexually attractive I am. Whether they would like to fuck me, essentially.

Whatever form that takes- comments, beeping, shouting etc.

And of course many men feel moved to comment etc if they don't find you sexually attractive as well.

Or just to comment on whatever they feel like the that they have noticed. Hair colour, if you're very tall or short, if they judge your outfit to be too revealing for their appraisal of your level of sex appeal etc etc.

NiceGerbil · 21/03/2021 17:14

DH once asked why I never turned to see what was going on when a car tooted.

I said because I learnt young to try not to react (past jumping out of my skin if right next to me!).

He said what if they're warning about something.

I said well in my experience that's never what it is so I'll take my chances.

It wasn't until he said it that I even realised that's what I did, it was subconscious and automatic.

I've also a couple off times had stuff thrown at me out of cars. Memorably once eggs were thrown at me and my friend. One hit me on the head and it really fucking hurt!

greycloudysky · 21/03/2021 17:37

Imo, they aren't doing it to show appreciation for how sexually attractive you are. It's a way of reducing you to your sex and demeaning you in public, it's misogyny. 'Great tits!', 'Nice muff', 'Bet she likes it up the arse!' - aren't compliments. I believe catcalling was so bad in France and made women feel so uncomfortable, that on the spot fines were introduced.

ILoveSlipperss · 21/03/2021 17:48

.

Cassilis · 21/03/2021 22:31

I've also a couple off times had stuff thrown at me out of cars. Memorably once eggs were thrown at me and my friend. One hit me on the head and it really fucking hurt!

That’s awful, I’m so sorry that happened to you.

It’s escalation isn’t it? Women ignore toots / ‘alright love’, so they can’t just leave it there, they have to get your attention because their ego can’t bear being ignored.

I got called cunt for crossing the street a year ago by a man in a van. I’ve no doubt that the man would bave called me ‘darling’ in a different setting like a supermarket when he wanted to demean me eithout fear of repercussions.

bruffin · 21/03/2021 22:40

. I’ve no doubt that the man would bave called me ‘darling’ in a different setting like a supermarket when he wanted to demean me eithout fear of repercussions.
The man in the op was doing a nice thing, there was no reason to believe he was being demeaning.

Ineedcoffee2021 · 21/03/2021 22:42

@greycloudysky

Imo, they aren't doing it to show appreciation for how sexually attractive you are. It's a way of reducing you to your sex and demeaning you in public, it's misogyny. 'Great tits!', 'Nice muff', 'Bet she likes it up the arse!' - aren't compliments. I believe catcalling was so bad in France and made women feel so uncomfortable, that on the spot fines were introduced.
In aus catcalling can be reported too, generally started after women got sick of workmen on construction sites whistling, calling out, then abusing when they ignored.

I remember as a 12 yr old walking a different way to school when someone was building their house on the way i was walking, the workmen were so creepy and called out to any girl in a school uniform
Cars honking at a 12 yr old, screaming show us your tits/fancy a fuck
Ive had the double back cos i didnt respond calling me a rude fucking bitch

Cassilis · 21/03/2021 22:54

@bruffin

. I’ve no doubt that the man would bave called me ‘darling’ in a different setting like a supermarket when he wanted to demean me eithout fear of repercussions. The man in the op was doing a nice thing, there was no reason to believe he was being demeaning.
No, he wasn’t being nice. You don’t understand my point and I can’t be bothered explaining it to you.
bruffin · 21/03/2021 23:40

I do understand your point and it is totally irrelevant to the thread.

Cassilis · 21/03/2021 23:44

It’s inconvenient to you, not irrelevant, as you actually don’t give a shit about women’s experiences.

bruffin · 21/03/2021 23:50

Im a woman, im 58 ive had my own experiences, including a father who abused my mother, but it does women no favours to assume every time someonr calls another person darling that they are being patronising. Have a bit of common sense and look at the actual situation rather than project all the time.

bruffin · 21/03/2021 23:54

Look for the good in people,you might just be a happier person in the long run,

Cassilis · 22/03/2021 00:00

You are being really patronising bruffin. No surprise there.

NiceGerbil · 22/03/2021 00:31

Bruffin

A. OP was there and took it a certain way. Either believe she knows the difference, or assume she is wrong about how it felt. Essentially taking the side of a man over a woman you are virtually in conversation with, when you weren't there.
My dad does that all the time...

B. If women and girls 'look for the good' in all the men who do whatever (up to where your line the is) I think that will not end well in some circs. I have told my DDs that they do not have to be polite. That if some random bloke tries to engage them in innocuous conversation on the way home etc then get away. I suppose I should have told them to 'look for the good' in those situations...

Tbh when I was young and nervous I would smile and respond and be polite and things would usually get increasingly uncomfy for me.

Also. The OP didn't say anything to him. She's mentioned it on here. She didn't tell him off or anything so what's the problem exactly. Her thoughts and feelings are Wrong? Ok.

Tinkerbell456 · 22/03/2021 04:28

I don’t think it’s actually misogynistic. Condescending yes. He was only trying to do a nice thing I think. Very mildly irritating at worst.

Postprandial · 22/03/2021 05:29

@Tinkerbell456

I don’t think it’s actually misogynistic. Condescending yes. He was only trying to do a nice thing I think. Very mildly irritating at worst.
He could ‘do a nice thing’ without addressing the person he was doing it for at all. The one doesn’t require the other. And as has been pointed out multiple times, men having an interaction of any kind with a fellow male manage not to call him ‘darling’ or ‘love’. It can’t be that hard.
Londonnight · 22/03/2021 06:16

It wouldn't bother me at all. I would have just said thank you very much.

Nobody2u · 22/03/2021 06:19

Are men allowed to open doors or carry heavy bags for women? Or is that condescending as well? That poor chap at the supermarket, if he only knew how much pent up anger was being vented on here because of his use of the word "darlin" when all he wanted was to be kind, I think he'd be mortified!
If boys are brought up to learn that it's o.k to say "get your tits out" and girls without enough self confidence to accept the use of the word "darlin" is not always intended to be condescending then parents have a lot to answer for!

TwoLeftSocksWithHoles · 22/03/2021 07:31

@Postprandial

And as has been pointed out multiple times, men having an interaction of any kind with a fellow male manage not to call him ‘darling’ or ‘love’.

If you worked in the entertainment business (theatre, films, TV) you would know that this just isn't true! Grin

derxa · 22/03/2021 07:40
Hmm
Nobody2u · 22/03/2021 07:54

Or in France where men were allowed pre Covid to kiss each other to say hello and call any women ma chérie or man mon chéri simply because they can't remember for the life of them what the person in front of them is called!!

Postprandial · 22/03/2021 08:01

[quote TwoLeftSocksWithHoles]@Postprandial

And as has been pointed out multiple times, men having an interaction of any kind with a fellow male manage not to call him ‘darling’ or ‘love’.

If you worked in the entertainment business (theatre, films, TV) you would know that this just isn't true! Grin[/quote]
I hear you. Grin But I meant on the street, between male strangers, not in a specific industry with its own norms.

@Nobody2u, I’m most amused to see that you consider women accepting being called ‘darling’ or being honked at by strangers a sign of ‘confidence’. That’s a lot of gendered weirdness you’ve internalised from somewhere. And clearly passed on to your daughters. Do you have sons, incidentally? Have you taught them to honk at women on the street? Have you taught them women like it?

I lived in France for years. If someone addressed me as ‘ ma chèrie’, I would remind them of my name. I have no idea why you think male social kissing has any relevance to any of this, though.

Nobody2u · 22/03/2021 08:13

I do and no I haven't, and No before you ask they don't. Maybe you call it gender weirdness, I just call it not worth getting upset about! Don't touch me, don't follow me, but as the old saying goes " sticks and stones......" I've brought up all of my children to be respectful, thoughtful adults, and to accept differences in all shapes and forms, but also to have enough self confidence to not worry about all these issues that seem to make you see red. And if as you say you lived in France for a number of years, either it was completely with an expat community, in the back of beyond with no social contact, or you spent your days putting everyone back in their places.