Orthodontist with reputation asking 13 what her issues with how her teeth look and are... She's blissfully unaware...

[SpringisSpinning]

Dd has an over bite, we've been reffered, waiting list for years but also told the treatment timing is critical, jaw growth.

With covid etc it's been challenging, anyway, finally get her in and have phone appointments etc.

Orthadonrist asking questions about how daughter feels? I say well she's only known what's she's know re teeth and cosmetically she's blissfully unaware of looks etc.

He then asked her this when we saw him... And again the last time "what is your problem with your teeth, what do you hope to achieve... How do you feel about now your teeth look."

He's actually got a reputation for being rude and I'm absolutely furious that instead of simply doing the treatment he's asking these questions.

The reasons I am upset is because dd is very comfortable in her looks, she's not one for pamper parties, make up, nails etc at all.

She's 13 and seems very happy in her skin. She's not into shaving legs etc and seems wonderfully un touched by this media on slaught.

So to couch these questions on looks me.also on terms of looks how she feels now.... And how self conscious she may feel at 16 are vastly different things...

And its not something I want to even talk about because then it sounds like she does have a problem!!

Those questions are certainly standard here in the US. And some of it has to do with managing expectations, which can be unreasonable. This is apparently not the case with your daughter, but the questions themselves are standard.

I would ask, though, if that orthodontist had a reputation as being so very kind and polite, would these questions have bothered you nearly so much? Sometimes our expectations of someone's behavior colors our reactions.

How did you get to the point of taking your dd to an orthodontist in the first place if you're terrified of her thinking there's a problem with her teeth?
Why does she think she's there?

I'm confused why you think your daughter will get a complex over this, especially since you say most of her friends wear braces, so she must realise it's fairly normal.

^^15SpringisSpinning

I expect him to do what ever he needs to do to check the brace that's it.

OP,

So you don't want him to have any discussion with your DD about how she feels about her treatment or is managing? At 13? I understand being concerned about social media influencing but wanting to stop the dentist discussing his treatment with his 13 yr old patient is a bit overprotective. Ask him if you are so worried why he is asking.... stop the fuming, your daughter is probably picking up on that more than anything he is asking her. I'm sure braces pros & cons are discussed amongst kids in school...probably lots of things said about appearance, discomfort, effect on speech etc. She is 13, perfectly capable of having an opinion on any aspect of it.

Just to be clear, these are not funding questions, they are orthodontic questions. The questions would be the same if you paid privately.

Really bad form to be posting about NHS clinicians on social media by the way. Most hospital trusts would investigate that. You should pass the social media thread onto PALs for them to escalate.

I've got three children who've had braces and they haven't been asked this. Three different settings, all NHS. They were referred by the dentist and were judged to be in need of a brace for objective, clinical reasons not because they claimed to be traumatised by their appearance. Mine get their adult teeth very early and so they were all youngish when they started treatment, and blissfully unaware of having wonky teeth.

I'm with you OP, I find this question more appropriate for an adult having purely cosmetic treatment rather than a child, and I would have been annoyed by it.

Haven't read the whole thread but find the comment above that it's up to the child whether they have treatment a bit bizarre. We as parents have to make some decisions for the good of the child. Neither of my sons would have been bothered about wonky teeth as 11 or 12 year olds but you can be sure that, as adults, they were glad I took them to the orthodontist...

Haven't RTFT, mostly just your posts, OP. I agree with you completely.

When we went to the orthodontist, I was worried that my daughter would be subjected to similar questions. I was relieved that her orthodontist literally asked her just once, at the initial assessment, what she thought of the appearance of her teeth. She looked at him rather blankly and said they looked fine to her! But she knew we were there to discuss functional issues, and aside from that one occasion, that's what happened.

In your shoes I'd have gone for a different orthodontist since this one has a reputation for a poor bedside manner. That is quite important. We asked all our friends for recommendations and this is one of the things I wanted to know. I guess it isn't easy to change horses in midstream now. Can you ring or send a message telling him she isn't unduly focused on her appearance and asking him to stop raising the issue when she hasn't mentioned it?

My daughter is about to get the braces off now after 2.5 years and is still not thinking about having a "perfect smile". She's just glad to be rid of the annoying braces, and looking forward to a chewy caramel!

There’s nothing at all wrong with those questions. My daughter was asked too when she was getting her braces. I think it’s all part of the assessment of whether they can get them on the NHS or not, i.e. how much it’s affecting their lives, but that’s just my theory. We had to pay unfortunately.

I suspect you may be the one with the difficult reputation if this is all it takes. An orthodontist asking about the appearance of teeth, eh? Incredible.

It doesn't matter what the parent wants, if the teen isn't prepared to cooperate and be fully on board with orthodontic treatment after full explanation and remember, usually some extractions will be part of this treatment, then it just isn't going to happen. No orthodontist is going to forcibly treat a teen for elective treatment. No dentist is going to forcibly extract a couple of permanent sound teeth either just because the parent wants it done.

If your daughter has had to be onwardly referred from a practice-based orthodontist to a consultant hospital orthodontist, then she will have complex needs. It won't be as simple as "just changing to another orthodontist."

@SpringisSpinning sorry YABU You seem to be aggressively against your DD receiving medical treatment that will benefit her long-term health because you are worried it might make her self-conscious?! Get a grip.

The orthodontist is asking his patient about her progress to assess her motivation to continue with an intrusive medical treatment. He is trying to make it positive. Would you prefer that he continually remind your DD about the risk of not having a brace and living with an overbite: damaged teeth, damaged gums with consequent gum disease and loss of teeth, chronic and acute TMJ pain, sleep apnoea, speech problems. And is this what you want for your DD?

One of the reasons will be to check that your daughter is motivated and will keep her teeth clean and look after her braces. A costly treatment to provide if your daughter doesn't look after her teeth. (perfectly standard questions)

My DB is a retired orthodontist, they do mainly work with this age group, it’s very important to talk to patients about what their expectations are and what they would like to achieve. Firstly to ensue there is not undue disappointment and to add balance to the discomfort of the treatment and wearing braces for a number of months.
Overbites are also an interesting dilemma, many of the most beautiful women in the world have slight overbites, and aesthetically they can be very attractive although still technically a flaw in the formation of the teeth. So it’s important to get the balance right between a perfect set of teeth and something that the patient is pleased with.
Involving the teenage patient (as well as the parent) in that decision making process is very important and ethically correct.
Interestingly my DB treated one of his daughters and not the other for their overbites. After family discussions about what they themselves wanted.

By the way my DB did mainly private work, so it was not in his interest to discourage treatments, but it was a duty of care to ensure the patient he was treating was fully part of the decision making process.

Isn't the point here that having an overbite that is untreated can cause quite significant health problems later in life - headaches, jaw pain, problems with jaw development, sleep apnea, sometimes it can affect speech (e.g causing lisp or other speech impediment - it did with me), it can make it harder to maintain good dental hygiene and therefore increase the number of cavities and the likelihood of gum disease.
The way the jaw bones form with an overbite changes the whole shape of the face - but in ways you certainly won't be aware of at age 13.
I had a serious overbite that took years to correct, it was never presented to me that treatment was optional or that it was a cosmetic procedure, but rather as something that was essential to have treated in order to avoid future health complications.
I think many of the posters are interpreting the overbite correction as a purely cosmetic procedure - in which case the questions make sense.
However, correcting a pronounced overbite is, as I understand it, viewed as necessary or desirable for the benefits to future health. In which case asking generic cosmetic dentistry/orthodontic Q's is pretty irrelevant and smacks of box-ticking - I can understand why the OP feel they may lead to self-consciousness in her DD.

Because at 12 it might not matter to her but at 18 it might well matter a lot.
I had a gigantic space in my teeth. When I saw an ortho at 12 I was not at all interested in my appearance and didn't give a flying fuck what my teeth looked like.
As it turned out, a brace wouldn't have done much for me, they could close the gap but as my bite was actually fine, the teeth would just have moved back to where they were apparently. I had very good straight teeth perfectly placed.... Except for the bloody big gap at the front.

By the time was 16, I loathed and detested the gap and I was stuck with it well into adulthood when veneers seemed to be invented.
Your teeth are right in the middle of your face. People look at your mouth when you talk. Unsightly teeth can really affect you and your self esteem and if they can readily be fixed at a younger age then it's the best thing for a child rather than a much bigger procedure as an adult.
Apart from anything else, cosmetic dentistry costs a packet as an adult, possibly way more then a lot of people can afford.

I’m really struggling to follow you, OP.

You have follow up to check all is OK. Does person ask about why your there, how do you feel about cast and bone healing, will it you cosmetically.... At every appt

By the way, it’s nothing like a broken bone, each time an orthodontic appointment happens there’s a slight alteration. The treatment is incremental. That’s probably why he continues to ask. Because you can never really predict how the jaw will react, just how it’s likely to react, so outcomes become clearer each time.

Also, the only one hammering home appearances is you.

I’m not even in the uk and these are totally standard questions. I was asked similar before orthodontic treatment. So we could established what I wanted to achieve and choose the best type of treatment. I actually went with a simpler treatment option as I was happy with those outcomes. I could have had much more invasive work done to achieve a “perfect” smile. I know plenty of people that have chosen very complex work over a long period of time to achieve what they were happy with. He just wants your daughter to be happy with the outcome and understand what can/can’t be achieved.

Op, I do worry that you seem overly anxious about this and it’s potential impact on your DD. It seems me checking out others opinions about this hospital orthodontist on SM indicates you were expecting issues long before all this started.
Maybe it’s because your other child has issues about their looks you are feeling over sensitive about your DD. I can understand you don’t want her to become overly self-conscious, but from some of your comments it does seem you are failing to allow her to have her own bodily autonomy. I understand you are wanting to protect her, but in so doing you are not giving her an opportunity to express her own views and feelings.
Do you feel she should not have been referred? It isn’t clear from your posts that you feel yourself whether the treatment is really necessary. By saying the dentist and local orthodontist referred her and they must think it’s necessary, you seem to be unclear yourself whether you think it is?
Maybe you could ask to speak to the orthodontist when your DD is not there to talk about your concerns and gain some understanding about whether he believes it is really necessary and whether the benefits are just aesthetic or a medical need. Just because there was a referral it doesn’t mean it is necessary. You could also discuss how you feel about protecting your daughter’s self-esteem. Work together with the orthodontist, your support through this treatment is also important.

I had work done at the hospital dentist. They went over the care plan at every appointment, they asked me what the ending was at every appointment, they asked how I was healing/what it looked like at every appointment. I had to sign the same consent form at every appointment.

@slashlover

I had work done at the hospital dentist. They went over the care plan at every appointment, they asked me what the ending was at every appointment, they asked how I was healing/what it looked like at every appointment. I had to sign the same consent form at every appointment.

They are actually obliged to do this as part of their hospital procedures. Telling you about the risks so you can give informed consent. However minor or non-invasive a procedure is, no treatment is risk-free.

It’s about weighing up the risks against the benefits, with a lot of orthodontics work most of the benefits are not health related, they are aesthetic, so consent and understanding likely outcomes or failures is very important. If a child finds wearing braces distressing or uncomfortable this has to be weighed up against how they feel about the ‘problem’ they have or how they may feel in the future. It’s not always easy to see those priorities clearly.

My DB (an orthodontist himself) said that it was often difficult to explain this to parents, they often wanted to be told it ‘was essential’ that their DC had the treatments he was offering and was asked what he recommended, he wasn’t permitted to do this. Instead he would offer I think if it was my child I would want to go ahead, but then explain some of the potential problems again just to be sure the parents understood before consenting.

Has your daughter shown any concern about these questions? Has she said is there something wrong with how I look? I think you making such a big deal of what is routine is likely to do more damage. If it's really that much of an issue for you then just speak to the orthodontist about it. Seems a big fuss over nothing.

My daughter was asked these questions. I didn't think twice about them. Chill out!