Orthodontist with reputation asking 13 what her issues with how her teeth look and are... She's blissfully unaware...

[SpringisSpinning]

Dd has an over bite, we've been reffered, waiting list for years but also told the treatment timing is critical, jaw growth.

With covid etc it's been challenging, anyway, finally get her in and have phone appointments etc.

Orthadonrist asking questions about how daughter feels? I say well she's only known what's she's know re teeth and cosmetically she's blissfully unaware of looks etc.

He then asked her this when we saw him... And again the last time "what is your problem with your teeth, what do you hope to achieve... How do you feel about now your teeth look."

He's actually got a reputation for being rude and I'm absolutely furious that instead of simply doing the treatment he's asking these questions.

The reasons I am upset is because dd is very comfortable in her looks, she's not one for pamper parties, make up, nails etc at all.

She's 13 and seems very happy in her skin. She's not into shaving legs etc and seems wonderfully un touched by this media on slaught.

So to couch these questions on looks me.also on terms of looks how she feels now.... And how self conscious she may feel at 16 are vastly different things...

And its not something I want to even talk about because then it sounds like she does have a problem!!

OP if your daughter is 13 she’s presumably entitled to some bodily autonomy and educated enough to have some thoughts about all this. Trying to keep her in the dark because she doesn’t shave her legs etc doesn’t sound like you’re putting her best interests first.

It is hard with things like this so I sympathise (approaching 22 months of braces with DD) but teenagers are not daft and have a lot of self-awareness. Your complaint does sound odd and a bit misdirected

And it sounds like your other dd would certainly need her expectation managed, and to be reminded each time!

Op what’s the point in this thread, it’s clear it’s irrelevant to you what the majority think, you’re adamant your right, so just hide the thread and crack on

Presumably because a lot of the answers seem to think this is just a cosmetic issue hence cosmetic questions. The point of referring an overbite is to assess it to understand first if its likely to become a health/physical problem and secondarily any cosmetic issues.

OP, May I gently suggest you let this one go. These are completely standard questions and perfectly normal, it makes you come across as a bit of a fool and slightly naive.

@SpringisSpinning

Asking at first appt fine, I understand that but at each subsequent appt?

I've got another dd who is very sensitive to her looks! She wouldn't like this at all

Yes because it's not a bam you're done treatment, it's a gradual one, so stuff is going to get asked again to see how she feels about progress etc.

I think because you’ve said she’s happy with her looks, confident in her own skin etc, she’ll be fine about the questions. If she were a highly sensitive child I can understand you might be worried about how she would take it, but you’ve said she’s fine, I think maybe you’re thinking about your own insecurities at that age. She may find it difficult to answer if she’s never really judged herself in that way and maybe that’s why they keep asking because they don’t actually know what she thinks? If you make a big deal out of it she might even start to think there is something you’re trying to hide from her about her looks.

@SpringisSpinning

It's like saying to child.. Your arm is broken we need a cast You have appoint and get your cast.

You have follow up to check all is OK. Does person ask about why your there, how do you feel about cast and bone healing, will it you cosmetically.... At every appt?

No you just get the broken bone fixed?

Have you ever had a fracture?

It's important to ask a lot of questions to establish how the patient is healing, and feeling. For example, someone in plaster with sensations that imply blood flow problems might mean the cast needs refitting.

I've had two bone breaks and neither required surgery, but you don't just get "fixed". Our bodies are not car engines.

I think the orthodontist is questioning why your daughter is there? Perhaps he thinks the overbite isn’t too severe but he is checking to see if your daughter has any thoughts about it ie is it making her anxious, scared to smile etc.

He sounds like an excellent orthodontist.

@Thewiseoneincognito

OP, May I gently suggest you let this one go. These are completely standard questions and perfectly normal, it makes you come across as a bit of a fool and slightly naive.

Yes Also a 13 year old is a mature age

The ortho needs to be sure she is all right with all the procedures.

I spent several years in and out of plaster as an 11/12 year old. Every single time I had a new cast they asked how I felt about the cast, how I felt about the treatment, we tried different kinds of casts. I got to make decisions - which was a lot nicer than just being told I was getting yet another 6 weeks in plaster.

My DD has a brace, she is nearly 12 and very aware of what is right and wrong with her teeth. She also has very firm views on what should be done when and what can wait. She had a quite severe underbite that is going to need quite a lot of fixing. She also sings at a high level and there is a strong desire to avoid fixed braces to be balanced with the need for the underbite to be fixed.

We watched videos on Youtube on what the braces do, looked at loads of pictures so she can see what different results can be, and the orthodontist asks the exact same questions at every session. The NHS is paying for all her treatment and I'm very happy that they are involving her in the treatment - saves a load of nagging from me.

Have you honestly asked your daughter what she thinks? You seem to be rather controlling on her behalf - she's 13, not 3. Why do you want to make her a passive patient rather than an active participant in HER treatment?

@SpringisSpinning

My issue is multiple

I've answered these questions already, before treatment started.

She's been asked them whilst getting it fitted.
She's been asked again on routine check of the braces.

Is she supposed to start wondering.. What is wrong my jaw... Goodness yes.. It doesn't actually match up.. Look at that girl in that photo..yes mine is different isn't it... And start comparing herself??

Why draw unnecessary attention to it!

A dentist abdLocal and

Sorry if I’ve misunderstood but it sounds like you’ve not actually discussed with your daughter the reasons for her treatment? If that’s the case don’t you feel that’s wrong and that you should have explained the purpose of it, reason for doing it and what is hoped will be achieved?

Having been through years of orthodontic treatment with my children (removable twin blocks / train tracks) I think it’s really important that they understand what the point of it all is as it will be uncomfortable and sometimes painful. You say she has a bad overbite so this would generally involve removable twin blocks to bring the jaw forward which is a long not massively pleasant process.

Braces also involve a lot of looking after so young people really need to understand and buy into the whole thing.

I don’t understand your issue with the questions the orthodontist is asking. Orthodontic treatment is a lot about the appearance of the teeth and it’s important that this is talked about clearly and openly.

Discussing the desired outcome from a long, unpleasant procedure which you have voluntarily chosen to do (I know you were referred but pretty much all dentists refer pretty much all teens - I could count on one hand the children in each of my children’s years who haven’t had orthodontic treatment). Choosing to do something but not wanting to discuss the outcome is really odd and tbh unwise.

We are also in our medical treatment and she's wearing a brace

Is it OK to draw young girls attention to deformity?

This is just so dramatic and OTT that I don't really know what to say...

PALS are there for real complaint about bad practice or when clinicians are rude & uncaring
This is not an example of the above.
Like about 10% of the population (or more!) I had braces for over bite &the dentist cross questioned me each time to make sure I complied & was willing to continue - the worst bit was the lisp -I didn't get a complex about it because it my dm treated it as an every day issue of growing up - dentist need to talk to your daughter about this & remind her to comply & check she understands why they are doing this.
What else do you expect him to do -op if you react & your dd sees you react like this she will get a complex - shrug your shoulders after her appointment & raise your eyebrows & say to her something like "doesn't he go on!" rather than come out fuming -please for her sake

Can't you ask his secretary/receptionfor a moment in private before appt & inform him of your concerns & ask why is he asking? Seems pretty standard initial questioning to me & I don't think any professional should just get on with treatment simply because referred, he'd need to make his own assessment which would involve discussion with a 13 yr old instead of just listening to parent.

I had braces 30 yrs ago & my son about 10 yrs ago altho not NHS...we had same questions around expectations, appearance etc. If she just thinks her jaw formation, then that's the answer she will give. But she must be made aware that it will change her appearance also.

If your DD is oblivious to peer pressure, sm etc, that's great. But not all are. And some who are oblivious themselves may have parents pushing for treatments. Plus if NHS he has obligations in relation to taxpayer funding. It could be for any of these reasons. Just send email to his secretary/rooms & ask for a moment of his time. Surely you can reinforce positive messaging yourself.

Oh crumbs that's interesting, what sort of u tube videos? Before and after?

What sort of pictures?

I'd be worried that going that far would make a big deal of it?

All her friends have teeth straight braces and to be honest I've never noticed a single issue with their teeth. I couldn't say why they've had this free Treatment.

My dd jaw is however quite obvious.

I'd be reluctant to go into it much at this stage when maybe this treatment will work.

I mean... How does slightly protruding teeth affect someone's or slightly twisted teeth? A small jaw as pp said can actually Trigger more serious issues.

It's not something at this moment I'd want to go into with u tube and photos And make it into a thing.

The feeling questions aren't just about looks. I had some crowding wonkiness corrected. Not so much over or under bite as couldn't bite as teeth were pointing in all directions. It was reaching a point where I had incisors wearing and cracking. Even in the 80s when consent wasn't particularly being sought, my dentist checked that I was comfortable with every adjustment.

I expect him to do what ever he needs to do to check the brace that's it.

[quote DIshedUp]@bluebellscorner you won't get facial asymmetry because you don't have orthodontic treatment.

Even if someone has a major skeletal discrepancy needing surgery it's still down to patient motivation. If someone is happy with their teeth and has no functional issue or is managing their functional issues then there's no reason to have surgery.

Orthondics is massively down to compliance, the orthodontist maybe able to correct the malocclusion but the hard work is lifelong wear of a retainer, plus patient maintenance. If someone isn't bothered then they are less likely to wear their retainer, its a waste of time for all involved if the patient does not want orthodontic treatment. And at the end of the day its the DDs choice[/quote]
I had to google to confirm what I was told as a child - luckily I wasn’t misinformed. Certain issues can lead to assymetry unless they are corrected, my issue was more to do with the molars

My 16 year old self thanked my 12 year old self for doing it.

Would you rather your daughter go through several years of pain and potential bullying/name calling to come out with teeth she hated

Seems perfectly normal to me

However I appreciate the replies.

It's interesting that at every appt people feel it's standard to ask what they hope it achieves...

As I said on sm media this man has a reputation.... So it's interesting to see what other people's experience is.asking if its comfortable. M fits OK. Yes. But re asking them about their feelings on looks.. No.

We are in Aus and were asked the same questions.
There is a lot of maintenance with braces- wires cutting into the cheek, sore teeth (initially), extra care when cleaning, regular appointments.
The wearer has to be on board otherwise the treatment will not be straightforward/may cause other problems if they do not want to follow instructions.

it is all part of the treatment. it sounds like you are too sensitive and yet it is all medically required
(and we have to pay for braces, so not funding issues)

It sounds like it’s to do with funding OP but I do agree with you that it is horrible for your DD. I had a huge overbite and had NHS orthodontics to correct it (approx 20 years ago though!) and no one asked me those questions. An untreated overbite causes a whole host of dental health issues and that should be all the justification required for it to be corrected.

@SpringisSpinning

However I appreciate the replies.

It's interesting that at every appt people feel it's standard to ask what they hope it achieves...

As I said on sm media this man has a reputation.... So it's interesting to see what other people's experience is.asking if its comfortable. M fits OK. Yes. But re asking them about their feelings on looks.. No.

So if you think he’s got a bad reputation and it’s all over social media (??!?) why on earth did you take your daughter to this orthodontist? Yes you were referred but why didn’t you ask for a different referral?

I genuinely think you need to sit down with your daughter and discuss exactly why she is having the treatment and what the aim is otherwise from her viewpoint you are essentially forcing unexplained processes on her for no apparent reason!

I am an NHS clinician (not a dentist) receiving referrals. About half the patients sent to me are discharged without treatment.

Some don't need it. Some need more expertise than I can provide. The most frequent reason patients are discharged is because they don't want the treatment. Sometimes, I think they've made the wrong decision, but in UK law the patient is the ultimate decision-maker on what care their receive. What I, the clinician, think is best for them is largely irrelevant.

It doesn't matter that your dentist thinks braces are a good idea and has referred her for them. It doesn't matter that the orthodontist thinks they're justified. Your thoughts matter, but only to a limited extent.

Ultimately, the decision on whether care is right for your daughter is hers. She is the one who has to wear the braces, keep them clean, and put up with the inevitable discomfort. She is the one who will have to go through the pain of surgery, if that ends up on the cards. She is the one who will have to wear retainers, probably for life. She is the one who will have to look at her changed face in the mirror.

Of course the orthodontist is asking what she thinks. It's her body and so her opinion is important.

Of course they're asking that each time. Her opinion may change as things go on. Or she may need reassurance if, part-way through, things are looking wonky and she's worried. The only way the orthodontist will know that is to ask.